What do the profilers say?

[rashomon]

I totally agree with your assessment Linda7NJ. I believe the rope was used for the added excitement of the sexual abuser as you describe and nothing whatsoever to do with any possible pleasure for JonBenet. I don't think the ligature had anything at all to do with EA or AEA either for that matter. If Lou Smit, Cyril Wecht, John Ramsey and the Boulder police all think it was EA then they are all completely wrong IMO.

JMPO, but the murder itself had nothing to do with '(auto) erotic asphyxiation' , for (auto) erotic asphyxiation (as far as I have been able to conclude from the info posted here) ALWAYS implies that the person who either does this to himself ('auto' erotic asphyxiation) or to whom this is done by his own consent derives sexual pleasure from being 'asphyxiated'.

So in all probability you don't have any 'unwillling' victims in erotic asphyxiation activities.

So if we apply stringent logic: John Ramsey, Lou Smit, Cyril Wecht and Co. seriously want to make us believe that JonBenet willingly was a part of this: consented to be asphyxiated for the purpose of sexual arousal, and it all went wrong because she actually died from the asphyxiation? Oh, yeah, maybe this was the infamous 'accident' which is always alluded to? (Where's my barf bag?)

There are of course murderers who get sexually aroused by strangling their victims. But I think this has nothing to do with that 'erotic asphyxiation stuff'.

Time and again, profilers have pointed out that when perpetrators who are not professional criminals themselves, when they do have to stage a scene, they often stage too much.
And the killer in the Ramsey case did stage too much: Jon Benet as an alleged victim of sexual assault (the injury to her vagina), but wouldn't the injury to her vagina completely contradict any erotic asphyxiation scenario??

The killer staged too much here imo. He staged too much because he wanted to point away from what actually happened.

 

[LinasK]

JMPO, but the murder itself had nothing to do with '(auto) erotic asphyxiation' , for (auto) erotic asphyxiation (as far as I have been able to conclude from the info posted here) ALWAYS implies that the person who either does this to himself ('auto' erotic asphyxiation) or to whom this is done by his own consent derives sexual pleasure from being 'asphyxiated'.

So in all probability you don't have any 'unwillling' victims in erotic asphyxiation activities.

So if we apply stringent logic: John Ramsey, Lou Smit, Cyril Wecht and Co. seriously want to make us believe that JonBenet willingly was a part of this: consented to be asphyxiated for the purpose of sexual arousal, and it all went wrong because she actually died from the asphyxiation? Oh, yeah, maybe this was the infamous 'accident' which is always alluded to? (Where's my barf bag?)

There are of course murderers who get sexually aroused by strangling their victims. But I think this has nothing to do with that 'erotic asphyxiation stuff'.

Time and again, profilers have pointed out that when perpetrators who are not professional criminals themselves, when they do have to stage a scene, they often stage too much.
And the killer in the Ramsey case did stage too much: Jon Benet as an alleged victim of sexual assault (the injury to her vagina), but wouldn't the injury to her vagina completely contradict any erotic asphyxiation scenario??

The killer staged too much here imo. He staged too much because he wanted to point away from what actually happened.

I agree with you that JBR was sexually assaulted and was asphyxiated. I highly doubt that she was a willing participant. I do however; believe that John was the one molesting/asphyxiating her (it was his pleasure involved, no regard for JB) and that he took it too far! I also agree with you that he staged it to point away from what happened, but with Patsy's help...

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I think JonBenet was a willing participant in the crime that killed her, but when I say "willing participant", I mean she felt she had no option but to comply. I do not mean that she enjoyed it in any way at all. I say I think she complied because there is no sign of her fighting the person who strangled her and she was not restrained while she was being strangled. This indicates to me that she knew the strangler and was accustomed to being compliant with what that person told her to do whether she liked it or not. I believe she must have been afraid to disobey. That person has to be one of her parents.

 

[LinasK]

I think JonBenet was a willing participant in the crime that killed her, but when I say "willing participant", I mean she felt she had no option but to comply. I do not mean that she enjoyed it in any way at all. I say I think she complied because there is no sign of her fighting the person who strangled her and she was not restrained while she was being strangled. This indicates to me that she knew the strangler and was accustomed to being compliant with what that person told her to do whether she liked it or not. I believe she must have been afraid to disobey. That person has to be one of her parents.

Thank-you for clarifying what I have been feeling Nuisanceposter. P.S. you're not a nuisance...

 

[rashomon]

I think JonBenet was a willing participant in the crime that killed her, but when I say "willing participant", I mean she felt she had no option but to comply. I do not mean that she enjoyed it in any way at all. I say I think she complied because there is no sign of her fighting the person who strangled her and she was not restrained while she was being strangled. This indicates to me that she knew the strangler and was accustomed to being compliant with what that person told her to do whether she liked it or not. I believe she must have been afraid to disobey. That person has to be one of her parents.

OMG, yes, this would make sense! JonBenet accustomed to being compliant with what was done to her because she was afraid to disobey. That person being an authority figure who shamelessly abused his authority to fit that poor child into his kinky sex games. And the only one who comes to mind is of course not an outside intruder, but one of her parents! Horrible - poor, poor JonBenet! Robbed of her life even before she was killed by being put through that irresponsible pageant circus, and not only that, also sexually abused for a prolonged time. In all probability by her own father. Abused and killed on Christmas 1996. An unspeakable crime.

And from what we know (or better don't know) of John Ramsey, he indeed is somehing like a dark horse. Few people really knew him well.
Someone maybe with a lot of dark secrets to hide.
What is also interesting is that when his older daughter Beth had died in a car accident, John Ramsey was beside himself with grief.
Whereas when John Benet was found dead, he went about this in a cold and almost businesslike manner.

But would Patsy Ramsey have covered up for a husband who had done this to her child? The only explanation I can think of is that Patsy was somewhat aware of what was going on all the time and helped in the cover-up because she knew the autopsy would reveal the chronic sexual abuse.

 

[rashomon]

Nehemiah,
The Ramseys say they believe he is a male because of the strength of the blow to JonBenet's head. He is a pedophile with a preference for little girls. He is a sociopath experienced with autoerotic asphyxiation, the use of garrotes to enhance sex.
BlueCrab

A profile which could exactly fit John Ramsey himself.
If he recognized the way the rope was tied as an EA device, then he himself must have been familiar with that kind of stuff. And since it was found out that JB had been suffering from chronic sexual abuse, it is not a far stretch to conclude that he himself probably was involved in this.

But Ramsey probably thought he was pretty clever by 'profiling' the perp himself.
Knowing that EA practice is relatively uncommon, and therefore no one might suspect him, the father, an honored member of society, of being able to do such a thing to his own child.

 

[UKGuy]

Nehemiah,
The Ramseys say they believe he is a male because of the strength of the blow to JonBenet's head. He is a pedophile with a preference for little girls. He is a sociopath experienced with autoerotic asphyxiation, the use of garrotes to enhance sex.
BlueCrab

I have always found the term garrote as used wrt the JonBenet homicide as potentially misleading.

Since the word is generally understood as meaning either an execution or asphyxiation device.

But with JonBenet we have the additional speculation that the garrote was not really a garrote, but an erotic asphyxiation device, which is a wholly different object!

So until I have futher evidence to substantiate that the ligature and broken paintbrush handle were indeed constructed to engage JonBenet in Erotic Asphyxiation, I will assume she was garroted with the cord, and the paintbrush handle was affixed subsequently as part of the crime scene staging!

And if its John that is proposing to profile the killer of JonBenet as experienced in EA, then this conforms to the behaviour of those involved in crime scene staging, where they not only invariably find or lead the lea to the body, but also offer verbal evidence to tie a suspect in. All this assumes he was not simply repeating from Lou Smit's profile?


.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Thank-you for clarifying what I have been feeling Nuisanceposter. P.S. you're not a nuisance...

Thanks. I called myself that on the Michael Jackson boards when I truly was a nuisance to Jackson fans since I believe the man is a pedophile.

 

[LinasK]

Thanks. I called myself that on the Michael Jackson boards when I truly was a nuisance to Jackson fans since I believe the man is a pedophile.

Were you on our MJ board or CTV or MJ's?

 

[aussiesheila]

aussiesheila,

Sorry, but I don't have the report nor do I know how to access it. My info about the report came from Lou Smit's power-point presentation.

It was "The New Yorker" which reported that "Dark fibers found on the body did not match clothing found in the house". The New Yorker apparently got that info from the FBI.

BlueCrab

BlueCrab,

do you mean that Lou Smit used the Colorado Bureau of Investigation's report that indicated that fibers from the comforter were found on her shirt, on her vaginal area, on the duct tape, on the ligature, and inside the body bag in his power-point presentation?

 

[aussiesheila]

JBR gets murdered, so her pediatrician becomes a pedophile. Was there an indication, aside from JBR's murder, that the pediatrician's a pedophile or is this another example of the circular reasoning thing?

IMO JonBenet suffered from a lot of physical ailments and it seems to me that her pediatrician did not take them very seriously.

I think a good pediatrician would have referred her to both a urologist and an ear nose and throat specialist to examine her for underlying physical problems.

I think a good pediatrician would know that the physical ailments JonBenet suffered from were all indicators of sexual abuse and would have referred her to a trained counsellor to ascertain whether this might be the reason for all her ailments.

I also thought he was vague and evasive in answering the questions that were put to him in the television interviews. And for him to come out with statements to the effect that he had absolutely no reason to suspect sexual abuse, well, I don't know maybe the man is simply incompetent. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[aussiesheila]

JMPO, but the murder itself had nothing to do with '(auto) erotic asphyxiation' , for (auto) erotic asphyxiation (as far as I have been able to conclude from the info posted here) ALWAYS implies that the person who either does this to himself ('auto' erotic asphyxiation) or to whom this is done by his own consent derives sexual pleasure from being 'asphyxiated'.

So in all probability you don't have any 'unwillling' victims in erotic asphyxiation activities.

So if we apply stringent logic: John Ramsey, Lou Smit, Cyril Wecht and Co. seriously want to make us believe that JonBenet willingly was a part of this: consented to be asphyxiated for the purpose of sexual arousal, and it all went wrong because she actually died from the asphyxiation? Oh, yeah, maybe this was the infamous 'accident' which is always alluded to? (Where's my barf bag?)

There are of course murderers who get sexually aroused by strangling their victims. But I think this has nothing to do with that 'erotic asphyxiation stuff'.

Time and again, profilers have pointed out that when perpetrators who are not professional criminals themselves, when they do have to stage a scene, they often stage too much.
And the killer in the Ramsey case did stage too much: Jon Benet as an alleged victim of sexual assault (the injury to her vagina), but wouldn't the injury to her vagina completely contradict any erotic asphyxiation scenario??

The killer staged too much here imo. He staged too much because he wanted to point away from what actually happened.

I suspect these guys had never even heard of EA or AEA before this case. I suspect that even now that they have heard of it they still don't understand exactly what it is.

I'm not with you on the staging bit. I think the sexual assault and the asphyxiation were both for real and both for the erotic satisfaction of the abusers .

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Were you on our MJ board or CTV or MJ's?

This one and CTV. I avoided the MJ fansites for the most part because I couldn't stand hearing people praise him as if he was holy, and many didn't allow anyone to say anything negative about MJ whatsoever.

aussiesheila - excellent post about Dr. Beuf. It baffles me how a pediatrician can sit and claim that he didn't suspect a patient with a medical history like JonBenet's could be the victim of molestation. It baffles me that Patsy didn't request that JonBenet be seen by some specialists for her ongoing medical problems, especially since the Rs had such fabulous health insurance and used it so freely. It's like the cover-up was already going on back then, with doctor and mother both refusing to admit the child displayed signs of being sexually abused.

 

[aussiesheila]

I think JonBenet was a willing participant in the crime that killed her, but when I say "willing participant", I mean she felt she had no option but to comply. I do not mean that she enjoyed it in any way at all. I say I think she complied because there is no sign of her fighting the person who strangled her and she was not restrained while she was being strangled. This indicates to me that she knew the strangler and was accustomed to being compliant with what that person told her to do whether she liked it or not. I believe she must have been afraid to disobey. That person has to be one of her parents.

Nuisanceposter, many children are abused over and over again. They don't disobey their abusers and they are compliant with the abuser's wishes. But, you are quite, quite wrong. An abuser who fits this description does not HAVE to be a parent. Please go read some accounts by adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. There are many instances where the ongoing abuser is an outsider to the immediate family, either an uncle or a grandfather or a friend of the family. And very often neither parent has any idea it is happening, so cunningly manipulative are the pedophiles.

 

[aussiesheila]

aussiesheila - excellent post about Dr. Beuf. It baffles me how a pediatrician can sit and claim that he didn't suspect a patient with a medical history like JonBenet's could be the victim of molestation. It baffles me that Patsy didn't request that JonBenet be seen by some specialists for her ongoing medical problems, especially since the Rs had such fabulous health insurance and used it so freely. It's like the cover-up was already going on back then, with doctor and mother both refusing to admit the child displayed signs of being sexually abused.

Thanks Nuisanceposter, this is such a rare event. Someone agreeing with me. Made my day.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Nuisanceposter, many children are abused over and over again. They don't disobey their abusers and they are compliant with the abuser's wishes. But, you are quite, quite wrong. An abuser who fits this description does not HAVE to be a parent. Please go read some accounts by adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. There are many instances where the ongoing abuser is an outsider to the immediate family, either an uncle or a grandfather or a friend of the family. And very often neither parent has any idea it is happening, so cunningly manipulative are the pedophiles.

I hear you, and I agree. I'm not saying the molester is always one of the parents, I just believe in JonBenet's case, the session of molesting that resulted in her death on Christmas night was enacted by one of her parents.

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab,

do you mean that Lou Smit used the Colorado Bureau of Investigation's report that indicated that fibers from the comforter were found on her shirt, on her vaginal area, on the duct tape, on the ligature, and inside the body bag in his power-point presentation?

aussiesheila,

Apparently. Lou Smit had copied everything he could (reports, photos, etc.) before resigning from the DA's staff. Smit's son reportedly organized the information on the computer for him.

 

[BlueCrab]

Thanks Nuisanceposter, this is such a rare event. Someone agreeing with me. Made my day.

aussiesheila,

I too agree Dr. Francesco Beuf appeared to be covering up for JonBenet's obvious signs of sexual abuse. The autopsy later proved she had been chronically sexually abused.

As you may know, Beuf, soon after the murder, abandoned the medical field and went back to his original occupation, that of an aeronautical engineer.

 

[rashomon]

I just believe in JonBenet's case, the session of molesting that resulted in her death on Christmas night was enacted by one of her parents.

I think that too, but the hardest part for me is to believe that the other parent would cover up for what the molesting parent had done to child: killed it!
The other parent did not break down in shock over what happened, but instead immediately helped the killer to get away with murder. This is what I find so hard to understand, in case it was one of the Ramsey parents.

 

[tipper]

aussiesheila,

I too agree Dr. Francesco Beuf appeared to be covering up for JonBenet's obvious signs of sexual abuse. The autopsy later proved she had been chronically sexually abused.

As you may know, Beuf, soon after the murder, abandoned the medical field and went back to his original occupation, that of an aeronautical engineer.

http://thepediatriccenter.net/beuf.html

As of Jan 5, 2006

“Dr. Beuf was raised on his family's ranch in Wyoming. He received a degree in Mechanical Engineering from Cal Tech in 1955, then worked for one year at the Bell Telephone Laboratories in Murray Hill, New Jersey. In 1956 he accepted an offer by General Electric's new Missile and Space Division in Philadelphia, where he was involved in design of missiles satellites, Mars exploration probes, and, for his last four years, was manager of the Space Division's International Operations, a $30,000,000 enterprise.

In 1972, he took a leave of absence from GE to attend Temple University's School of Medicine, followed by internship and residency at the University of Pennsylvania Children's Hospital. For the next two years he was director of the intensive care nursery at the Byrn Mawr Hospital. He then returned to his home town in Wyoming where he practiced general pediatrics, served as Chief of Staff at Sheridan County Memorial Hospital and was appointed by the Governor to the Wyoming Certificate of Need Board and Early Intervention Council.

In 1990, Dr. Beuf moved to Boulder, admitting patients to Boulder Community and Avista hospitals. In addition to his general pediatric work, Dr. Beuf enjoys teaching students at the CU Medical School. His particular interests are in the fields of Asthma/Allergy and Neonatology. He is board certified in Pediatrics, is a Fellow of the American Academy of Pediatrics, a member of the Colorado and Boulder County Medical Societies, and has been awarded the American Medical Association's Physician's Recognition Award with Commendation for Self-Directed Learning. His articles have appeared in national journals in the fields of medicine and interplanetary exploration and in sports car magazines.

He is married to the artist, Penni Pearson, and has three children, two step-children and three grandchildren. His outside interests include biking, skiing, racing his sports car, exploring Boulder and Denver restaurants with Penni, and trying to stay ahead of the deer and the weeds which are competing for the garden.”


Ignoring the fact that the autopsy says nothing about her having been chronically sexually abused...

I don't see anything about his becoming an aeronautical engineer (unless you are counting his work at GE as a degree) OR that he left the field of pediatrics. We went over all this last October.

Added: While looking for something else I see Blue Crab was pushing this same wrong info in July as well.