What do you think.....

  • #21
If there are two persons who know the truth and agree to protect each other,which one would risk leaving his/her handwriting behind,the killer?IMo NO.It's the other one.

Of course it's also possible that PR killed JB and wrote the note without JR knowing.

((shrug))
 
  • #22
I think that's what madeleine was asking.



You really think that's what happened? Because obviously I don't. Sophie's right: the Rs should THANK the police for giving them so many wildcard explanations for so many things.


Yeah, I think that is what happened for the most part. I certainly also think the Ramsey's would still be under an umbrella of suspicion but not to the degree that it ultimately turned out. LE had egg on their face so they went to the media more than necessary and it turned into this mess. Maybe ST never even writes a book.

I believe they made a mess and then kept digging a bigger and deeper hole. But I believe the truth will be known one day in the future. And we will find just how much an inexperience LE, DA's office, and the media in general damaged this case.
 
  • #23
Yeah, I think that is what happened for the most part. I certainly also think the Ramsey's would still be under an umbrella of suspicion but not to the degree that it ultimately turned out. LE had egg on their face so they went to the media more than necessary and it turned into this mess. Maybe ST never even writes a book.

That's a lot of maybes. Not that you're wrong, mind you. Still, it's hard to ignore just how much the Rs did to put themselves under the umbrella to begin with, as madeleine and Sophie have pointed out.

I believe they made a mess and then kept digging a bigger and deeper hole.

I'll give you this much: you can make a lot of little mistakes, but not too many big ones, because once the nose of that plane starts heading down it takes a lot to pull it back up.

But I believe the truth will be known one day in the future.

So do I, but probably in a different way than you're thinking.

And we will find just how much an inexperience LE, DA's office, and the media in general damaged this case.

You took the words right out of my mouth (hint hint).
 
  • #24
Roy, there is no question that you're right: errors by LE and the DA's office collectively had a devastating impact on this case. However, these errors worked for the Ramseys as well as against them. And the fact that the Ramseys didn't co-operate with police is the single most damaging thing ever to happen to this case (at least until Lacy's baffling actions last year). Even assuming they are innocent, they were the only people on God's green earth who could shed a real light on JBR's life and provide the narrative that could lead to an intruder being identified. It is that simple. The Ramseys certainly had a right to lawyer up. That isn't, IMO, the same as being right to do so or for following their lawyers' advice so blindly - especially in a policing regime that was known for its softly-softly approach to justice.

Similarly, the early media coverage was harmful to the Ramseys and put pressure on Boulder for which it just wasn't prepared, meaning that hasty and ill-thought our decisions were made. However, as DoI demonstrates, the Ramseys were able to turn this around to cast themselves in the role of victims ('The most persecuted individuals in the history of the United States' is the tack they take in DoI). The continued press interest in the case, supported by the growth of the Internet for news dissemination and discussion, actually kept the case in the spotlight where you'd assume they would want it to be. As the judge in the Fox case said, discussion of the case will keep it alive and anyone who wants this can't complain too much if the coverage is less than flattering to them personally.
 
  • #25
Roy, there is no question that you're right: errors by LE and the DA's office collectively had a devastating impact on this case. However, these errors worked for the Ramseys as well as against them. And the fact that the Ramseys didn't co-operate with police is the single most damaging thing ever to happen to this case (at least until Lacy's baffling actions last year). Even assuming they are innocent, they were the only people on God's green earth who could shed a real light on JBR's life and provide the narrative that could lead to an intruder being identified. It is that simple. The Ramseys certainly had a right to lawyer up. That isn't, IMO, the same as being right to do so or for following their lawyers' advice so blindly - especially in a policing regime that was known for its softly-softly approach to justice.

Similarly, the early media coverage was harmful to the Ramseys and put pressure on Boulder for which it just wasn't prepared, meaning that hasty and ill-thought our decisions were made. However, as DoI demonstrates, the Ramseys were able to turn this around to cast themselves in the role of victims ('The most persecuted individuals in the history of the United States' is the tack they take in DoI). The continued press interest in the case, supported by the growth of the Internet for news dissemination and discussion, actually kept the case in the spotlight where you'd assume they would want it to be. As the judge in the Fox case said, discussion of the case will keep it alive and anyone who wants this can't complain too much if the coverage is less than flattering to them personally.


:clap:
 
  • #26
yes Roy- I agree with you...I believe that one day, we will know the truth...
 
  • #27
I don't think we will ever know thew truth.....not unless it's IDI and we'll deal with another JMK.What are the odds.........a DNA match+confession?Not in a million years IMO.Without a confession (RDI,IDI) I don't see this case solved.Ever.If RDI, JR will never speak up.If IDI (big IF)he probably knows he has to hide and he's being very careful.

Maybe the only hope is to grill the friends again.One of the R's friends knows something IMO.Susan Stine would be my first choice.I read somewhere that she gave LE 31 reasons why they think FW is guilty (WTH?)Does anyone know anything about this?I understand why the R would want to point fingers at FW.....but why SS?I also wonder where Doug spent that night...was it maybe at the R's house?
 
  • #28
There's a very interesting topic at topix re the Stines....and after reading DOI I tend to agree that the Stines might know /hiding something.
 
  • #29
Madeleine- do u think that its worth reading DOI? i mean, I firmly believe that the Ramseys are guilty...why would i want to read a book where they CLAIM to be innocent...or is it worth doing so, because I might benefit from reading between the lines??
 
  • #30
IMO the Stines were called sometime during the night,and perhaps even came over.Interesting they weren't among those called that morning,even though they were supposedly the last to see JB alive, and could attest to that fact.IMO they weren't called bc at that point,they already knew too much.
If I may say so...DOI is worth reading,bc Patsy and John both leave many clues in it.Like John trying to account for his fresh prints on the walk in fridge and his underwear fibers near JB's bed.(read closely!!!!!)And things like Patsy whining that if LE did hear anything at the Stine's,it was nothing but a white noise machine (uh huh................).Her panic attack description is very interesting as well.................................indeed!
I'm sure there's more,that's just right off the top of my head..
 
  • #31
IMO the Stines were called sometime during the night,and perhaps even came over.Interesting they weren't among those called that morning,even though they were supposedly the last to see JB alive, and could attest to that fact.IMO they weren't called bc at that point,they already knew too much.
If I may say so...DOI is worth reading,bc Patsy and John both leave many clues in it.Like John trying to account for his fresh prints on the walk in fridge and his underwear fibers near JB's bed.(read closely!!!!!)And things like Patsy whining that if LE did hear anything at the Stine's,it was nothing but a white noise machine (uh huh................).Her panic attack description is very interesting as well.................................indeed!
I'm sure there's more,that's just right off the top of my head..

Agree, JMO: it's a gold mine.

Was just thinking of suggesting that we have a group read of it again for discussion purposes since it's so packed with inconsistencies thet we may catch a few we missed first time around...
 
  • #32
I don't think we will ever know thew truth.....not unless it's IDI and we'll deal with another JMK.What are the odds.........a DNA match+confession?Not in a million years IMO.Without a confession (RDI,IDI) I don't see this case solved.Ever.If RDI, JR will never speak up.If IDI (big IF)he probably knows he has to hide and he's being very careful.

Maybe the only hope is to grill the friends again.One of the R's friends knows something IMO.Susan Stine would be my first choice.I read somewhere that she gave LE 31 reasons why they think FW is guilty (WTH?)Does anyone know anything about this?I understand why the R would want to point fingers at FW.....but why SS?I also wonder where Doug spent that night...was it maybe at the R's house?


Madeleine, I admit that I find the Stines some of the most alarming people in this whole case. I just can't get my head around the prank on that journalist's poor wife and the abuse of the BPD police officer and, of course, why anyone would with any intelligence would go around impersonating Beckner when taunting the police is so often interpreted (by the likes of John Douglas) as being potentially indicative of guilty knowledge of a crime. I can't begin to imagine where Susan's head was when she went down that path. I imagine she regrets it now.

ETA: If she believes in Patsy's and John's innocence, how could she be so mean as to play those 'and hence' games with the 1997 Christmas letter? I don't think most RDI would have done that so I'm at a loss to see why she would do it. If there is anywhere where there's no room for 'humour' I'd have thought that was it. Besides which, the RN has such a p***-taking, sarky tone that you'd think people would want to distance themselves from similar writing enterprises....
 
  • #33
Agree, JMO: it's a gold mine.

Was just thinking of suggesting that we have a group read of it again for discussion purposes since it's so packed with inconsistencies thet we may catch a few we missed first time around...
great idea! if you highlighted the lies in it,you'd feel like you were reading the yellow pages of the phone book.
 
  • #34
Madeleine- do u think that its worth reading DOI? i mean, I firmly believe that the Ramseys are guilty...why would i want to read a book where they CLAIM to be innocent...or is it worth doing so, because I might benefit from reading between the lines??

Yes it was worth reading it.I wanted to hear the other side of the story.Was an interesting experience.Only bad thing about it is that I feel intoxicated by all the religious mambo jambo they use as an excuse.
 
  • #35
Madeleine, I admit that I find the Stines some of the most alarming people in this whole case. I just can't get my head around the prank on that journalist's poor wife and the abuse of the BPD police officer and, of course, why anyone would with any intelligence would go around impersonating Beckner when taunting the police is so often interpreted (by the likes of John Douglas) as being potentially indicative of guilty knowledge of a crime. I can't begin to imagine where Susan's head was when she went down that path. I imagine she regrets it now.

ETA: If she believes in Patsy's and John's innocence, how could she be so mean as to play those 'and hence' games with the 1997 Christmas letter? I don't think most RDI would have done that so I'm at a loss to see why she would do it. If there is anywhere where there's no room for 'humour' I'd have thought that was it. Besides which, the RN has such a p***-taking, sarky tone that you'd think people would want to distance themselves from similar writing enterprises....

Oh my....didn't you enjoy the parts when they tell how they were playing games with the journos?(R's and the Stine's)My my,the satisfaction....nothing re searching for the killer though.Pathetic and disgusting.
 
  • #36
I've always felt the Stines were there in the middle of the night and that's why they were not among those called that morning. They probably had just left. And I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't the only ones. JR himself said "there were a lot of people here at 3 in the morning".
SS's rabid behavior in defense of the Rs goes WAY beyond friendship and loyalty. It smacks of knowledge of guilt.
 
  • #37
I've always felt the Stines were there in the middle of the night and that's why they were not among those called that morning. They probably had just left. And I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't the only ones. JR himself said "there were a lot of people here at 3 in the morning".
SS's rabid behavior in defense of the Rs goes WAY beyond friendship and loyalty. It smacks of knowledge of guilt.
WORTH REPEATING!! :clap:
Indeed,things like SS's trolling the net,being so defensive,trying to get ppl to take sides as if it were a divorce..and that's probably just for starters...all just reeks of inside knowledge of the crime.
and that photo of them on the deck in MI...that just says it all.someone captured their true demeanor,and all 4 of them look like little kids with their hands in the cookie jar,thankful they got away with it!!
 

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