Weekend Discussion Thread 3/24-26/2012

[swedie]

Im interested in hearing about the cell phone usage at the rock pile. I wonder did they make a call...to whom, or was it used to take a pic, check bbm or send a text????

:goodpost: Pictures?! Oh boy!:shocked2:

 

[flipflop]

It's unfortunate you read it that way when I simply meant by my suggestion, it is a possible reason why anyone could or might have bully him. Just as we have discussed TLM chances of having FAS. I am not using it against her, just trying to figure out what makes these sick people tick. HTH. eace:

I believe it would depend on who teased him. I know I mentioned males in my one posts, but subsequently mentioned others meaning males or females. It is possibly little girls and adult women shunned him for his voice, no? That very well could explain why he chose Tori the little female. Maybe some answers will come to light during his trial, about his upbringing and background. We will just have to wait and see. JMOHO

The jails are filled with people who commit evil crimes. If we knew what makes these sick people tick and could fix them, those numbers would dwindle. Professionals have studied them and councelled them for years. Some have mental health problems, some have no common sense etc etc etc and some are just born evil JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

I'm just wondering why after the crime, MR continued to see TLM, visited her in detention, went to court with her, brought over plants and furniture to her mother, I might be missing stuff, now those are things he admitted himself in his interview... why would he continue to see her?

He said he had helped them out on occasion and driven them places. Perhaps the reason he stayed in touch is as simple as, since he hadn't ratted her out, he didn't expect her to throw him under the bus.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Quote:
Originally Posted by daisy.faithfull
What if, hypothetically, they had his sperm mixed with her blood?

Then his goose would be cooked. Then I doubt he would have pleaded "not guilty". Then there probably wouldn't even be this long trial. Then I would like to see his sorry butt rot in prison. But, that's JMO.

It's strange tho that TLM would make up the rape. Just her saying that he killed Tori would have gotten him a life sentence, why add the rape to that? It's difficult without semen proving rape after so many months of decomposition. Unless police have magical powers we don't know about

 

[antiquegirl]

Likewise, just because TLM says he raped Tori, doesn't mean he did.

I prefer to look at both sides of the coin. Think Guy Paul Morin, Steven Truscott, Kyle Unger, William Mullins-Johnson, David Milgaard.

ITA. Additionally, in spite of all the forensic evidence in the OJ case, he was acquitted. As was CA.

There's just no foreseeing how a jury will see evidence or how they will rule.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Quote:
Originally Posted by daisy.faithfull
What if, hypothetically, they had his sperm mixed with her blood?




It's strange tho that TLM would make up the rape. Just her saying that he killed Tori would have gotten him a life sentence, why add the rape to that? It's difficult without semen proving rape after so many months of decomposition. Unless police have magical powers we don't know about

I don't find it that strange. She had no idea if they would find the hammer that could prove who committed the murder. If she didn't want to admit that it was her idea, and/or that it was for a drug debt, she would need an excuse for why it happened. A pedophile sexual assault would be a readily accepted excuse. JMO

 

[dilbert]

My questions stand: Is there any evidence that MR felt his family was threatened and that he did not trust the police? Did we hear ANYTHING about this at all? HTH. JMO

And I still stand by my response. If I do not put a direct link or quote to back up my comments, and end my post with a MOO, :cowwhich means, my opinon only) similar to when you end your post with "JMO", then I am giving my opinion.

I understand this forum to be about speculating, that is what I was doing, speculating as to why someone would not go directly to the police if they were involved the way the defence is suggesting.

MOO :cow:

I hope that clears up any remaining confusion. HTH eace:

 

[antiquegirl]

Im interested in hearing about the cell phone usage at the rock pile. I wonder did they make a call...to whom, or was it used to take a pic, check bbm or send a text????

The possibility of there being photo and/or video evidence of the crime itself was widely speculated and discussed here after the arrests. Some people seemed quite sure that this had happened. FWIW, I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now. If the DNA on the gym bag was mentioned in the Crown's opening statement, I think this would have been, as well.

MOO

 

[Hello_Kitty]

I finally got up the nerve to listen to more of that interview with the OPP and MR today. Did anyone else find something odd about his voice? <modsnip>

I found it odd because his voice does not seem to fit his appearance. I was taken aback when I heard MR's voice. For someone who was known to be a ladies man or had many girlfriends, I wonder now if these women were actually girlfriends or just friends. My daughter has a male friend who is gay and he sounds very much like MR. I love the guy like my own son btw.

I also recall reading a post from way back, posted by someone who knew him (cannot recall who) she said her and her husband talked about whether they thought MR might be gay. I cannot recall if this same girlfriend or friend said MR did not really have any male friends, IIRC.

What I am getting at is, it would be beneficial to know if MR was picked on and teased by other males as a child or adult, for the way he talked, making him hatred toward others, giving him a complex, which could explain why he did what he is being accused of, abducting, raping and murdering Tori. Would be interesting to find out if this could be true. I could be off track and just questioning whether anyone else noticed something different about MR's voice. JMHO.

<modsnip>

I noticed that as well, however I have a friend who everyone though he was gay because of the way he talks, yet he dates women, I think it is just an affectation of speech.

Also, didn't one of his gf said he liked 'rough sex' and 'bondage'

 

[antiquegirl]

A little early perhaps, but just a friendly reminder: BURDEN OF PROOF

The defence does not have to prove that the accused was not involved in this crime. The burden of proof is on the Crown to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he was.

• the standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt is inextricably intertwined with that principle fundamental to all criminal trials, the presumption of innocence;
  
• the burden of proof rests on the prosecution throughout the trial and never shifts to the accused;
  
• a reasonable doubt is not a doubt based upon sympathy or prejudice;
  
• rather, it is based upon reason and common sense;
  
• it is logically connected to the evidence or absence of evidence;
  
• it does not involve proof to an absolute certainty; it is not proof beyond any doubt nor is it an imaginary or frivolous doubt; and
  
• more is required than proof that the accused is probably guilty &#8209;&#8209; a jury which concludes only that the accused is probably guilty must acquit.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_doubt"]Reasonable doubt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[swedie]

I noticed that as well, however I have a friend who everyone though he was gay because of the way he talks, yet he dates women, I think it is just an affectation of speech.

Also, didn't one of his gf said he liked 'rough sex' and 'bondage'

A former girlfriend described Rafferty as having aggressive sexual interests and a secretive personality.

"He never had any money and I would always pay for things," said Jennifer Etsell, a single mom in Hanover who met Rafferty through an online dating service in 2006.

"He started lying about things (and) he was always very secretive.

"I didn't meet any of his friends. He wouldn't talk about any of his past relationships."

His interest in what she called "rough sex" and bondage -- he became angry when rebuffed -- strained the relationship. She ended it after $2,000 disappeared from her bank account.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/05/21/9519881-sun.html

 

[dilbert]

And if MR's voice was that of a gruff biker, people would use that against him too, after listening to the audio. People will decipher what they want. JMO

Agreed!! Whether he sounds gay or not is irrelevant.

MOO

:welcome4::welcome::wagon:

 

[BorgQueen]

A little early perhaps, but just a friendly reminder: BURDEN OF PROOF

The defence does not have to prove that the accused was not involved in this crime. The burden of proof is on the Crown to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he was.

• the standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt is inextricably intertwined with that principle fundamental to all criminal trials, the presumption of innocence;
  
• the burden of proof rests on the prosecution throughout the trial and never shifts to the accused;
  
• a reasonable doubt is not a doubt based upon sympathy or prejudice;
  
• rather, it is based upon reason and common sense;
  
• it is logically connected to the evidence or absence of evidence;
  
• it does not involve proof to an absolute certainty; it is not proof beyond any doubt nor is it an imaginary or frivolous doubt; and
  
• more is required than proof that the accused is probably guilty &#8209;&#8209; a jury which concludes only that the accused is probably guilty must acquit.

Reasonable doubt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks for that!

In my opinion, MR is *probably* guilty. There has not been enough evidence presented so far that would prove that he is definitely guilty. This might change, and that change could go either way. :moo:

I would not want to be on jury duty. I can't imagine how difficult it is. Not only do they have to see all the horrible evidence, they then have to decide whether or not somebody should be put in jail. What if they convict somebody who IS innocent? What if they let somebody go who actually IS guilty (who then goes and does it again). This can not be an easy thing for anybody to deal with. Very high-pressure situation :moo:

 

[swedie]

The possibility of there being photo and/or video evidence of the crime itself was widely speculated and discussed here after the arrests. Some people seemed quite sure that this had happened. FWIW, I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now. If the DNA on the gym bag was mentioned in the Crown's opening statement, I think this would have been, as well.

MOO

I guess we will just have to be patient and wait until Chapter 11: The BlackBerry. The BlackBerry allowed police to track his movements April 8 and after. HTH

This trial could be like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get. :floorlaugh::doorhide:

 

[dilbert]

I guess we will just have to be patient and wait until Chapter 11: The BlackBerry. The BlackBerry allowed police to track his movements April 8 and after. HTH

This trial could be like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get. :floorlaugh::doorhide:

IMO, his Blackberry will only prove that he was in the area, with the defence suggesting that MR was there, then the Blackberry evidence doesn't seem so imperative anymore since TLM admitted she killed Tori, and I don't think the Blackberry evidence can prove a rape occurred. The DNA forensics will make or break this case.

MOO

:sponge:

 

[Tahorn]

MR is guilty for the company he keeps. TLM is a sick thing and I do not for one minute believe she allowed MR to mulipulate her. It is my opinion that she was looking for a way to control him ... He would be her puppet from that moment forward.

All I wish for is that the truth comes forward to give Tori and her family the answers the desperately need so the all find peace.

 

[antiquegirl]

A former girlfriend described Rafferty as having aggressive sexual interests and a secretive personality.

"He never had any money and I would always pay for things," said Jennifer Etsell, a single mom in Hanover who met Rafferty through an online dating service in 2006.

"He started lying about things (and) he was always very secretive.

"I didn't meet any of his friends. He wouldn't talk about any of his past relationships."

His interest in what she called "rough sex" and bondage -- he became angry when rebuffed -- strained the relationship. She ended it after $2,000 disappeared from her bank account.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/05/21/9519881-sun.html

<modsnip>

It's hard to know what to believe when people contradict themselves. They are not telling the truth in one or the other version.

I'd also like to point out that many, many couples engage in sex acts considered different from the norm. That does not make them either murderers or pedophiles.

JMO

 

[dilbert]

Here's a picture, a claw hammer. I think I read that TLM said she used both sides to hit Tori. Puts it all in to perspective and leaves me speechless, much like the dog in the microwave.

MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

I guess we will just have to be patient and wait until Chapter 11: The BlackBerry. The BlackBerry allowed police to track his movements April 8 and after. HTH

This trial could be like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get. :floorlaugh::doorhide:

Oh Swedie, my sweets .. ya gotta buy the ones with the pictures :woohoo:

 

[flipflop]

MR is guilty for the company he keeps. TLM is a sick thing and I do not for one minute believe she allowed MR to mulipulate her. It is my opinion that she was looking for a way to control him ... He would be her puppet from that moment forward.

All I wish for is that the truth comes forward to give Tori and her family the answers the desperately need so the all find peace.

I believe they are both equally guilty. They found each other and both of their evil thoughts made them a match made in hell. I do not buy the stories that the defence is cooking up. MR knew why VS was put into his car. I feel there is more truth coming out of TLM's mouth compared to what MR's team has said so far. I believe that the evidence coming soon will prove so.