What do the profilers say?

[Camper]

Welllllllll, having been hanging here for 9 years, I know that what WE DON'T KNOW about this murder would and does fill massive amounts of pieces of paper in boxes and locked up somewhere.

Its sorta like typing a letter when several keys don't work.

s wh t I m n.

B ing m n is not a good tr it for posting on W bsl uths.


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[Camper]

This seems to be an application of a double-standard. EA device is a 'supplantation,' and so is 'prior abuse,' as is 'BR in the background'. I could go on and on with 'supplantations' presented as qualified facts.

BR going straight to bed or building a model with his dad is more 'JBR trivia' than 'very basic fact.'

An example of a 'very basic fact' is that the basement was used for the crime. Why use the basement unless you were trying to hide things from other occupants of the house? If RDI then they'd be hiding JBR from themselves. That makes as much sense as PR calling 911 earlier than the RN prescribed.

========When I was little, back in 1940, small children played doctor, and they did not do IT in front of family and friends. Hence, playing 'doctor' has evolved into much more intense and educated involvement, with or without aussiesheilas scenario.

For folks who think a word was misused, here is the definition for one of the largest words I have seen lately on WS,

http://www.answers.com/supplantation

Sup·plan·ta·tion
n.
[Cf. F. supplantation, L. supplantatio hypocritical deceit.]
The act of supplanting or displacing.

Habitual supplantation of immediate selfishness.
Cloeridge.


LE nor WS'ers have ALL of the facts of this case, or perhaps someone would be now sitting in a striped jail cell spa.


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[Voice of Reason]

This seems to be an application of a double-standard. EA device is a 'supplantation,' and so is 'prior abuse,' as is 'BR in the background'. I could go on and on with 'supplantations' presented as qualified facts.

BR going straight to bed or building a model with his dad is more 'JBR trivia' than 'very basic fact.'

An example of a 'very basic fact' is that the basement was used for the crime. Why use the basement unless you were trying to hide things from other occupants of the house? If RDI then they'd be hiding JBR from themselves. That makes as much sense as PR calling 911 earlier than the RN prescribed.

Two quick points:

1 - I am not the one to use the terms "prior abuse" or "EA device" as supposed "facts" in this case.
2 - I'd say that the last movements of 2 of the only 3 people known to be in the house on the night of JBR's death is a pretty significant fact and not mere "trivia."

 

[Brefie]

I suppose there was no murder, either, right? It was just an unfortunate accident, right?

Oh contraire, mon frere - there is evidence of a murder, just not an intruder.

 

[sissi]

Many old sites can be found using the "Waybackmachine" at www.archive.org. You won't be able to see pictures, but you can get text. Not every site makes it into the archive, though. I could not find the barbie site, although I found many of the old URL's for his websites in Google Groups. Most of them pulled up nothing in the archives...

So, was he officially cleared?

Wow, what a find!! We can click away and see much of what was available.
Officially cleared, for whatever that is worth...yep!

http://web.archive.org/web/19980215043125/wideawake.org/Body.html

http://web.archive.org/web/19980215043125/wideawake.org/Body.html

his words:
Death is best dealt with by strangulation, a shot to the head, or drowning. Knives can be too messy. Don't worry about the blood. She's a doll and doesn't have any diseases.

 

[sissi]

I have had one question for the BPD since January of 1998, the date they took his dna sample, was it tested against the foreign dna found on the child?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Prove it, show me just ONE pedophile that molested & kidnapped for ransom. All it would take for you to disprove what I stated is a single link to such a case...Ain't gonna happen but why don't you go ahead and try? You're wrong!

Just because you continue to insist they do, doesn't make it so.

I keep saying to myself I am still a size 5...but guess what?

That's what:

​

​

"A crime can also have more than one motivation. If there are multiple offenders, whose motivation defines the crime? In some cases it can be difficult to determine motivation even from the offender after the case is solved. We know that offenders are more reluctant to admit sexual motives than other types of motives ( e.g., profit, revenge, anger, power). Some offenders may not even realize their true motivation. An offender may eventually request a ridiculously small ransom for a child he had abducted to molest in an apparent attempt to convince others, but primarily himself, that he is not a sex offender."​

 

[Linda7NJ]

That's what:

"A crime can also have more than one motivation. If there are multiple offenders, whose motivation defines the crime? In some cases it can be difficult to determine motivation even from the offender after the case is solved. We know that offenders are more reluctant to admit sexual motives than other types of motives ( e.g., profit, revenge, anger, power). Some offenders may not even realize their true motivation. An offender may eventually request a ridiculously small ransom for a child he had abducted to molest in an apparent attempt to convince others, but primarily himself, that he is not a sex offender."





​

And this is supposed to disprove my statement? It doesn't.

BTW just so you know for next time, when you cut & paste you should always give the author & source credit, a link would be lovely.


Find me ONE instance, ONE case...just one......

 

[aussiesheila]

aussiesheila, boy your scenario has my hair falling out at the roots. Simple solution, just round up all of the participants in your sexual perversion 'ring' and someone will squawk.
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Camper, sorry if my scenario has a bad effect on you, but you will have to get used to it as I KNOW it is accurate, give or take a a bit of tidying up around the edges. My theory fits perfectly with all known evidence, I challenge anyone to come up with any evidence that can destroy it. Believe me, what I theorise is not from the realms of fantasy - this stuff HAPPENS!

Why do you imagine rounding up all of the participants in my sexual perversion 'ring' would result in someone squawking? Each one's survival depends on their maintaining a total silence on all the others' activities. If anyone squawked they would be signing their own death warrant.

 

[aussiesheila]

What do you believe was in this for Patsy? Why would she allow such behavior toward her daughter?

Well Nehemiah, I don't think Patsy got any enjoyment out of the situation and I think she would have preferred it if things were otherwise. But it was a situation that she found herself in and did not have the strength of character to say no, this is not right.

The way a pedophile gains access to a child is firstly to get himself into a close relationship with the adult members of the family. He will ingratiate himself with the family, be ever so friendly and helpful and kind to their children, make himself indispensible to them such that the family would find it difficult to end the relationship and would suffer if they did. In the case of the Ramseys, I think it was FW who targetted JonBenet, he cultivated a relationship with the Ramseys and ensured that he and his wife and children would become best friends with them and their children way before initiating any abuse. Then one day after it has started Patsy might get suspicious that something is going on. But by then the Ws were so closely involved with the Ramseys, were such an important part of their social life, that if Patsy had said anything her perfect little world in Boulder would have fallen apart. All her friends and church acquaintances, some of whom would have been pedophiles or partners of pedophiles, would have turned against her. Even people who were not pedophiles or pedophile associates would have said how can you accuse the Ws of such a dreadful thing, they are lovely people, they would never do a thing like that, how can you even think such a thing? Patsy would have been shunned. Her social standing in Boulder would have plummeted to zero. Patsy IMO was not a person who could stand up to something like that. So she put her daughter second to her own interests.

 

[Nehemiah]

before admitting hearsay
The only things I would admit into evidence at this point are the ransom note, the slain 6 year old, weapons, and the testimony of the inital reaction of the parents. There's a lot that can be established from this, a lot of work to do, before admitting hearsay.

How do you explain that the R's initially stated that John read to JB upon returning home from the White's, but later changed his story to say the he read to himself; Patsy initially stated that JB went to bed wearing the red turtleneck, but later changed her story to say that she went to bed wearing the white Gap shirt? Patsy said that she saw the heart drawn on JB's hand "that morning"...later changed that....etc...If you believe that one should only take the parents' initial testimonies, how do you reconcile when the stories changed? Which do you decide to believe and why?

 

[Camper]

Camper, sorry if my scenario has a bad effect on you, but you will have to get used to it as I KNOW it is accurate, give or take a a bit of tidying up around the edges. My theory fits perfectly with all known evidence, I challenge anyone to come up with any evidence that can destroy it. Believe me, what I theorise is not from the realms of fantasy - this stuff HAPPENS!

Why do you imagine rounding up all of the participants in my sexual perversion 'ring' would result in someone squawking? Each one's survival depends on their maintaining a total silence on all the others' activities. If anyone squawked they would be signing their own death warrant.

Wellllll, the reason I think someone would squawk, was cuz someone did. When the person squawked they were hustled back to California, never to be heard from again. Do you remember that scenario, which came rather early on in this case? The squawker included airplanes transporting folks to and from 'sexual holiday meetings'. Holidays were the times for these 'get to gethers' so that groups of people entering homes would not appear to be anything other than holiday parties. There was a whole lot more information given by this 'apparent nutzoid'.

Remember when LBJ's secretary/asst ?, was blowing whistles about government thingies, and she ended up in a mental institution, never to be heard from again.

The person from California who told a sordid story about the JonBenet case, was deemed 'nutz', she had even been sequestered by an attorney to keep her safe then OOPS she was gone back to her 'family' in CA for 'safekeeping and care'.

My remembrance is correct, does anyone have a source for aussiesheila on where to dig up this OLDE information?

Curious what led you to your scenario aussiesheila?

PS: I have lots of hair so no real damage, thanks for being concerned.

PS #2. I had often thought that many of the pictures of JonBenet looked as though there could have been sexual stimulation of some sort. Such bright eyed stimulating appearance that one does not typically see in professional photographs of children.

PS #3. Did anyone see Dr. Henry Lee on LKL last night? He did answer LK's question on whether Lee thought the JonBenet case would ever be solved. He answered in the negative, primarilly when a case goes unsolved for such a long time it is never resolved.



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[BlueCrab]

There was no prior sexual abuse that was substantiated by a team of credible medical experts. There may have been some medically credentialed people who expressed their opinion, but I'm sure this 'substantiating team' doesn't exist.

The 'garrote,' historically used for quiet control and kill, was found around JBR's neck, and yes it is plainly observable. That it was used on JBR for the purpose of 'erotic asphyxiation' is about the most speculative, and absurd, idea yet.

HOTYH,

There were seven nationally-recognized physicians who analyzed the autopsy report and studied the microscopic slides obtained by the coroner, Dr. John Meyer. All seven experts agreed there was evidence of chronic sexual abuse, although one of them was undecided. The seven were:

Dr. Cyril Wecht
Dr. David Jones
Dr. James Monteleone
Dr. John McCann
Dr. Ronald Wright
Dr. Richard Krugman, and
Dr. Werner Spitz.

Spitz was undecided.

The contraption wrapped around JonBenet's neck was indeed an erotic asphyxiation (EA) device. Even John Ramsey admits that while profiling the killer: "He is a pedophile with a preference for little girls. He is a sociopath experienced with autoerotic asphyxiation, the use of garrotes to enhance sex."

BlueCrab

 

[BlueCrab]

The 'garrote,' historically used for quiet control and kill, was found around JBR's neck, and yes it is plainly observable. That it was used on JBR for the purpose of 'erotic asphyxiation' is about the most speculative, and absurd, idea yet.

HOTYH,

JonBenet had an EA device wrapped around her neck.

Please research EA and AEA to get a better understanding of this paraphilia. The FBI estimates about 500 Americans die accidentally each year while practicing EA and AEA. There are dozens of websites that help explain this extremely dangerous masturbation technique. Here's one of them:

http://www.psychdirect.com/forensic/Criminology/para/aea.htm

BlueCrab

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

HOTYH,

JonBenet had an EA device wrapped around her neck.

Please research EA and AEA to get a better understanding of this paraphilia. The FBI estimates about 500 Americans die accidentally each year while practicing EA and AEA. There are dozens of websites that help explain this extremely dangerous masturbation technique. Here's one of them:

http://www.psychdirect.com/forensic/Criminology/para/aea.htm

BlueCrab

How can 'sexual masochism,' the category under which this activity belongs possibly be applied to a 6 year old girl? This doesn't fit the description given in your link at all.

Nearly all of the cases of hyposyphilia have been post-puberty males. The whole article deals with males, masochism, and obsession with death. The practice is linked to mental disorders.

Can you please explain how a 6 year old girl has mental disorders, is a sexual masochist, having defied nature and past puberty?

Or is there a male who practiced AEA on her? Now that's out of the scope of your article completely, as AEA is listed in the 'sexual masochism' category.

JBR had a run-in with a pedophilic child-killer, who used a garrote to control and ultimately kill her. He hit her over the head so she couldn't be revived and become a witness. There was no AEA.

 

[Linda7NJ]

How can 'sexual masochism,' the category under which this activity belongs possibly be applied to a 6 year old girl? This doesn't fit the description given in your link at all.

Nearly all of the cases of hyposyphilia have been post-puberty males. The whole article deals with males, masochism, and obsession with death. The practice is linked to mental disorders.

Can you please explain how a 6 year old girl has mental disorders, is a sexual masochist, having defied nature and past puberty?

Or is there a male who practiced AEA on her? Now that's out of the scope of your article completely, as AEA is listed in the 'sexual masochism' category.

JBR had a run-in with a pedophilic child-killer, who used a garrote to control and ultimately kill her. He hit her over the head so she couldn't be revived and become a witness. There was no AEA.

Why leave a ransom note? Why not remove the child from the home first?

 

[BlueCrab]

How can 'sexual masochism,' the category under which this activity belongs possibly be applied to a 6 year old girl?

HOTYH,

That's a good question, and the answer to it likely leads to the reason JonBenet is dead. IMO the person(s) who did this didn't know what they were doing. They were very young and probably experimenting with erotic asphyxiation, something they had heard about, but didn't appreciate the dangers (accidental asphyxiation) that go along with EA and AEA.

You're right about erotic asphyxiation being practiced almost exclusively among young males, but there are occasional female victims. In the JonBenet case the stun gun evidence suggests EA was involuntary on the part of JonBenet.

BlueCrab

 

[rashomon]

Such an odd figure in the ransom note, $118,000.00. If aussiesheila can come up with a scenario that causes my hair to fall out, how about this one. A twenty yr old young man can get terribly mad/angry at his father, IF he knows pops has a new pile of money and the young man WANTS a car er something very very special and pops says nooooooooooo.

I would say the twenty-year-old young man surely must have known that pop was a millionaire several times over - so why only demand those $118,000 dollars?

 

[rashomon]

PR called 911 after finding the RN. The killer got away while JR and the police were busy getting money.

That the Ramseys were 'busy getting money' is news to me.
Quite the contrary, the deadline had expired (when the alleged kidnappers said they would call again), and the Ramseys paid no attention to the deadline at all.

 

[UKGuy]

I would say the twenty-year-old young man surely must have known that pop was a millionaire several times over - so why only demand those $118,000 dollars?

I agree, its almost comical. The Ramsey's are millionaires and the ransomers only want a hundred thousand or so!

Other people have suggested that some elements of the ransom note were meants as cues or signifiers to another party e.g. a Ramsey.

That is the author knew full well that what was being constructed was fanciful, but had to be constrained to a particular genre. The RN was part of the crime scene staging, and its primary purpose may have been as part of a ridiculous cover-up, add in the cues and it can also work as an aide memoire to another reader?

Since the author goes to all the bother of inserting those quotes from movies, the threats etc, then only requests $118,000 dollars, well possibly the RN was both a screen play for another actor, as well as a device to deflect blame and attention away from inside the house towards the outside, and to a large extent it worked!