Weekend Discussion Thread 3/24-26/2012

[swedie]

MR wasn't exactly in the position to scrap his car. It's not like he had a job or any money to buy another one, even if it was another beater. And who would buy it with that makeshift paint job and no backseat? He probably would get more from a wrecker for it. Besides, he didn't think he had anything to worry about. TM was on the radar as the person responsible according to the press and TLM was holding up under questioning in jail.

Other than the car, it appears he did get rid of everything he considered to be evidence. And that car represented his freedom. It's all he had really.

It wasn't until the detectives showed up at his door that he started to worry. And that's when the panic set in but it was too late. He was arrested 4 days later.

MOO

Sorry if this has been suggested as of late, just came on and haven't caught up reading yet. MR was more than likely contacting wreckers to see if anyone had a backseat he could get, to replace the blood stained one he disposed of. I wouldn't be surprise to learn if he also had plans to do another one of his amateur, fancy paint jobs. Thankfully he was arrested before he had the chance. It would be interesting to know if LE looked in his car before or after they showed up at his door on May 15, and noticed there was a backseat with holes cut in it. LE seems pretty adamant there was a backseat during the abduction, sexual assault and murder. I am sure they also have TLM's word on that also, but will be interesting to know what they knew about MR's car on May 15th. JMHO

 

[BorgQueen]

I wonder if they ever found the pieces from the seat that were allegedly thrown out the window by TLM as she cut them out...


:moo:

 

[Kamille]

Sorry if this has been suggested as of late, just came on and haven't caught up reading yet. MR was more than likely contacting wreckers to see if anyone had a backseat he could get, to replace the blood stained one he disposed of. I wouldn't be surprise to learn if he also had plans to do another one of his amateur, fancy paint jobs. Thankfully he was arrested before he had the chance. It would be interesting to know if LE looked in his car before or after they showed up at his door on May 15, and noticed there was a backseat with holes cut in it. LE seems pretty adamant there was a backseat during the abduction, sexual assault and murder. I am sure they also have TLM's word on that also, but will be interesting to know what they knew about MR's car on May 15th. JMHO

Checking with wreckers to find a backseat could be just what he was doing swedie. He knew that LE had already seen the car in his driveway, it was mentioned in that interview.

According to his friend and his girlfriend who were posting on here at the beginning of the case, the backseat was missing within a couple of weeks of the abduction.

I believe his friend Wendell indicated that it was not there on May 7th when she saw him for the first time after the abduction. And his girlfriend never knew the car to have a backseat.

Remember that is bench only. The back of the seat was still intact.

MOO

 

[maxfactor]

Sorry if this has been suggested as of late, just came on and haven't caught up reading yet. MR was more than likely contacting wreckers to see if anyone had a backseat he could get, to replace the blood stained one he disposed of. I wouldn't be surprise to learn if he also had plans to do another one of his amateur, fancy paint jobs. Thankfully he was arrested before he had the chance. It would be interesting to know if LE looked in his car before or after they showed up at his door on May 15, and noticed there was a backseat with holes cut in it. LE seems pretty adamant there was a backseat during the abduction, sexual assault and murder. I am sure they also have TLM's word on that also, but will be interesting to know what they knew about MR's car on May 15th. JMHO

Very good point Swedie!!!! They really must have got a shock when they pulled up to his house and saw the car sitting there, with the poorly done paint job and the dash whitewashed, too bad they didn't have enough to take him in that day. Sounds like they looked for him all weekend.

 

[flipflop]

Sorry if this has been suggested as of late, just came on and haven't caught up reading yet. MR was more than likely contacting wreckers to see if anyone had a backseat he could get, to replace the blood stained one he disposed of. I wouldn't be surprise to learn if he also had plans to do another one of his amateur, fancy paint jobs. Thankfully he was arrested before he had the chance. It would be interesting to know if LE looked in his car before or after they showed up at his door on May 15, and noticed there was a backseat with holes cut in it. LE seems pretty adamant there was a backseat during the abduction, sexual assault and murder. I am sure they also have TLM's word on that also, but will be interesting to know what they knew about MR's car on May 15th. JMHO

With MR's car being seen on the surv.video going past the school on April 8th, they would have taken a good note of his car in the driveway on the day of the interview, Im sure.

 

[Wondergirl]

Afternoon everyone, just catching up but thought about the speculation on why/when he tried getting rid of his.

Personally getting rid of a car here is beyond simple, call a junk yard they will come out that day give you $100 and then tow the vehical away to crush it, as u sign a waver that the vehical is being demolished and will not be resold..

I have done this 2x in the last couple of years for my junker cars, 6 weeks had passed before questions even came into the pitcure about MR, if im correct.

Now why would someone who raped/murdered/kidnapped a little girl not go and quickly get rid of the vehical ( either burn, dump in a lake, scrap, sell ect ) asap not 6 weeks later and after detectives are on his radar.

I personally would be getting rid of everything from the night of a murder if i was going to hide it and try and not to get caught. ( Anyone who wanted to get away with murder i would think would act the same way ) right down to personal belonging on me and in a vehical i was in, I would no longer have in my possession anything from that night ( but then again i would never be in this position)

Anyways just some thoughts

BBM: From what I have read, MTR and his Civic were as one. That was his baby. For him to up and get rid of it, especially while LE was on the hunt for certain vehicles, MAY have alerted a friend or loved one as to his suspicious behavior. He loved that car.

JMO

 

[Sailor Bug]

-"Listen carefully to the DNA evidence. It will tell you a lot," Gowdey said.

-Police seized his vehicle and found evidence of Tori's blood on the rear passenger door moulding. Blood found on a Goodlife fitness bag inside the car was a mixture of Tori and Rafferty's blood.

http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/2012/03/05/tori-stafford-murder-trial-gets-underway

 

[JayFriend]

Sorry if this has been suggested as of late, just came on and haven't caught up reading yet. MR was more than likely contacting wreckers to see if anyone had a backseat he could get, to replace the blood stained one he disposed of.

Good point. I'm surprised he didn't find one because they should be plentiful. However, maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought I read he was searching wreckers for a new car.

 

[swedie]

I honestly believe that she confessed once she heard that MR was seeing other women and denied his relationship with her. Hell has no fury as a woman scorned!

:woohoo: If that was the case, thank goodness for a woman scorned. JMHO. As much as I loathe TLM, I'm elated she had some decency to help LE to bring Tori home and capture the instigator of this case. JMHO again. :rocker:

 

[Sailor Bug]

Pg 27 0f 44 Rafferty's transcript with OPP
http://www.scribd.com/doc/86510694/TRANSCRIPT-Michael-Rafferty-interview-with-OPP-2009-05-15

Rafferty: I'm like her...
Detective says: like her real mother ?

Above talking about TLM

AUDIO PODCAST: Michael Rafferty is interviewed by OPP Det. Colin Darmon and Det. Con. Gord Johnson on May 15, 2009 as part of the investigation into the disappearance of Tori Stafford.
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/23/19542366.html

 

[Juris_Prudence]

This is a bit off topic, but you guys might find it interesting anyhow.

This is an article about the rap artist Necro who TLM apparently was a fan of. The article outlines his thoughts regarding this case,

"I see I am being mentioned in this big Canada murder trial," Necro tweeted and wrote on his official Facebook page Friday. "I wasn't gonna say anything but it seems a lot of fans want me to address this."

"My condolences to the family for their loss. I do not support that act and never promote my fans to do that," he said. "I do not support the killing of kids. I love children and feel they should be protected and loved and cared for, especially when they are your family."

Necro said indie artists — without the money of big-budget record labels — are usually used as scapegoats.

"And if you are gonna attack musicians then you gotta attack movies which are more visual," he said.

"I am not responsible for the bad parents and s----y school systems and governments of the world. Teach your kids and show them love," he wrote.

"You can't blame someone that creates violent music when the world has been violent since it started, war after war," he said. "I just reflect the reality in my music."

Read more: http://www.canada.com/news/rapper+d...murder+trial/6351714/story.html#ixzz1qGWIhTfP

 

[flipflop]

Pg 27 0f 44 Rafferty's transcript with OPP
http://www.scribd.com/doc/86510694/TRANSCRIPT-Michael-Rafferty-interview-with-OPP-2009-05-15

Rafferty: I'm like her...
Detective says: like her real mother ? Above talking about TLM

AUDIO PODCAST: Michael Rafferty is interviewed by OPP Det. Colin Darmon and Det. Con. Gord Johnson on May 15, 2009 as part of the investigation into the disappearance of Tori Stafford.
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/23/19542366.html

Is he comparing himself to Carol? hmmmmm

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Welcome to Tori's forum Juris Prudence and AbbeyR!

 

[daisy.faithfull]

-"Listen carefully to the DNA evidence. It will tell you a lot," Gowdey said.

-Police seized his vehicle and found evidence of Tori's blood on the rear passenger door moulding. Blood found on a Goodlife fitness bag inside the car was a mixture of Tori and Rafferty's blood.

http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/2012/03/05/tori-stafford-murder-trial-gets-underway

That little bit from the Crown's opening statements really worries me because it makes me wonder if that is the only biologal forensic evidence they have from the car and possibly the crime scene itself.

 

[dilbert]

Is he comparing himself to Carol? hmmmmm

You have to put what MR is saying in context, MR and cop are speaking over each other at times, read the next sentence after the cop;

Cop: that’s sounds like maybe Terri-Lynne then has opened up toyou as a friend then and told you about her mom

MR: I'm like her

Cop: like her real mother

MR: well I’m the only person she knows who doesn’t do drugs ordoesn’t you know I’m not in that group of people I guess

So, I think it's something more like; "I'm like her, well I'm the only person she knows who doesn't do drugs or doesn't, you know, I'm not in that group of people I guess."

Meaning, he's the only person TLM knows that doesn't do drugs or is not in her regular group of druggie friends.

pg.27 http://www.scribd.com/doc/86510694/TRANSCRIPT-Michael-Rafferty-interview-with-OPP-2009-05-15

MOO

 

[AbbeyR]

Pg 27 0f 44 Rafferty's transcript with OPP
http://www.scribd.com/doc/86510694/TRANSCRIPT-Michael-Rafferty-interview-with-OPP-2009-05-15

Rafferty: I'm like her...
Detective says: like her real mother ?

Above talking about TLM

AUDIO PODCAST: Michael Rafferty is interviewed by OPP Det. Colin Darmon and Det. Con. Gord Johnson on May 15, 2009 as part of the investigation into the disappearance of Tori Stafford.
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/23/19542366.html

I believe the Detective said:
That’s sounds like maybe Terri-Lynne then has opened up to you as a friend then and told you about her mom [pause, then clarifies] like, her real mother.

Rafferty says: I'm like, her- [interrupted by detective, so overlap with "like her real mother" , then continues:] well, I’m the only person she knows who doesn’t do drugs or doesn’t you know I’m not in that group of people I guess. [punctuation added by me]

(page 27 of transcript)

Thank you, Daisy F.!

 

[ChaChaCha]

That little bit from the Crown's opening statements really worries me because it makes me wonder if that is the only biologal forensic evidence they have from the car and possibly the crime scene itself.

Had lunch with a friend today and was discussing the forensic evidence. She brought up a great point, and was really doubtful too that the Crown has much more DNA evidence than two types of blood identified as being on the gym bag. The term "mixture" is a strange one - to my mind mixture means "combination" like a cake batter. I think that the Crown may have used the word "mixture' for its effect on the jury so that they form in their minds that bliood from each party was mixed with that of the other. We will not know until the forensics report comes in if perhaps TS blood was found on the outside of the bag, and blood from MR found in a different place on the bag? Or the amount of blood found from each donor? In any case, with all the pulling and shoving of clothes and shoes in and out of the gym bag (if what TLM said is true) then transference is always an option. It may well be that while LE found the gym bag in the "back" of MR's car (since there was no back seat) that the bag would normally have resided in the trunk of that car. TLM never did mention anything about a gym bag being back there - only water bottles. What if MR cut himself taking out the backseat and some of this blood got on the gym bag at that time??? Now if the Crown had noted that two types of blood were found on each of the gym bag and the black coat, I might be more convinced that there was additional forensic evidence to be seen.

I do not think that too much evidence by way of DNA etc would have been found on TS' remains (the poor baby!) ... it was way too long til she was found. The length of time also makes me doubt that there will be any evidence of sexual abuse as TLM described or semen.

JMO

 

[AbbeyR]

Oops, cross-posted with Dilbert.

I just read through that last part of the transcript. This part is rich:

Rafferty tells story about a guy with bloodshot eyes coming up to him in Canadian tire and asking about TLM, saying it "threw him for a whirlwind". He continues:

You know, the guy was scary enough. I mean everybody in this town is -- no offence, like- well- you’re not from here -- The people here are pretty scary

(punctuation added, p. 40)

:aktion1:

 

[ChaChaCha]

Oops, cross-posted with Dilbert.

I just read through that last part of the transcript. This part is rich:

Rafferty tells story about a guy with bloodshot eyes coming up to him in Canadian tire and asking about TLM, saying it "threw him for a whirlwind". He continues:

(punctuation added, p. 40)

:aktion1:

LMAO! Didn't TM say too about Carol that she was all wierd and "twitchy'? No wonder she didn't want to breed her dog with theirs ... goodness knows what the result would have been. Oh My!!!

 

[flipflop]

You have to put what MR is saying in context, MR and cop are speaking over each other at times, read the next sentence after the cop;



So, I think it's something more like; "I'm like her, well I'm the only person she knows who doesn't do drugs or doesn't, you know, I'm not in that group of people I guess."

Meaning, he's the only person TLM knows that doesn't do drugs or is not in her regular group of druggie friends.

pg.27 http://www.scribd.com/doc/86510694/TRANSCRIPT-Michael-Rafferty-interview-with-OPP-2009-05-15

MOO

Thanks Dilbert, I read the post, not the link...thanks for the clarification!!!