Weekend Discussion Thread 3/24-26/2012

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  • #201
A "gay womanizer" (what is that) who sleeps around and has several women "on the go" at all times is also a pedophile killer?

A psychotic self confessed killer who continually changed her testimony did a"fantastic" job?

Very interesting theories................
 
  • #202
A "gay womanizer" (what is that) who sleeps around and has several women "on the go" at all times is also a pedophile killer?

A psychotic self confessed killer who continually changed her testimony did a"fantastic" job?

Very interesting theories................

Agreed, but this was also a woman that had a childhood of rejection and was actually hopeful, for the first time in her life, when she met Michael Rafferty. She allowed herself to feel with him and she ended up murdering (perhaps out of jealousy) and in prison.

Are we to belief that Rafferty was the victim? That's what the defence would have us believe ... that poor little Rafferty was led astray by the evil woman that never had a hope.

Rafferty hopes that he can pin this on the wayward teenager he befriended. I remember looking at the wedding photos on his private sites at the beginning of the investigation and thinking that he looked very comfortable with young children ... and thinking that he was associated with a missing murdered child of the same age. Rafferty told McClintic that he wanted the girls younger. I have no doubt that Rafferty is a monster preying on vulnerable women and children.
 
  • #203
Thank you Otto! That was a much needed pick me up! I've had John Lennon on my mind all day too :)
 
  • #204
Agreed, but this was also a woman that had a childhood of rejection and was actually hopeful, for the first time in her life, when she met Michael Rafferty. She allowed herself to feel with him and she ended up murdering (perhaps out of jealousy) and in prison.

Are we to belief that Rafferty was the victim? That's what the defence would have us believe ... that poor little Rafferty was led astray by the evil woman that never had a hope.

Rafferty hopes that he can pin this on the wayward teenager he befriended. I remember looking at the wedding photos on his private sites at the beginning of the investigation and thinking that he looked very comfortable with young children ... and thinking that he was associated with a missing murdered child of the same age. Rafferty told McClintic that he wanted the girls younger. I have no doubt that Rafferty is a monster preying on vulnerable women and children.
.

I think that played a role too. I for sure don't believe any of the other reasons TLM gave for why she killed Tori.

I really hope that MTR hasn't hurt any other children. My heart goes out to all those who knew MTR and have had to worry that he did something to their children. I can't imagine what that must be like. My heart goes out to anyone who has been hurt by either MTR or TLM.
 
  • #205
.

I think that played a role too. I for sure don't believe any of the other reasons TLM gave for why she killed Tori.

I really hope that MTR hasn't hurt any other children. My heart goes out to all those who knew MTR and have had to worry that he did something to their children. I can't imagine what that must be like. My heart goes out to anyone who has been hurt by either MTR or TLM.

In listening to the testimony, I understood that McClintic was saying that Rafferty was in the car sexually assaulting the child, the child was screaming alot, McClintic flash backed to her own childhood sexual abuse, and she then hit the child in the head with the hammer three times. Jealousy? I have no doubt that Rafferty was sitting back, after assaulting the child, doing nothing while McClintic (who thought she was Rafferty's girlfriend) murdered the child. I also have no problem believing that he fatally injured her before she was hit in the had with a hammer. This was a vicious attack on a child by both parties.

Rafferty did not have the same disadvantages in life as McClintic. There's no excuse for him to be involved with a child abduction, sexual assault and murder. He simply wanted to be there and do that and he elicited McClintic, a vulnerable woman with no values, to assist him.

The dynamics of this case are unbelievably horrible. Two depraved 20 something year olds that are more interested in self gratification than anything else lured a child into their clutches, raped and murdered her.

Rafferty was probably grooming children before he engage McClintic in his sick fantasies. After murdering Tori, he complained to her that the girls she brought to him weren't young enough ... he was not going to stop if he wasn't stopped by McClintic.

I just hope her mom can survive.
 
  • #206
In listening to the testimony, I understood that McClintic was saying that Rafferty was in the car sexually assaulting the child, the child was screaming alot, McClintic flash backed to her own childhood sexual abuse, and she then hit the child in the head with the hammer three times. Jealousy? I have no doubt that Rafferty was sitting back, after assaulting the child, doing nothing while McClintic (who thought she was Rafferty's girlfriend) murdered the child. I also have no problem believing that he fatally injured her before she was hit in the had with a hammer. This was a vicious attack on a child by both parties.

Rafferty did not have the same disadvantages in life as McClintic. There's no excuse for him to be involved with a child abduction, sexual assault and murder. He simply wanted to be there and do that and he elicited McClintic, a vulnerable woman with no values, to assist him.

The dynamics of this case are unbelievably horrible. Two depraved 20 something year olds that are more interested in self gratification than anything else lured a child into their clutches, raped and murdered her.

Rafferty was probably grooming children before he engage McClintic in his sick fantasies. After murdering Tori, he complained to her that the girls she brought to him weren't young enough ... he was not going to stop if he wasn't stopped by McClintic.

I just hope her mom can survive.[/QUOTE
]

I think that she will, she really looks like a strong woman, but her life will never ever be the same. I worry so much for Tori's family. I was actually worried when Rodney didn't speak to the media this week, wondering if he was having an especially difficult day, if it had become too much for him to bear. I don't know how he does it, and I admire him so much. I admire them all very much.
 
  • #207
IMO I also have empathy for the family of MTR who have to live with the legacy of his actions. What a horrible burden to be laden with trying to navigate your life with that albatross of a legacy around your neck. This is why "those types" of criminals are sooooo dangerous..they suck the life blood out of all those they come in contact with.IMO I think I would change my name than have to be linked to him.
 
  • #208
So is this what we are to believe: on Apr 8th MR apparently shows up at TLM's house after he originally tells her he is going out of town for the day. She convinces him to drop her off near the school because she is picking up a friend's child and tells him to park a fair distance away. TLM and Tori reach the car, Tori gets shoved in (per TLM's testimony) and MR doesn't have a moment of epiphany and stop things right then and there?????? They drive for 2+ hrs with that child in the car, stop at various places and still no clue on MR's behalf that things aren't right??? He could have dialed 911 on more than one occasion and left the phone line open for dispatch to hear conversations. Not buying that he's an innocent chump.

BTW An epiphany (from the ancient Greek ἐπιφάνεια, epiphaneia, "manifestation, striking appearance") is the sudden realization or comprehension of the (larger) essence or meaning of something.
 
  • #209
So is this what we are to believe: on Apr 8th MR apparently shows up at TLM's house after he originally tells her he is going out of town for the day. She convinces him to drop her off near the school because she is picking up a friend's child and tells him to park a fair distance away. TLM and Tori reach the car, Tori gets shoved in (per TLM's testimony) and MR doesn't have a moment of epiphany and stop things right then and there?????? They drive for 2+ hrs with that child in the car, stop at various places and still no clue on MR's behalf that things aren't right??? He could have dialed 911 on more than one occasion and left the phone line open for dispatch to hear conversations. Not buying that he's an innocent chump.

BTW An epiphany (from the ancient Greek ἐπιφάνεια, epiphaneia, "manifestation, striking appearance") is the sudden realization or comprehension of the (larger) essence or meaning of something.

So glad the jury is being taken to Mt. Forest. A reminder of who was behind the wheel of that car.

Does this look like a safe house to anyone?

remains-found-1.jpg

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/03/08/tori-stafford-murder/

or this:

guelph-opp-search-w190.jpg


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2009/07/20/opp-remains-body452.html

Video

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/669303--cop-s-hunch-leads-to-child-s-remains
 
  • #210
  • #211
  • #212
So is this what we are to believe: on Apr 8th MR apparently shows up at TLM's house after he originally tells her he is going out of town for the day. She convinces him to drop her off near the school because she is picking up a friend's child and tells him to park a fair distance away. TLM and Tori reach the car, Tori gets shoved in (per TLM's testimony) and MR doesn't have a moment of epiphany and stop things right then and there?????? They drive for 2+ hrs with that child in the car, stop at various places and still no clue on MR's behalf that things aren't right??? He could have dialed 911 on more than one occasion and left the phone line open for dispatch to hear conversations. Not buying that he's an innocent chump.

BTW An epiphany (from the ancient Greek ἐπιφάνεια, epiphaneia, "manifestation, striking appearance") is the sudden realization or comprehension of the (larger) essence or meaning of something.

http://www.canada.com/news/Tori+Stafford+trial+Rafferty+defence+goes+offence/6348070/story.html
LONDON, Ont. — The kidnapping and killing of eight-year-old Victoria (Tori) Stafford was planned by a rage-filled young woman who took the girl as collateral for a drug debt, the defence in Michael Rafferty's murder trial told court on Friday.

It was Terri-Lynne McClintic who lured the little girl, then went into a Home Depot to purchase garbage bags and a hammer and ultimately used the weapon to smash in the Grade 3 student's skull in a rural field near Mount Forest, Ont., alleges lawyer Dirk Derstine.

"I'm going to suggest that the abduction in this case was your idea, that you went and lured her in the car . . . and Michael thought nothing of it," he charged on McClintic's last day of cross-examination.

It was McClintic who "offered" the girl sexually to Rafferty, and when he refused her "gift," she told him to walk away so she could talk to Tori alone.

When he returned, she had killed Tori all on her own, said Derstine.

"I will suggest that Rafferty came back after the death and was horrified but helped you clean up."
 
  • #213
good morning everyone
Just wanted to stop in and catch up before it starts again.

ETA - In my opinion, at this point MR has more then enough resonable doubt to be found not guilty from the proceedings thus far.

Physcial Evidence and DNA is going to be the case, as i could see the defences senerio and believe it.
 
  • #214
good morning everyone
Just wanted to stop in and catch up before it starts again.

ETA - In my opinion, at this point MR has more then enough resonable doubt to be found not guilty from the proceedings thus far.

Physcial Evidence and DNA is going to be the case, as i could see the defences senerio and believe it.

Good morning to you as well.

I agree. But I have issues with the alternate scenario and I think that MTR's behavior after the arrest and other interactions with LE that we have yet to learn about will be very important to the Crown's case as well.
 
  • #215
Please note the MOO at the bottom of my post. HTH :seeya:
From your post:

Originally Posted by dilbert
If he's anything like the "wimpy coward" that many here claim him to be, it doesn't surprise me that he tried to hide his involvement. TLM could have threatened him and his family if he said anything, it's been proven in court, through her previous writings, that she had the means to find the names and addresses of witness that were responsible for putting her in juvie. Who's to say she wouldn't do that again and actually follow through, after all, she had already bashed in the skull of an 8yr old, it wouldn't be much harder for her to make a few calls and have one of her "Crips" buddies make a home visit to MR's mom.

I agree it was stupid of him to not go to the police, if it is in fact true that he helped with the clean up, but no one can say what they'd do for sure unless you have been put in those shoes, I don't care who you are or what you say. If you felt your family was threatened and wasn't the type to trust the police, you'd keep your mouth shut too.

MOO

My questions stand: Is there any evidence that MR felt his family was threatened and that he did not trust the police? Did we hear ANYTHING about this at all? HTH. JMO
 
  • #216
From your post:

Originally Posted by dilbert
If he's anything like the "wimpy coward" that many here claim him to be, it doesn't surprise me that he tried to hide his involvement. TLM could have threatened him and his family if he said anything, it's been proven in court, through her previous writings, that she had the means to find the names and addresses of witness that were responsible for putting her in juvie. Who's to say she wouldn't do that again and actually follow through, after all, she had already bashed in the skull of an 8yr old, it wouldn't be much harder for her to make a few calls and have one of her "Crips" buddies make a home visit to MR's mom.

I agree it was stupid of him to not go to the police, if it is in fact true that he helped with the clean up, but no one can say what they'd do for sure unless you have been put in those shoes, I don't care who you are or what you say. If you felt your family was threatened and wasn't the type to trust the police, you'd keep your mouth shut too.

MOO

My questions stand: Is there any evidence that MR felt his family was threatened and that he did not trust the police? Did we hear ANYTHING about this at all? HTH. JMO

Who knows what's to come, but when it comes to evidence of how MTR felt that would probably need to come from testimony given by MTR.
 
  • #217
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  • #219
good morning everyone
Just wanted to stop in and catch up before it starts again.

ETA - In my opinion, at this point MR has more then enough resonable doubt to be found not guilty from the proceedings thus far.

Physcial Evidence and DNA is going to be the case, as i could see the defences senerio and believe it.

Except IMO, think about this...MTR is on the audio tape saying he continued to date Amanda for one and half weeks AFTER "the girl went missing" ...remember Amanda's young daughter was BEST FRIENDS with Tori and Amanda was in very close contact with TM. On the audio tape MTR states that Amanda broke it off with him 1.5 weeks after Tori was missing because she had lots of problems..then started dissing TM..then states...you know its just all kinds of drama so you just cut it out....talking about him and Amanda splitting up. Now remember....Derstine suggests MTR WAS THERE cleaning up the murder scene (and we know what TLM said he was doing)...but he witnessed this dead child....and he is TELLING the police that he continued to go out with Amanda and hear all the DRAMA associated with her daughter's best friends disappearance and the family....until AMANDA stopped seeing him. Wow he sure had a front seat row to all the drama Tori's family was going through AFTER the murder that he was present at...:banghead: ya right and I have a nice icey spot in Florida perfect for your pet polar bear!
 
  • #220
So then I doubt this is the case re. him feeling threatened and not trusting police.

By the way, even with all the evidence against Paul Bernardo, his trial went from May 18th 1995 to August 31st 1995. Almost 3 months. Just like this case. JMO

http://www.canada.com/national/features/homolka/story.html?id=bab9c4c1-d0ac-4bbe-bd54-abdcc4096051

It sounds like there is a lot of evidence in this case as well.

Regarding MTR feeling threatened by TLM, if she made threats to him while she was in the detention facility they could have that on tape.
 
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