Weekend Discussion Thread 3/24-26/2012

[Oldsoul2]

It's not like he was asked outright, "Did you do this?"

From the interview transcript :

"...back on the eighth (8th) of April two thousand nine (2009) and as part of our investigation we’ve bin interviewing all kinds of people and ah your name has has come up just as a person to contact now do you know anything about the case at all have you heard anything or..."

bin [sic] Really?

Anyway, it's left pretty wide open what information he might volunteer. The less accusatory the interviewer is, the more likely MR would have his guard down and let something slip. He's just one of hundreds being interviewed by a cop from out-of-town.

Alittle too late at that point IMO, that interview wouldn't have even transpired if he was innocent don't you think? LE knows very well you don't ask "Did you do it" and expect a yes i'm guilty???

 

[Kamille]

Afternoon everyone, just catching up but thought about the speculation on why/when he tried getting rid of his.

Personally getting rid of a car here is beyond simple, call a junk yard they will come out that day give you $100 and then tow the vehical away to crush it, as u sign a waver that the vehical is being demolished and will not be resold..

I have done this 2x in the last couple of years for my junker cars, 6 weeks had passed before questions even came into the pitcure about MR, if im correct.

Now why would someone who raped/murdered/kidnapped a little girl not go and quickly get rid of the vehical ( either burn, dump in a lake, scrap, sell ect ) asap not 6 weeks later and after detectives are on his radar.

I personally would be getting rid of everything from the night of a murder if i was going to hide it and try and not to get caught. ( Anyone who wanted to get away with murder i would think would act the same way ) right down to personal belonging on me and in a vehical i was in, I would no longer have in my possession anything from that night ( but then again i would never be in this position)

Anyways just some thoughts

MR wasn't exactly in the position to scrap his car. It's not like he had a job or any money to buy another one, even if it was another beater. And who would buy it with that makeshift paint job and no backseat? He probably would get more from a wrecker for it. Besides, he didn't think he had anything to worry about. TM was on the radar as the person responsible according to the press and TLM was holding up under questioning in jail.

Other than the car, it appears he did get rid of everything he considered to be evidence. And that car represented his freedom. It's all he had really.

It wasn't until the detectives showed up at his door that he started to worry. And that's when the panic set in but it was too late. He was arrested 4 days later.

MOO

 

[JayFriend]

Alittle too late at that point IMO, that interview wouldn't have even transpired if he was innocent don't you think? LE knows very well you don't ask "Did you do it" and expect a yes i'm guilty???

Yes, a little too late once the investigation has started and they've homed in on him. Of course, he has no way of knowing whether he's just one of hundreds being eliminated or a prime suspect. All he could do was hope and try to act innocent and not arouse suspicion.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

I don't think this has been answered yet. If it has, my apologies.

The sexual assault charges weren't laid until June 2010, which was the same month that the decision was made to forego the preliminary hearing and go straight to trial.


http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20120116/michael-rafferty-pretrial-begins-120116/



http://www.thestar.com/news/article/818177--michael-rafferty-suspect-in-tori-stafford-death-goes-straight-to-trial

Would it take a year to get DNA evidence of a sexual assault?

BBM

Wow a full year after Victoria was found and the gruesome twosome arrested! Does that mean they found DNA on Tori's remains or her T-shirt or that TLM again changed her story.

 

[BorgQueen]

What I would like to know is this:
If he is not guilty of anything (except, perhaps, obstruction of justice and accessory)... where is the back seat of the Honda? Why did he not help locate it? What would he have to lose if the evidence is not against him, but against TLM. Or even a third party who may have been driving his car while he was off doing something different (if we were to believe he was not even there at all).
The lack of the back seat tells me he has a lot to hide, and he probably is guilty of the charges against him. He knows where the seat went.

As for TLM, the fact that she knew how to describe the crime scene with such accuracy tells me that she had the time to study the place. She probably did walk away, as she claims. Yes, the woman is a major liar, but she doesn't always lie. Not everything she has said is a lie. There has been evidence presented that shows that she does sometimes tell the truth. In my opinion, her extremely accurate drawing of the crime scene tells me that she was telling the truth when she said she walked away. What was happening while she walked away? She claims MR was sexually assaulting the victim. This may or may not be true. Will have to wait for evidence to back this up, but it really doesn't look good.
I believe that when she walked away, she studied the area to make sure she remembered where Tori was left so she can direct police to her body. I think she intended to get caught. She is where she wants to be. She really has nobody and nothing on the outside. She has spent much of her life in detention. It is comfortable for her. I agree with the poster that said that it is possible that she wants to be designated a dangerous offender, so she can stay in prison for the rest of her life.
At what point did she decide that she wasn't going down alone? Why did she decide that she wasn't going down alone? Questions we probably will never have answers to.


All just my opinion, of course :moo:

 

[JayFriend]

MR wasn't exactly in the position to scrap his car. It's not like he had a job or any money to buy another one, even if it was another beater. And who would buy it with that makeshift paint job and no backseat? He probably would get more from a wrecker for it.

Cars and their VIN numbers are recorded and tracked in all transactions with recyclers. If he didn't have the car anymore when the plate number came up, police would know where it went and who owned it before that. Owning a car is practically like DNA.

 

[Oldsoul2]

BORGQUEEN: IMO I don't think TLM had a choice but to place him at the crime scene. His car was identified. She did keep her word that she would take the rap for the murder if in fact it was him but there was no getting around that he was there.

 

[Juris_Prudence]

I was just reading through the discussion and wondering if anyone has considered that MR might have been high on drugs when police conducted that audio taped interview with him? Could it be that he doesn't want to give the names of other people he knows in and around town and their contact details because maybe they're drug connections? Maybe they're dealers or users and he is afraid that if police check them out and discover this that they could end up being arrested for that stuff? I admit I haven't heard the audio of the interview yet but just so far in reading the transcript this is what I'm thinking. Maybe he was just really worried police would end up finding out about the drug use and drug connections. I was going to put the MOOing Cow emoticon up so you would all know this is my opinion / thoughts but I couldn't find it.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

I don't know why people would be surprised that MTR wouldn't suddenly confess during the interview.
Why would someone trying to cover up ANY involvement do that?

Of course he was going to maintain that he knew nothing about it. It is not like he could say........now that you ask me,I did happen to be there when it all happened........but it wasn't my fault.....and expect to walk away.

Even under the best circumstances for him........he was already guilty of numerous crimes.

However, I think it would have went a long way to help him if he had gone to the police when the crime was actually commited, at that point (if he really is innocent of everything) he wouldn't have been commiting any crimes, such as the cover up of a murder.

 

[jolady]

I don't know how much credit TLM should get for "confessing". She really didn't have much choice. She was caught on video abducting Tori, and she was caught on video buying the murder weapon. Agreed, she didn't have to confess to being the murderer (which she didn't initially) or lead the police to her remains, but she was not going to get off scott free. That is for sure. I don't think anyone believes MR is "innocent" it is just to what extent is he guilty. I think he was pretty naive if he thought his involvement wouldn't come to light. I personally don't read it as arrogance, his recorded interview sounded like a very nervous person, who wasn't making much sense. I think he thought as time went by that he would be clear but the tides definitely changed. I see him as being caught up in and an accessory to something he could never have dreamed of. His reticence to own up to anything is imo his naivety that it wouldn't come to this and probably his fear of the "system". He appears to be a grifter jmo and a drug user. He would not want to be on police radar. MOO

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Afternoon everyone, just catching up but thought about the speculation on why/when he tried getting rid of his.

Personally getting rid of a car here is beyond simple, call a junk yard they will come out that day give you $100 and then tow the vehical away to crush it, as u sign a waver that the vehical is being demolished and will not be resold..

I have done this 2x in the last couple of years for my junker cars, 6 weeks had passed before questions even came into the pitcure about MR, if im correct.

Now why would someone who raped/murdered/kidnapped a little girl not go and quickly get rid of the vehical ( either burn, dump in a lake, scrap, sell ect ) asap not 6 weeks later and after detectives are on his radar.

I personally would be getting rid of everything from the night of a murder if i was going to hide it and try and not to get caught. ( Anyone who wanted to get away with murder i would think would act the same way ) right down to personal belonging on me and in a vehical i was in, I would no longer have in my possession anything from that night ( but then again i would never be in this position)

Anyways just some thoughts

BBM

Maybe he needed his car to go find the other stuff to get rid of. Or maybe he was too vain to get rid of it.... or maybe if he got rid of it, his friends would wonder why he got rid of it... it would look alot more suspicious getting rid of it than not IMO. JMO

 

[Oldsoul2]

I don't know how much credit TLM should get for "confessing". She really didn't have much choice.

It's not about giving credit IMO, how often do criminals, guilty of a crime not try to get out of it even though sometimes evidence is stacked up against them?...not too often. This is pretty rare and I'm sure the jury will find that too.

 

[Kamille]

What I would like to know is this:
If he is not guilty of anything (except, perhaps, obstruction of justice and accessory)... where is the back seat of the Honda? Why did he not help locate it? What would he have to lose if the evidence is not against him, but against TLM. Or even a third party who may have been driving his car while he was off doing something different (if we were to believe he was not even there at all).
The lack of the back seat tells me he has a lot to hide, and he probably is guilty of the charges against him. He knows where the seat went.

As for TLM, the fact that she knew how to describe the crime scene with such accuracy tells me that she had the time to study the place. She probably did walk away, as she claims. Yes, the woman is a major liar, but she doesn't always lie. Not everything she has said is a lie. There has been evidence presented that shows that she does sometimes tell the truth. In my opinion, her extremely accurate drawing of the crime scene tells me that she was telling the truth when she said she walked away. What was happening while she walked away? She claims MR was sexually assaulting the victim. This may or may not be true. Will have to wait for evidence to back this up, but it really doesn't look good.
I believe that when she walked away, she studied the area to make sure she remembered where Tori was left so she can direct police to her body. I think she intended to get caught. She is where she wants to be. She really has nobody and nothing on the outside. She has spent much of her life in detention. It is comfortable for her. I agree with the poster that said that it is possible that she wants to be designated a dangerous offender, so she can stay in prison for the rest of her life.
At what point did she decide that she wasn't going down alone? Why did she decide that she wasn't going down alone? Questions we probably will never have answers to.


All just my opinion, of course :moo:

Very good point BorgQueen about his complete lack of assistance to LE to help figure out the "real kidnapper and murderer". That backseat, IMO, has all the evidence of the sexual assaults.

MR and his lawyer took the position with LE...prove it. They weren't getting any help from the "duped" defendent.

About TLM being able to give extensive information of the area. One thing that stood out to me was that she testified that she was told to go out to the road to watch for vehicles. She'd have gotten a really good look at that house while out there. No wonder she had so much detail on it. It would be hard to give that kind of detail just driving into and out of that laneway. If her testimony is to be believed, she had some time to study her surroundings.

I don't think her intention was ever to turn herself in though. If not for that CASS video, I'm not sure we would ever have known what happened to Victoria and who was involved in her abduction.

MOO

 

[AbbeyR]

Hi -- I haven't posted in these threads, but have been following Tori's case in the news since she first went missing. The trial news has been really shocking and so much worse than I ever would have imagined

Does anyone remember the Youtube posts that people speculated may have been made by Rafferty (and/or TLM) way back when Tori was missing? I read about it at the time on a Facebook page... There were a few pseudonyms, including Michol or mychol and another that may have been Mr. something? Sugarcrisp or something like that? (Gah, I can't remember!)

Anyway, there had been some strange comments, including a couple on news stories about the search for Tori, and someone had posted a link to the user's Youtube profile. While I think the speculation at the time mostly had to do with whether he had made comments about the search for Tori, the one thing that has always stuck in my mind was a music video that the same user had commented on. Since I can't remember the name, I can't point to the comment (though I think it was something totally innocuous), but I am certain this was the video, because it really gave me the creeps then. And even more so now:

Ladytron, "Ghosts" [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yaEwcmrR4Q"]Ladytron - Ghosts [Official Music Video] - YouTube[/ame]

I hesitate to post this, because it may be that this was just crazy facebook speculation, and it seems a little silly in any case, given all of the disturbing facts coming out at the trial. At the same time, if the rumor was true, those Youtube posts are just...creepy, and might offer a similar insight into MR's character/ mindframe that we are seeing being exposed through TLM's letters, etc.

 

[Kamille]

I don't know how much credit TLM should get for "confessing". She really didn't have much choice. She was caught on video abducting Tori, and she was caught on video buying the murder weapon. Agreed, she didn't have to confess to being the murderer (which she didn't initially) or lead the police to her remains, but she was not going to get off scott free. That is for sure. I don't think anyone believes MR is "innocent" it is just to what extent is he guilty. I think he was pretty naive if he thought his involvement wouldn't come to light. I personally don't read it as arrogance, his recorded interview sounded like a very nervous person, who wasn't making much sense. I think he thought as time went by that he would be clear but the tides definitely changed. I see him as being caught up in and an accessory to something he could never have dreamed of. His reticence to own up to anything is imo his naivety that it wouldn't come to this and probably his fear of the "system". He appears to be a grifter jmo and a drug user. He would not want to be on police radar. MOO

They had nothing but that video. And that wouldn't have gotten them anywhere without her confession IMO. They knew nothing about the HD etc. They got all of their evidence from TLM's story IMO.

But you're right. The only credit she would have deserved was to stop this from ever happening.

The credit should go to Jim Smyth for getting her confession.

MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

I don't know how much credit TLM should get for "confessing". She really didn't have much choice. She was caught on video abducting Tori, and she was caught on video buying the murder weapon

<rsbm>

Not giving TLM a lot of credit here, but she had the same option that MTR had ... lawyer up and plead Not Guilty. Had she done that, we might now be in another long trial with defence attorneys claiming TLM was in the video, but she and Tori parted in the area of the rest home .. and, oh yeah .. had to go to HD to buy a hammer to fix some things around the house.

JMO

 

[Tahorn]

<rsbm>

Not giving TLM a lot of credit here, but she had the same option that MTR had ... lawyer up and plead Not Guilty. Had she done that, we might now be in another long trial with defence attorneys claiming TLM was in the video, but she and Tori parted in the area of the rest home .. and, oh yeah .. had to go to HD to buy a hammer to fix some things around the house.

JMO

I honestly believe that she confessed once she heard that MR was seeing other women and denied his relationship with her. Hell has no fury as a woman scorned!

 

[Kamille]

Hi -- I haven't posted in these threads, but have been following Tori's case in the news since she first went missing. The trial news has been really shocking and so much worse than I ever would have imagined

Does anyone remember the Youtube posts that people speculated may have been made by Rafferty (and/or TLM) way back when Tori was missing? I read about it at the time on a Facebook page... There were a few pseudonyms, including Michol or mychol and another that may have been Mr. something? Sugarcrisp or something like that? (Gah, I can't remember!)

Anyway, there had been some strange comments, including a couple on news stories about the search for Tori, and someone had posted a link to the user's Youtube profile. While I think the speculation at the time mostly had to do with whether he had made comments about the search for Tori, the one thing that has always stuck in my mind was a music video that the same user had commented on. Since I can't remember the name, I can't point to the comment (though I think it was something totally innocuous), but I am certain this was the video, because it really gave me the creeps then. And even more so now:

Ladytron, "Ghosts" Ladytron - Ghosts [Official Music Video] - YouTube

I hesitate to post this, because it may be that this was just crazy facebook speculation, and it seems a little silly in any case, given all of the disturbing facts coming out at the trial. At the same time, if the rumor was true, those Youtube posts are just...creepy, and might offer a similar insight into MR's character/ mindframe that we are seeing being exposed through TLM's letters, etc.

I'm hesitant to respond to this because it's not regarding known evidence or information that we've heard so far but I sure hope that LE was able to get information from computers that MR was using to possibly tie in some very strange comments from a variation of his user name on several you tube videos, some regarding Victoria.

I didn't notice this in any of the chapters that the crown presented though so sadly, perhaps they either didn't know about this or they didn't find anything on it.


MOO

 

[flipflop]

I'm hesitant to respond to this because it's not regarding known evidence or information that we've heard so far but I sure hope that LE was able to get information from computers that MR was using to possibly tie in some very strange comments from a variation of his user name on several you tube videos, some regarding Victoria.

I didn't notice this in any of the chapters that the crown presented though so sadly, perhaps they either didn't know about this or they didn't find anything on it.


MOO

Chapter 6: The searches of Rafferty and McClintic's residences and the evidence found.

No mention of Computers, but computers could be something that was found in his home.

 

[BorgQueen]

RE: Youtube:

Chapter 6: The searches of Rafferty and McClintic's residences and the evidence found.

I would imagine that anything found on any computer at Rafferty's residence would be presented here. This would include anything found on youtube. If they found, in his history, that he was viewing videos about Tori, they would have went through the comments, and would have obtained the IP address(es) of the suspected account(s) that posted these comments to link them to MR. I suspect they found a lot of stuff on his computer, if he had one. Google searches, youtube, facebook, etc. Could be very incriminating. We will have to wait, though. And these comments may not have been from him. If they were, they WILL be brought up later on (Chapter 6).
JMO. :moo: