I agree Arndt knows more than she has said. I think she knew the family was involved from the start. But with the release of the GJ indictments, I think most people have to realize that the parents covered up for BR. There is really no other way to explain the findings. Possibly THAT day she suspected JR- because of his suspicious behavior and because he raced to the basement to "find" the body as soon as he could. Every cop knows that parents are usually the first suspects when they report a child missing who is later found dead in their own home. Doubly so when it is a parent that finds them! As a rape victim specialist, she was trained to view women as victims- and if she felt Patsy was involved at all, it was under pressure from JR. As the case unfolded, and remember she was present at the autopsy and heard the coroner say there had been ONGOING sexual abuse, she likely focused less on Patsy and more on the male family members.
What does Linda Arndt know?
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elannia
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I wpuld say she knows quite a bit. Especially after talking to PR while she was on her death bed. And also she said she has the information(dont remember her exact quote) for someone. And said PR was dealing with it for 10 years. And she wouldnt even come forward when ST asked her about that morning. She said she couldn't remember. Im sorry but you just dont forget things like that, especially when you are there when a supposedly kidnapped child is actually found to be murdered inside her home.
elannia,
Maybe Ramnesia is like Ebola, very infectuous. Nearly everyone on this case has memory deficits of one kind or another. I reckon the case was fixed, but it will all become public once JR passes on, BR cannot go from ignorant child to knowledgeable adult able to litigate over what his parents arranged! You cannot sue the dead, they own no extant reputations, it will be open season on the R's.
.
Oh, she didn't "forget". But by that time she had decided to sue the BPD. She felt that she had been made a scapegoat for the incompetency of the police investigation. She was right to a point, BUT she was instrumental in botching the case from the first day. She was the one who allowed people to roam around an unsecured crime scene and actually suggested that JR take a look around. That was when he jumped at the opportunity and "found" his daughter. Later, Arndt would say that she had expected him to go up to JB's room to see if anything was missing or suspicious, never expected him to make a beeline for the basement. Then after JB was brought up, she added to the contamination of the body by picking JB up herself and moving her under the Christmas Tree. This forever prevented any credence being given to fibers found on the sweatshirt or longjohns. However, it would not have contaminated clothing that was COVERED, such as the INSIDE of the panty crotch. It also allowed the body to be covered with an afghan throw and she herself covered part of her with a sweatshirt. All this lay squarely at the feet of Arndt. Eventually Arndt planed to write a book, and IMO that was what really caused her "ramnesia". She wanted to save what she knew or thought for her book. No point giving that away for free when she could sell it later. She never wrote the book- and that may have been part of any settlement with the BPD.
I feel for her. She was in way over her head. Being left alone with the Ramsey entourage for hours on end must have been a very uncomfortable situation. But, on the other hand I feel that she was very weak in that she did not take control of the scene. She sent John and Fleet on a discovery mission, simply because she couldn't handle the tension. That was just wrong. Had she gone and looked around in the basement and ordered everybody to stay put in the sunroom, the case would be in a lot better shape. To this day I still can't figure out why the police didn't do a complete search of the house from top to bottom? Wouldn't they be curious as to how a kidnapper got in and out of the house?
But did LA botch the case? Yes. But she had a lot of help.
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But did LA botch the case? Yes. But she had a lot of help.
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The first officer on the scene, Officer French, did take a cursory look around. He was the first one to actually be at the winecellar door - and was unwilling/unable to open it. Supposedly, he was upset with himself when he found that JB's un-tampered with corpse was just on the other side of that door he did not open. So yes, Arndt had a lot of help botching the case. At that early stage, this was being investigated as a kidnapping. I think the police felt they did not really need to take close look at the house itself. However, the house was still a crime scene, kidnapping or not. Sure, they did not expect to find the kidnapped child in her home. After all, the kidnapping lie was told in order to direct the search away from the house and (much more important) the family. But most police would still need and want to search the home thoroughly. In every crime, something is left at the crime scene. Prints, fibers, etc. Some perps even leave personal items like phones, keys, incriminating documents like receipts, etc. In THIS case, one of the reasons IDI is so unlikely is the total absence of anything belonging to someone outside the family. I completely discount the touch DNA because, until it is identified by NAME, it just has no tie to the crime itself. It appears NO WHERE else. The ONLY fiber/print/receipts associated with this crime belong to the family.
I get that they weren't expecting to find her. But the fact that she suggested that JR and FW go hunt for clues (obviously a dumb move) simply because she was uncomfortable sitting with them was her first blunder. Her second screw up was moving the body from where JR had deposited it and covering it with what appeared to be a scarf or blanket (if Schiller's movie was accurate).
Those two mistakes show exactly how bad a cop LA was. Nonetheless, her observations about how the Ramsey's carried themselves that day are invaluable.
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Those two mistakes show exactly how bad a cop LA was. Nonetheless, her observations about how the Ramsey's carried themselves that day are invaluable.
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What she is supposed to have said to JR was for him to "take another look around to see if anything's out of place or missing". This was after calling her boss and complaining about the lack of back-up and saying she "lost track" of JR. Her boss told her to "give him something to do". She claims she was shocked when he immediately headed for the basement and "found" JB. I believe it was JR who threw an afghan over JB- but Arndt supposedly threw a sweatshirt over JB's face. And, yes, she should have known better. Schiller's movie, like the book, has its share of inaccuracies, but there is a lot that is correct, too.
midwest mama
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DeeDee, do you recall if John Fernie was also supposedly sent with JR and FW to check, and if Arndt specifically said they should look from "top to bottom"? IIRC, all three men went off to look around, with Fernie going upstairs, and JR and FW heading straight for the basement, which was what surprised Arndt.
I think this info was in Kolar's book, and my books are all gathered into a storage bag right now still waiting for me to get them unpacked after my move last year. With no significant information or changes happening on progressing this case, I am procrastinating on checking facts, but cannot give up hope on learning that something might eventually come to light that will give someone reason to believe they can get this case solved.
I had high hopes that Kolar's book would finally erode the constraints that have kept this crime from coming unraveled, but now I think that unless Fleet White, Burke or one of the Paughs give up some helpful information, it will rival "Jack the Ripper" for historical longevity of an unsolved cold case.
Unfortunately I don't think this case will ever be solved. John and Burke will never talk and god knows why Fleet White has remained silent all these years? The Internet is inundated with Ramsey produced propaganda videos pointing people in every direction but at the truth. I think the public generally feels that they are innocent now because the grand jury said so (although it actually said the opposite).
Because this case happened within that house, because evidence was planted and because evidence was destroyed, the only way this case was ever going to be solved would have been to have the Ramsey's turn on one and other. That would have required immediate separate interviews, confronting each of them with the others inconsistencies, and finally arresting them. I believe patsy would have cracked like a nut if she had been led away in cuffs, possibly to spend the rest of her life in jail. The difference between her first and second interview is astounding. In the first she is frightened, trying to appear cooperative, but having convenient lapses in memory when needed. In the second interview she is defiant and confident. She knows the police have nothing to prosecute any of them with, so she can be more assertive about it.
IMO Boulder cops have no idea who did this, but I do believe that they are 100% certain it was someone in that house. Maybe one, maybe two, maybe all three. With the only three witnesses being the only three suspects, that's going to be a tough case to crack.
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Because this case happened within that house, because evidence was planted and because evidence was destroyed, the only way this case was ever going to be solved would have been to have the Ramsey's turn on one and other. That would have required immediate separate interviews, confronting each of them with the others inconsistencies, and finally arresting them. I believe patsy would have cracked like a nut if she had been led away in cuffs, possibly to spend the rest of her life in jail. The difference between her first and second interview is astounding. In the first she is frightened, trying to appear cooperative, but having convenient lapses in memory when needed. In the second interview she is defiant and confident. She knows the police have nothing to prosecute any of them with, so she can be more assertive about it.
IMO Boulder cops have no idea who did this, but I do believe that they are 100% certain it was someone in that house. Maybe one, maybe two, maybe all three. With the only three witnesses being the only three suspects, that's going to be a tough case to crack.
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~rsbm~
It’s said without truth there is no justice. Whatever truth about JB’s life and death is learned, it’s very likely and sadly, the only justice she will receive. As others have commented, it’s doubtful the case will ever be prosecuted, but in some ways it may be a little like the Chinese water torture for the remaining family, the drip, drip, drip of clues and discussions. With the disclosure of the True Bills, perhaps some think there won’t be anything else revealed. I've heard both Charlie Brennan and Kolar suggest there will be more to come. I could be wrong, but I’m not so sure this is over, in terms of learning more about JB’s death. moo
Agreed, JR and BR are unlikely to talk, and we may never know with certainty who did what. But one of the notable aspects of this case is that even after AH said no one would be charged, as he placed the True Bills in the safe, folks could not digest and accept that there wasn’t evidence which implicated the Rs. (Not everyone on this forum, I recognize.) Books written, forums continued, ACR expanded, interviews with the Rs which continued into the year 2000. So, imho, there are still folks out there who may choose to speak after JR passes. People like LHP, JP or her husband “Doc” Miller who published his book in Japan, Holly Smith, or FW, any of them might choose to open up more in public. The details we now know are significantly greater than they were in the year 1999, even after ST published his book.
It’s said without truth there is no justice. Whatever truth about JB’s life and death is learned, it’s very likely and sadly, the only justice she will receive. As others have commented, it’s doubtful the case will ever be prosecuted, but in some ways it may be a little like the Chinese water torture for the remaining family, the drip, drip, drip of clues and discussions. With the disclosure of the True Bills, perhaps some think there won’t be anything else revealed. I've heard both Charlie Brennan and Kolar suggest there will be more to come. I could be wrong, but I’m not so sure this is over, in terms of learning more about JB’s death. moo
midwest mama
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Boy, do I hope you are right. I still can't get past the reference the GJ made to the Ramsey's assisting someone who they knew had committed "first degree murder". I can't make a connection between that verbiage and Burke's guilt, since he was too young to be charged with a crime of any sort. IMO, I have to think an adult was the perpetrator.
I think that the GJ findings simply inferred that one of the three remaining Ramsey's commuted the murder, but there is simply no evidence to prove which one it was. However there is plenty of evidence to prove that J&P were involved in the coverup. Obviously the staging was well beyond the grasp of a nine year old boy, but that certainly doesn't mean that he didn't deliver the head blow. J or P likely committed the murder with the Garrote, but which one?
I would have dearly loved to see the GJs findings persued, but I fear that the Rs well paid forensic experts would have picked apart the DNA and fibre evidence, none of the Ramsey's would have testified, and they would have been acquitted for insufficient evidence.
Then we would have had to listen to another decade of John Ramsey spouting off about how the highest court saying they were innocent.
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midwest mama,
Thats the real deal. The R's were allegedly implicated in assisting someone to commit "first degree murder", they must have had the evidence to make the case.
So if the parents were charged with neglect or failing to prevent abuse etc, then surely that points to both the chronic and acute aspects of JonBenet's injuries?
Beyond the parents there is BR, and if he cannot be charged with anything, then a discreet coverup is in order, with AH declining to sign off anything, and all and sundry colluding in an Intruder Homicide, including Lou Smit, who was definitely on board, this might explain why nothing was said when he published his slides outlining his Intruder Theory.
This case reads like a Greek Tragedy with the possibility of BR assaulting JonBenet, and any other R in the past, along comes PR and JR to stage a crime-scene and have to, knowingly or not, kill their own daughter to preserve the remaining family.
For me the best theory is BDI, since any of the parents do not need to physically assault JonBenet to restrain her, looks like BR flipped that night and the rest is history.
The case is not over yet, there will be more to come, all those juicy documentaries as participants and friends offer their accounts once JR has left this earth. Then there will be the release of forensic evidence to the media with profilers constructing whodunnit scenarios. LW will not be able to stop it since two of the main suspects will be dead, and the other one, well he will living somewhere in obscurity, attempting to live a normal life and avoid being door-stepped for quotes on Who do you think killed JonBenet?
Without BR doing a deal, and becoming a prosecution witness, and why should he, the case will never go to court!
Do not forget evidence such as the R's cellphone and home phone metadata will always be available, that stuff is never destroyed, and someone somewhere might have a copy. Also one day Steve Thomas or Kolar will just state during some interview whether there were any Wednesday Bloomingdale size-6 underwear in her drawer.
The BPD were quick to rule out an intruder bringing the size-12's into the house by asking PR if she purchased them etc, but nothing was said about any size-6 underwear leaving the house, not one question!
.
As you mentioned phones, I was reading Patsy's last police interview the other day and something struck me as odd. She was being asked about the note and how much she read. In her previous statements she gave conflicting reports saying she only read the first few lines, but then later gives details of other parts of the note when she says she remembers standing at the door thinking how the the note said not to call LE and that JB would be beheaded. In this interview she states that before she called 911 she was standing over JR as he read the note on the floor in the hallway. She says that certain things pop off the page at her. Her quote is something to the effect of "I'm kind of standing behind John you know, and I've got the phone in my hand...". Now from what I understand the phone she was to purported to have used was in the kitchen and was not cordless. John had the note on the floor by the staircase. Why would Patsy have the phone in her hand? Would the cord even reach that far? Did she even use that phone? I've said before that I believe that everything the Ramsey's have said is a lie, so I guess it's entirely possible that the call was made from anywhere in that house. I wonder if there would have been a way to prove which phone was used?
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I don't think there is a way to prove which phone in a house was the one that made the call. Whether corded or cordless, the phone LINE is the same either way- the base unit in a cordless system still has to jack into the phone line, same as a corded phone. Moot point anyway. We all know how FAST that house was returned to the family and subsequently sold to a group of R "friends and investors" who promptly pulled up every carpet and pulled off all the wallpaper - painted every wall white. The furniture was packed, along with all the contents, and shipped to the Rs new home in Atlanta. This made sure that no one could go back and examine anything.
DeeDee249,
Every phone has a unique ID which is sent as part of the call exchange so that any reply can reach the correct device in a house with many phones, albeit on the same line.
Anyway we know that PR's version of events was manufactured, hence other people querying where was she when she made the call, expose the inconsistencies in her version.
Presumably when Patsy lies over the size-12's she is not lying on her own behalf, she must be lying on someone else's behalf, i.e. JR or BR.
That is, Patsy is completely onboard the R's staging setup, contrary to some other theories?
.
ScarlettScarpetta
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I agree. Especially in 1990's.. Today not so much but then, I agree.
The police could have had the house as long as they wanted it. You can not fault people for wanting to take it back, change it and make it so it could sell and not look like the crime scene pictures. You can only blame the R's for things in their control. Not the police making mistakes and handing back the house and not securing the crime scene and making sure it was properly searched. That would lay in the police's lap. They were the ones who were supposed to know what they were doing and control the scene and people. That lays in LA lap. IMO.
Agreed, but many times when a child is killed, a parent will try to keep the home, specifically the child's room, exactly how it was left. I think that it was somewhat telling that the Ramsey's never entered that house again after Dec 26. There are goo and bad ghosts, and for some reason the Rs didn't want to face the ghosts in that house.
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I'm not sure Linda Arndt had a "secret." I think the scene she came upon was just so out of sink, and the behavior of the parents so bizarre, her antenna went up. I'm also one who gives a lot of credence to women's intuition. Not much was normal there and I think when John carried his dead, stiff daughter up and laid her on the floor, she became afraid. I sure as heck would have been. By that time Patsy was all drugged up, the house was full of strangers and there is a six year old whose body has ties and tape. BPD did not send her help and the crime scene, body and surrounding was immediately compromised. A mess from the get go.
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