Welcome our Chemist to Websleuths/Syringe in bottle and traces of chloroform #3

[cecybeans]

...think we're in violent agreement 'bout trunk cleaning, Harmony. No real, concerted effort put into cleaning the trunk. Removing some items...may or may not have been vacuumed, etc. In spots maybe...maybe not. No huge conspiracy IMHO.

Re: homemade chloroform. I certainly understand the case you're making...and the context of the CSI notes. IMHO, it doesn't hurt the SA that the notes are written this way IYKWIM. I kinda read it like a convenient statement of fact. But will be happy to eat my hat if/when we get more Casey-the-chemist info. No secret that I'm predispositioned to not seeing Casey put forth that kinda effort...even a half-arsed one.

I agree that the trunk cleaning was rather haphazard; neither GA nor CA had enough time to do anything thorough before leaving for work. But there was really no reason to touch a thing, unless they were worried there was incriminating evidence in it. Pants that smell like decomp, a steak knife - we truly have no idea what was taken out, but it was perhaps only things that GA deemed could look like evidence of some sort.

If you bring home a car that reeks of death, why touch anything at all until you get ahold of the owner? Why remove silly stuff like a pair of pants when you leave the shoes? Why wash the "mama doll" face with a wet wipe? Who would even care about opening it up, other than to look for an indication of where Caylee might be? I would think after looking in it to make sure nothing looked like a crime had been committed, I'd think about finding KC straightaway. We have no idea if there was a roll of duct tape lying on the back seat. Cindy removed the steak knife and admitted it, but she probably didn't want that taken into evidence.

No way they didn't know that this car was a potential crime scene, whether or not it had anything to do with Caylee. And who would waste a second cleaning anything with so many unanswered questions?

 

[christee]

She took clothes and a knife, but left shoes & boots plus the car seat. And yes, she did tell the prosecution she did not know why those would have been put in there, but it was not something she did.

Thought I'd post this pic of the dryer sheet in the car because, well, because I have it!

 

[BondJamesBond]

I understand what you're saying here. But there's been action in the investigation based on this chloroform finding, possibly even the GJ indictment (have to check dates on that). Wouldn't it be risky to assert the chloroform finding if there's no real faith in it ?

Yes. Agree, Treeseeker. Could be LE has more, and I'll be glad to learn of it. Could be they are just doing due dilligence, esp. after Arped's email.

Thought I'd post this pic of the dryer sheet in the car because, well, because I have it!

Thanks, Christee. I hadn't seen that pic before (that's not sayin' much though...there's alot I haven't seen @ this point )

I can envision the heels bein' tossed back there from the front seat. Interesting that the boot is kinda wadded up there by the car seat. It almost looks like it was stuffed there...as in between something in the rear seat and the carseat @ the time. Prolly nothin'...maybe Casey just stuffed her clothes in the backseat since she didn't wanna open the trunk, eh? Any idea where the other boot was? In the floorboard? See anything between the edge of the rear seat? :waitasec:

 

[cecybeans]

Yes. Agree, Treeseeker. Could be LE has more, and I'll be glad to learn of it. Could be they are just doing due dilligence, esp. after Arped's email.



Thanks, Christee. I hadn't seen that pic before (that's not sayin' much though...there's alot I haven't seen @ this point )

I can envision the heels bein' tossed back there from the front seat. Interesting that the boot is kinda wadded up there by the car seat. It almost looks like it was stuffed there...as in between something in the rear seat and the carseat @ the time. Prolly nothin'...maybe Casey just stuffed her clothes in the backseat since she didn't wanna open the trunk, eh? Any idea where the other boot was? In the floorboard? See anything between the edge of the rear seat? :waitasec:

This is new to me too. But it looks odd - isn't this the back seat passenger right side? Where is the car seat? That is usually where it is for a single child passenger (and has been for previous photos we've seen), and it looks gone. Was it taken out before the pic was shot? If so, then that would skew the position of the shoes, etc. Unless this photo was flopped and it's really the passenger left side.

 

[Hot Dogs]

We have no idea if there was a roll of duct tape lying on the back seat.

Why would CA remove and then not offer LE the duct tape on that day? She already knew that Caylee's face was covered with it? But then later uses that tape for Caylee posters?

Thought I'd post this pic of the dryer sheet in the car because, well, because I have it!

I don't know why I can't see this pic. Is it an attachment?

 

[3doglady]

I can't see the pic either.

 

[cecybeans]

Why would CA remove and then not offer LE the duct tape on that day? She already knew that Caylee's face was covered with it? But then later uses that tape for Caylee posters?

I was just speculating that CA may have been removing any items in the car that could have been used in the commission of a crime or had evidence on them that needed cleaning. Duct tape (if it was there) and a steak knife would certainly look suspicious to me if I found them in a car that stunk like death, as either could be considered weapons or instruments used to cause death. If I found fluid or any strange stains on clothes I might think they could have blood or other dna on them.

 

[Hot Dogs]

I can't see the pic either.

Well, I was able to get the web address for the pic, but I can't get it to display for me when I use it as an image. I also can't attach it because the software calls it an invalid file for that (I think it wants jpg, jpeg, gif, etc)

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=847&pictureid=9018

 

[Harmony 2]

...think we're in violent agreement 'bout trunk cleaning, Harmony. No real, concerted effort put into cleaning the trunk. Removing some items...may or may not have been vacuumed, etc. In spots maybe...maybe not. No huge conspiracy IMHO.

Re: homemade chloroform. I certainly understand the case you're making...and the context of the CSI notes. IMHO, it doesn't hurt the SA that the notes are written this way IYKWIM. I kinda read it like a convenient statement of fact. But will be happy to eat my hat if/when we get more Casey-the-chemist info. No secret that I'm predispositioned to not seeing Casey put forth that kinda effort...even a half-arsed one.

I have to agree with you BJB...I can't see her having the smarts (she's crafty and street smart....but not book smart) to spend the time researching, collecting materials, and making chloroform...especially since there are other "knock out" drugs available OTC. I'll eat my chemistry books....the whole darn shelf of them....if she EVER proves herself to be a chemist.

I will probably be the one eating my beanie.

Honestly, I can't see Casey putting forth the effort to make chloroform either. I just can't overlook or discount that glaring statement about finding the "by-products of making chloroform". I have failed to come up with a different interpretation and that was why I asked for one.

 

[Snaz]

Thought I'd post this pic of the dryer sheet in the car because, well, because I have it!

Do anyone know of some reason I wouldn't be able to view this pic? I usually don't have a problem seeing pictures posted.

TIA!

 

[Hot Dogs]

I was just speculating that CA may have been removing any items in the car that could have been used in the commission of a crime or had evidence on them that needed cleaning. Duct tape (if it was there) and a steak knife would certainly look suspicious to me if I found them in a car that stunk like death, as either could be considered weapons or instruments used to cause death. If I found fluid or any strange stains on clothes I might think they could have blood or other dna on them.

Her actual behavior suggests that she was not in a "destroy or conceal all possible incriminating evidence" mode. If she was thinking that, then she was incompetent and clueless about the actual details of Caylee's condition.

1. She gave LE the pants that were in the car. Washing will not remove chemical compounds of human decomposition or even blood - if those were present.
2. She gave LE a knife found in the car which certainly is a tool of murder.
3. She left rubber boots in the car which could have been used in the disposal of a dead body (wear these when you dig a hole, or go into a watery place).
4. She returned items from the car to LE in a black plastic trash bag that matches the ones with the body.


If she was in "protect KC" mode she could have...

1. Lied about there being any clothing in the car, or substitute some of KC's clothes that were not actually in the car.
2. Lied about the knife being in the car, or substitute a different (kind of) knife that would not have been used in a murder.
3. Lied about the boots/shoes being in the car, or substitute other footwear.
4. Imagine that Caylee might have been placed inside one of their household trash bags and not give any to LE.

Etc.

 

[Hot Dogs]

Do anyone know of some reason I wouldn't be able to view this pic? I usually don't have a problem seeing pictures posted.

TIA!

We had problems like this earlier this year. Some folks couldn't see images that had been attached. There is some bug or glitch with the forum software.

ETA: I am still unable to see this image. Maybe another poster can try attaching it?

 

[BondJamesBond]

Trying my PB account....

Since 'seeing kitties' :loser: is kinduva guilty pleasure I'm interested in what others see...

Kinda looks like something blue 'tween the edge of the seat and where the door would be.
Also kinda looks like a woman's clutch/checkbook w/ metal trim on the side...maybe on the clasp...stuffed there.
Kinda looks like a manilla folder shoved in behind it all.
Maybe its all something blue w/ a black polka dot pattern on it.

 

[Hot Dogs]

Thanks a lot. I can see it now. Am I seeing part of the baby seat in the extreme lower right?

ETA: We are WAY off topic for a thread about the Gatorade bottle found in the woods.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Thanks a lot. I can see it now. Am I seeing part of the baby seat in the extreme lower right?

That was the conclusion I jumped to, HD. I could've (and usually do) jumped too soon. :bang:

ETA: We are WAY off topic for a thread about the Gatorade bottle found in the woods.

Guilty as charged :bang: Better place would be the Pontiac thread IMHO.

 

[cecybeans]

Her actual behavior suggests that she was not in a "destroy or conceal all possible incriminating evidence" mode. If she was thinking that, then she was incompetent and clueless about the actual details of Caylee's condition.

1. She gave LE the pants that were in the car. Washing will not remove chemical compounds of human decomposition or even blood - if those were present.
2. She gave LE a knife found in the car which certainly is a tool of murder.
3. She left rubber boots in the car which could have been used in the disposal of a dead body (wear these when you dig a hole, or go into a watery place).
4. She returned items from the car to LE in a black plastic trash bag that matches the ones with the body.


If she was in "protect KC" mode she could have...

1. Lied about there being any clothing in the car, or substitute some of KC's clothes that were not actually in the car.
2. Lied about the knife being in the car, or substitute a different (kind of) knife that would not have been used in a murder.
3. Lied about the boots/shoes being in the car, or substitute other footwear.
4. Imagine that Caylee might have been placed inside one of their household trash bags and not give any to LE.

Etc.

I agree they didn't do a good or thorough job; I imagine they were a tad shellshocked and may not have been thinking clearly. We know that when CA had her head on straight she did withhold information and substitute hairbrushes, etc. But it is beyond me why they touched a freaking thing. GA knew better.

CA could not have known anything about the trash bags, so perhaps she didn't realize that would be important later. And they were buying ones with different colored handles by the time LP arrived. We are imagining their actions based on what we now know happened, at the time they may have thought a dead drug dealer had been in the trunk and were just hoping whatever happened did not involve Caylee. CA may also have had no idea that the boots would have been used for anything like dumping Caylee's body at that point either. I think they were unsure exactly what happened and just grabbed and cleaned certain things in a hurried state to eliminate any immediate ties to KC in case a crime had been committed and she was involved. The knife may not have had blood on it, but it may have been used to cut the adhesive and had KC's fingerprints on it. The dishwasher took care of that.

I'm just saying that it does not make sense that CA wiped the mama doll face before she had any idea where either KC or Caylee were and time was of the essence. And I believe I've heard that Arm & Hammer does take out blood better than some other detergents. A good washing might not get rid of everything, but it could degrade organic compounds or dna enough to make it difficult to identify. They may not have had the time or presence of mind to do anything more than a hasty cleaning, but most likely knew what sorts of things could be easily compromised or rendered of less evidentiary value if disturbed. And the fact that anything in the car was touched, particularly before even bothering to locate KC, makes me think they were aware of the importance of doing so, is all I mean. They have not handled much of anything with insight or perception, so I am not confident they would have done a great job on that, especially given the states of mind they were in.

 

[cecybeans]

Sorry for the OT (and promise this is it) but why do the other car seat photos look as if the car seat is in the correct position (opposite side of driver) and in this photo it looks as if it is on the left side of the car directly in back of the driver?

 

[BondJamesBond]

Sorry for the OT (and promise this is it) but why do the other car seat photos look as if the car seat is in the correct position (opposite side of driver) and in this photo it looks as if it is on the left side of the car directly in back of the driver?

Carrying on here...[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4491096#post4491096"]The Pontiac - "Revisted" - Page 29 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[mydailyopinions]

Bumping up for new evidence photos released today!

 

[ShadowGal]

In the sentinel slideshow of today (the photo numbers keep changing or I would say which picture)...there is a photo of the syringe on a petri dish with gel on the needle and then a photo of the plastic packaging with blueish gel inside.

Wonder what this is?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/os-casey-anthony-evidence-pictures-021610,0,62313.photogallery