West of Memphis

[Compassionate Reader]

I honestly believe, at the very least, the fact that the WMPD were already under some pretty heavy scrutiny around the time of the murders was a factor in the massive hurry-up to charge and convict, as well as a few highly suspect people being given the all-clear with little to no investigation.

To be honest, IIRC it was the Crittenden County Drug Task Force that was under investigation. Some members of the wmpd also served on the CCDTF. I think the "rush to judgement" was more due to pressure from the community to solve the case than from the drug investigation (although that, too, could have played a part).

Unsubstantiated as yet, but on jivepuppi, there's a comment about Judge Burnett himself having purchased one of the stolen weapons ... with an article quoted, but ofc that article isn't anywhere online. Or to be found, by any means I have at my disposal. I'd love that see a hard copy of that particular newspaper edition, though....

I have my suspicions as to why Burnett seems to be above scrutiny, but they're just suspicions. For one thing, at the time of the trials, and AFAIK until he was elected to the State Senate, Burnett was the chair of the ethics committee. So, no one could accuse him of unethical behavior! As I said, personally I believe that he is dirty, but I have no proof.

I am really surprised that not one of the various documentaries has made a bigger deal of this. It's a big deal, to me. I think it explains a lot - and could possibly explain a -whole- lot.

I agree. Maybe now that he's in the State Senate something can happen - unless he has a "bidness connegtion" that makes people fearful! Don't know anything here, just speculatin'!

 

[kyleb]

I think everyone simply posts their interpretation of the various facts/statements/evidence/etc.

That's not what you're doing when you argue "Continue to bury your head in the sand if it suits your argument best" and slander me as a troll for not cowering to such spurious attacks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRGd0gD0QNE

I see no reason we can't be friends, but I'm more interested in discussing the evidence here than humoring attempts to argue around it, let alone such attempts in the from of attacks on me rather than the evidence and reasoning I present.

I see a lot of debate going on about Jesse's first confession with police, but what about his other confessions--including to his lawyers?

Here's a bit from Misskelley's lawyer Dan Stidham's own website regarding the repeated confessions (the website recently went down but the page still be viewed thanks to the Wayback Machine):

Around the first of July, Dan arranged for Jessie Sr. to visit his son in jail. He let them have a few minutes together, and then Dan raised the subject of whether Jessie would testify against the others in exchange for leniency. "What kind of deal are they going to offer?" asked Jessie Sr.

"It'll depend on how bad they need him," Dan said.

Suddenly, Jessie Jr. sprang to his feet. "Daddy!" he said, "I wasn't there! Them cops made me say that ****! You gotta get me out of here!"

It made Dan furious. "Why did you tell me you were there if you weren't?" he demanded. "Are you afraid to admit it in front of your father?"

"I ain't afraid of nothing!" screamed Jessie.

The day ended with Dan and Jessie Sr. leaving, and Dan telling Jessie he'd be back when he was ready to tell the truth.

KIM CAN STILL see the look on Dan's face the night he told her the news. They'd sat down to supper, and then Dan had rolled up his sleeves and helped got the kids bathed and ready for bed. Life seemed remarkably normal--except for the expression on Dan's face. All evening long, he had looked, in Kim's word, "dazed."

And then, once the children were down, he told her. "Kim," he said, "Jessie Misskelley is innocent. He didn't do it. I don't think any of them did."

But that story of Misskelley proclaiming innocence "Around the first of July" doesn't square with the fact that Misskelley was still confessing to Stidham on August 19. And the previously linked article goes on to explain:

The day Misskelley pleaded Not Guilty, a man named Ron Lax approached Dan and Greg and asked if they wanted to have lunch. Lax, a private investigator from Nashville, Tennessee, had been working for Damien's attorneys. Lax "has strong feelings about the death penalty," Stidham says.

During lunch, Lax said, "Have you ever heard of Dr. Richard Ofshe?" He pronounced the name Off-shay. It didn't matter--neither Dan nor Greg knew who he was. Lax went on to explain that Ofshe, a professor of social psychology at Berkeley, was an expert with cults--he'd consulted with a news team that later won a Pulitzer Prize for investigating Synanon. More to the point, he was an expert on brain-washing, police interrogations, and "false confessions," and had worked on the Oregon case of a man who had "confessed" to his daughter's recovered-memory charges of rape. In the Oregon case, he had been hired by the prosecution--and then had decided the man was innocent. He found that he could tell the man stories his daughter was supposed to have told Ofshe--though Ofshe had never even talked with the daughter--and that, after a few hours, the man would confess to those allegations.

Lax sent Stidham a file on Ofshe, including a New Yorker piece on the Oregon case. Reading it, Dan suddenly felt hope. He called Ofshe, who agreed to look at the transcript of Misskelley's confession. When he called Stidham back, he said, in these exact words, "That's the stupidest ****ing confession I've ever seen."

So obviously it wasn't until at least a couple weeks after Lax introduced Stidham to Ofshe that Misskelley got on board with the false confession story, the interviews in December with Wilkins and Ofshe being the earliest evidence of such I've seen. But of course the notion that Missekelly quickly recanted his confession and has constantly maintained innocence makes it easier to explain away, which is obviously why propaganda like West of Memphis completely gloss over all the evidence to the contrary.

I have read "Devil's Knot" and watched all the "Paradise Lost" films as well as "West of Memphis," but still can't committ myself solely to one side or the other.

The Case Against the West Memphis Three provides the most through overview of other side of the story I've found, though it glosses over the mater of the constancy between survival knife and various wound on the boys. Part 4 of this article provides some details on that regarding that evidence though, which is ultimately what convinced me that the three committed the murders after having familiarized myself with the bulk of the evidence in this case as well as the arguments against it in the various movies and such.

 

[Miranda!]

. . it has never sat well with me that a photographer snapped a pic of one of the detectives "accidentally" discovering the first body.

Especialy as, technically, at that point they were still searching for three young boys who had gone awol. Had they really thought they were hunting for victims of a murder then they would surely have had evidence bags etc. all to hand!

In addition, how the police simply "lost" the blood scrapings from Bojangles. . . . . Can they (the department) really be that stupid?

In a word, YES! What was even worse was that they finally went to Bojangles straight from the ditch site with no change of clothes, so even had they not lost the blood evidence, it may well have been possible to have been called 'foul' because of possible cross contanimation!

Might that be a possibe 'why' that the evidence came to be 'lost'?

 

[Compassionate Reader]

<respectfully snipped>

In a word, YES! What was even worse was that they finally went to Bojangles straight from the ditch site with no change of clothes, so even had they not lost the blood evidence, it may well have been possible to have been called 'foul' because of possible cross contanimation!

Might that be a possibe 'why' that the evidence came to be 'lost'?

Also of import is that Meeks, when responding to the Bojangles call, didn't even get out of the patrol car but went through the drive-thru! She was either stupid or lazy. Maybe both. Either way, IMO that was unconscionable!

 

[UdbCrzy2]

The Case Against the West Memphis Three provides the most through overview of other side of the story I've found, though it glosses over the mater of the constancy between survival knife and various wound on the boys. Part 4 of this article provides some details on that regarding that evidence though, which is ultimately what convinced me that the three committed the murders after having familiarized myself with the bulk of the evidence in this case as well as the arguments against it in the various movies and such.

<<snipped for space>>

The page WM3Revelations is a really good one. I was impressed with all the factual material that was given as well as links to the evidence. The 'movies' have left out much of the truth.

Misskelley once had a love interest who posted on a supporter website named TrueRomance. After years of being a supporter she suddenly came to discover that this whole innocence claim was a scam. This was deleted from the supporter website, but picked up elsewhere. Here it is:

http://realwestmemphisthree.yuku.com/sreply/1561/Supporters-claim-Jessie-is-retarded

 

[primitivefuture]

<<snipped for space>>

The page WM3Revelations is a really good one. I was impressed with all the factual material that was given as well as links to the evidence. The 'movies' have left out much of the truth.

Misskelley once had a love interest who posted on a supporter website named TrueRomance. After years of being a supporter she suddenly came to discover that this whole innocence claim was a scam. This was deleted from the supporter website, but picked up elsewhere. Here it is:

http://realwestmemphisthree.yuku.com/sreply/1561/Supporters-claim-Jessie-is-retarded

Is there a link to something that explains what this woman is talking about? I read the whole post and it doesn't actually -say- anything. It's meaningless. Basically, she says I used to believe something, now I believe something else. I asked Jessie a question and he gave me a different answer than I expected. What did she used to believe? What does she believe now? What question did she ask Jessie? What answer did she expect and what answer did she actually get? It reads like a teen girl's diary entry.


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[primitivefuture]

<<snipped for space>>

The page WM3Revelations is a really good one. I was impressed with all the factual material that was given as well as links to the evidence. The 'movies' have left out much of the truth.

Misskelley once had a love interest who posted on a supporter website named TrueRomance. After years of being a supporter she suddenly came to discover that this whole innocence claim was a scam. This was deleted from the supporter website, but picked up elsewhere. Here it is:

http://realwestmemphisthree.yuku.com/sreply/1561/Supporters-claim-Jessie-is-retarded

Is there a link to something that explains what this woman is talking about? I read the whole post and it doesn't actually -say- anything. It's meaningless. Basically, she says I used to believe something, now I believe something else. I asked Jessie a question and he gave me a different answer than I expected. What did she used to believe? What does she believe now? What question did she ask Jessie? What answer did she expect and what answer did she actually get? It reads like a teen girl's diary entry.


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[Compassionate Reader]

Is there a link to something that explains what this woman is talking about? I read the whole post and it doesn't actually -say- anything. It's meaningless. Basically, she says I used to believe something, now I believe something else. I asked Jessie a question and he gave me a different answer than I expected. What did she used to believe? What does she believe now? What question did she ask Jessie? What answer did she expect and what answer did she actually get? It reads like a teen girl's diary entry.


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IMO, you're not far from wrong! She was a jilted quasi-girlfriend. IMO, she was looking for her 15 minutes by latching onto Jessie. When he rebuffed her (which she won't admit), she became bitter. She began as a supporter and ended up as a non is my take on the cryptic message. As to what question she asked Jessie, that's not so easy to deduce. Either she asked him to be his girlfriend and he said no (since he and Susie Brewer were still together at the time) or she asked him if he killed the boys and he said yes because he has an IQ of 72 and thought that she might be part of the police or something and was afraid to tell a different story to her than he told the officers. (Yes, people with low IQ's think like that!) If the latter is the case, that doesn't prove his guilt. It just proves how frightened and confused he was, even after the trial had been over for some time! All Jessie wanted from the time of his arrest was to go home. IMO, he would say and/or do whatever it took to accomplish that goal.

 

[reedus23]

Is there a link to something that explains what this woman is talking about? I read the whole post and it doesn't actually -say- anything. It's meaningless. Basically, she says I used to believe something, now I believe something else. I asked Jessie a question and he gave me a different answer than I expected. What did she used to believe? What does she believe now? What question did she ask Jessie? What answer did she expect and what answer did she actually get? It reads like a teen girl's diary entry.


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I saw the word "retarded" in the link UD provided and that told me enough and didn't feel the need to even open it. Have no idea what it says.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

I saw the word "retarded" in the link UD provided and that told me enough and didn't feel the need to even open it. Have no idea what it says.

FYI it's the defense saying he's retarded. We know that's not true.

Misskelley was borderline retarded.

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/press_conference.html

Expert psychological testimony at the Misskelley proceeding established that Misskelley had been diagnosed as mentally retarded, as had his brother. (MRT 342) Misskelley’s arithmetic and spelling skills were on the 2nd or 3rd grade level.

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/memorandum_motion_to_recall_echols.html

 

[Ausgirl]

I like the part where she complains about the guy who's been locked up for years writing to her too much... What did she expect? lol - and wasn't she his 'girlfriend'? Idk. Call me a snob, but I have to doubt how smart (and emotionally healthy) this person is, judging on her choices all round, there.

The part about money's interesting, though - IIRC, Jessie and his gf (the other one..) were in dire straits financially, after his release. I wasn't expecting to see one of the WM3 practically homeless, after the millions being chucked around through the years and all the celeb support, etc.

I personally think Jesse's been the red-headed step-kid of this whole debacle, from the outset.

 

[primitivefuture]

I like the part where she complains about the guy who's been locked up for years writing to her too much... What did she expect? lol - and wasn't she his 'girlfriend'? Idk. Call me a snob, but I have to doubt how smart (and emotionally healthy) this person is, judging on her choices all round, there.

The part about money's interesting, though - IIRC, Jessie and his gf (the other one..) were in dire straits financially, after his release. I wasn't expecting to see one of the WM3 practically homeless, after the millions being chucked around through the years and all the celeb support, etc.

I personally think Jesse's been the red-headed step-kid of this whole debacle, from the outset.

I did a little digging around that site. I wish I hadn't, because those people are awful. Apparently that girl later said she never cared about Misskelley and that she just wanted to "get inside the mind of a killer." Nice.


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[UdbCrzy2]

I like the part where she complains about the guy who's been locked up for years writing to her too much... What did she expect? lol - and wasn't she his 'girlfriend'? Idk. Call me a snob, but I have to doubt how smart (and emotionally healthy) this person is, judging on her choices all round, there.

The part about money's interesting, though - IIRC, Jessie and his gf (the other one..) were in dire straits financially, after his release. I wasn't expecting to see one of the WM3 practically homeless, after the millions being chucked around through the years and all the celeb support, etc.

I personally think Jesse's been the red-headed step-kid of this whole debacle, from the outset.

I was also surprised that he wasn't provided for the way the other two were. And we really never heard much from Misskelley not even today. He wasn't even invited to the big celebrity party when they were released. You know that had to have bothered him.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

I did a little digging around that site. I wish I hadn't, because those people are awful. Apparently that girl later said she never cared about Misskelley and that she just wanted to "get inside the mind of a killer." Nice.


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I never read that, but I'm pretty sure that's the kind of stuff she was talking about happening to her.

 

[Ausgirl]

I was also surprised that he wasn't provided for the way the other two were. And we really never heard much from Misskelley not even today. He wasn't even invited to the big celebrity party when they were released. You know that had to have bothered him.

IIRC though, his family had organised a party of their own, which he attended, instead?

 

[Compassionate Reader]

FYI it's the defense saying he's retarded. We know that's not true.

The defense said that he was "borderline retarded" which is an accepted nomenclature for someone whose IQ falls in the 70 - 79 range. This classification is sometimes called "borderline deficiency" as this chart indicates. The use of the word "retarded" is being phased out as it is considered pejorative, just like some other terms that used to be in common use but are now considered gauche and are no longer used in polite society. However, whether or not the word "retarded" is used, those with an IQ of 70 - 79 are not of "normal' intelligence. Any literature that one reads on the subject will confirm this.

While we're discussing the whole IQ subject, I'd like to clarify the statement I've heard some making that Jessie tested in the 80's (I want to say 88) on one test. This is true - to a point. I've read somewhere (but I can't find it for the life of me) that he tested 80-something on the performance portion of an IQ test. As this site explains, the IQ test is comprised of two parts. There is a "verbal" component that tests calculation skills, memory skills and other forms of "intelligence" that are considered to involve the higher thinking and reasoning skills. The "performance" portion tests more manipulative skills. It is not uncommon for those who are "borderline" mentally retarded to test higher, sometimes as much as 12 points, on the performance portion of the IQ test. However, the "performance" score is not the IQ. The two scores (verbal and performance) are melded together - with much more weight being given to the verbal - in order to obtain the "full scale" IQ score, which is the IQ.

According to Dr. Tim Dearning's testimony, Jessie's verbal score was 71, his performance score was 77 and his "full scale" score was 72, placing him well within the 70 - 79 "borderline deficiency" range in both sections of the test. Although the 77 falls well below the 80-something I remember being bantered around, it is above the 71 verbal score. The fact that Jessie's verbal and performance scores are within ten points of each other, and are both in the 70 - 79 range, indicates a "borderline" intelligence without a learning disability. This is why Jessie went to "special education" classes instead of being "mainstreamed" as is done for students with learning disabilities. So, although some don't like to admit it, Jessie was and is "borderline" retarded. I know I'm being wordy, and I apologize. As a retired teacher, I understand the implications of these scores better than some people might. In short, Jessie doesn't have trouble learning because he's dyslexic or has ADD or ADHD or any other biological problem retarding his intelligence. He is, to put it succinctly, slow-witted or "borderline" retarded.

 

[Ausgirl]

I did a little digging around that site. I wish I hadn't, because those people are awful.

While I appreciate some of the research individuals on other crime forums do, most make me run screaming back to WS, where we're made to refrain from a wide variety of unseemly behaviours.

That way, I get to cling like a scared limpet to the idea that most people are, essentially, pretty much okay.

 

[primitivefuture]

The defense said that he was "borderline retarded" which is an accepted nomenclature for someone whose IQ falls in the 70 - 79 range. This classification is sometimes called "borderline deficiency" as this chart indicates. The use of the word "retarded" is being phased out as it is considered pejorative, just like some other terms that used to be in common use but are now considered gauche and are no longer used in polite society. However, whether or not the word "retarded" is used, those with an IQ of 70 - 79 are not of "normal' intelligence. Any literature that one reads on the subject will confirm this.

While we're discussing the whole IQ subject, I'd like to clarify the statement I've heard some making that Jessie tested in the 80's (I want to say 88) on one test. This is true - to a point. I've read somewhere (but I can't find it for the life of me) that he tested 80-something on the performance portion of an IQ test. As this site explains, the IQ test is comprised of two parts. There is a "verbal" component that tests calculation skills, memory skills and other forms of "intelligence" that are considered to involve the higher thinking and reasoning skills. The "performance" portion tests more manipulative skills. It is not uncommon for those who are "borderline" mentally retarded to test higher, sometimes as much as 12 points, on the performance portion of the IQ test. However, the "performance" score is not the IQ. The two scores (verbal and performance) are melded together - with much more weight being given to the verbal - in order to obtain the "full scale" IQ score, which is the IQ.

According to Dr. Tim Dearning's testimony, Jessie's verbal score was 71, his performance score was 77 and his "full scale" score was 72, placing him well within the 70 - 79 "borderline deficiency" range in both sections of the test. Although the 77 falls well below the 80-something I remember being bantered around, it is above the 71 verbal score. The fact that Jessie's verbal and performance scores are within ten points of each other, and are both in the 70 - 79 range, indicates a "borderline" intelligence without a learning disability. This is why Jessie went to "special education" classes instead of being "mainstreamed" as is done for students with learning disabilities. So, although some don't like to admit it, Jessie was and is "borderline" retarded. I know I'm being wordy, and I apologize. As a retired teacher, I understand the implications of these scores better than some people might. In short, Jessie doesn't have trouble learning because he's dyslexic or has ADD or ADHD or any other biological problem retarding his intelligence. He is, to put it succinctly, slow-witted or "borderline" retarded.

Thank you for the explanation. It strikes me as rather desperate when people try to argue that Jessie is not of below average intelligence. While I was clicking around that other board, posters there were discussing this topic. Todd Moore was saying that Jessie's IQ is actually something like 85 and that he can't be mentally retarded because he mentioned wanting to go to college, as if that is proof of anything.



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[kyleb]

IMO, she was looking for her 15 minutes by latching onto Jessie.

Do you figure that was Lorri's motivation with Echols too?

Apparently that girl later said she never cared about Misskelley and that she just wanted to "get inside the mind of a killer." Nice.

Spreading nasty rumors about people isn't nice.

 

[reedus23]

FYI it's the defense saying he's retarded. We know that's not true.

It wasn't a shot at you just so you know. May or may not have been a legitimate link. Just saw the word and have had too many links that simply go to a spin site so I just chose not to go there.