What evidence does the prosecution have?

[vlpate]

But, what Alan Dershowitz says, we should all believe? :waitasec:

For what it's worth, I don't believe any of the talking heads.

Yes, Dershowitz is an attorney, Wheeler is not an audio forensic expert.

 

[AngelWings444]

Please provide a source, or link that proves "There is absolutely zero evidence that Trayvon was smoking pot" is not a false statement. We do not know if there is evidence he was, or was not; the autopsy report will be that evidence, and it is currently sealed.

By the way, if LE took some/any of Zimmermans clothes that night, I am sure they are in the possession of the Prosecution now. Those clothes should/would have some of Zimmerman's blood on them. Can they possibly do a tox screen on that blood now?

They did a tox screen on Martin as part of the autopsy. IIRC it's standard operating procedure at autopsies. They didn't single Martin out by doing a tox screen on him.

It twas I that made that statement. There is zero evidence that Trayvon was smoking pot the evening he was killed. Just like, there is zero evidence that GZ crashed his car that night. Just an example, don't need people starting a rumor that GZ crashed his car. As of today, we have zero evidence of those types of things. It may change, but as of today, zero evidence. :what:

 

[AngelWings444]

Yes, Dershowitz is an attorney, Wheeler is not an audio forensic expert.

Most of us here, know more about the case than Dershowitz. I tend to not believe attorneys all the time, especially the paid, talking head ones. :floorlaugh:

I doubt, the prosecution is looking at him for advice. :what:

 

[Deleted member 39678]

But, what Alan Dershowitz says, we should all believe? :waitasec:

For what it's worth, I don't believe any of the talking heads.

I personally feel that what talking heads say is not evidence and I value some of them more than others in regards to their knowledge of the law and how it relates to this case.

 

[K_Z]

The other suspensions could've been alternative to out-of-school (ATOSS) where they get excused absences and teachers can allow them to make up work or in-school suspension (ISS) where they still go to school and work independentally.

BBM

I feel the same way and I know my dad would have grounded me forever.

One thing that I have been wondering is if Trayvon was in jeopardy of failing the school year because of all the days he was suspended? When a student is suspended, it is my understanding that those days are considered unexcused absences. (At least that is how it was when my son's were in school.) Since the days are unexcused, the school work missed can't be made up and the student would fail any missed test. On top of that, the days suspended count towards the amount of days a student may be absent in the grading period. I'm not sure what the school policy is at the school Trayvon attended, but where my son's went to school being suspended for 10days would have put a student in jeopardy of failing that grading period or possibly the school year. I know things change, but I just ask some friends with high school aged children and there still is an amount of days a student can be absent in one grading period and for the entire school year. At our local school its 7 days in a 9 week grading period. Unless there is a doctors excuse a student can be held back. Maybe someone knows the policy for suspended days and the attendance policy at Trayvon's school.

This is the grading policy for both in school ("indoor") and out of school ("outdoor") suspensions at Michael S. Krop High School.

http://74.53.27.98/~mkhscom/Information Files/Attendance-Tardy-Policies.pdf

http://74.53.27.98/~mkhscom/attendance.htm

B. Suspensions.
Under no circumstances are teachers required to make special provisions
to comply with this procedure. The responsibility for securing written assignments missed
during the suspension period will be the responsibility of the student.

1. Outdoor Suspension
a. The class absences accrued by a student who is placed on outdoor
suspension are to be recorded by the teacher using the appropriate code
in the grade book.
b. A student who is placed on an outdoor suspension is expected to
makeup all written assignments missed during the suspension period.
c. Failure to makeup assignments will result in the student being given an
academic grade of F for those assignments.
d. It is the student's responsibility to request makeup assignments and
complete all work no later than two weeks following the outdoor
suspension.

e. Additionally, the student will not be subject to the withholding of passing
grades unless he or she has, in addition to the suspension, attained five
or more unexcused class absences in a designated semester course or
ten or more unexcused absences in an annual course.


2. Indoor Suspension
a. The class absences accrued by a student who is placed on indoor
suspension are to be recorded by the teacher using the appropriate code
in the grade book.
b. A student who is placed on indoor suspension is expected to makeup all
written assignments missed during the suspension period.
c. Failure to makeup assignments will result in the student being given an
academic grade of F for those assignments.
d. It is the student's responsibility to request makeup assignments and
complete all work as negotiated with the teacher.
e. All absences associated with indoor suspensions are recorded as
excused absences in your grade book.

Regarding participation in sports and extracurricular activities and suspensions:
(Same link as above)

E. A student who is serving an Outdoor Suspension cannot practice or participate in
interscholastic sports, competitions, or performances and may be subject to further
sanctions or penalties.
F. A student who has a total of eleven (11) cumulative days of suspension (indoor and
outdoor) will not be allowed to participate in interscholastic competitions or performances
for the remainder of the school year.

 

[Sun48shine]

It appears there is over 3 minutes between the call that ended with dispatch and the gunshot. iirc it was 45 seconds (approx) that the "fighting" ""hollowing" was heard, so that leaves over 2 minutes probably more like 2:30 of time. jmo That's a lot of time.

What time would count for the running around the truck 3 times and hiding? The time period that things supposedly happened, still makes me wonder what really happened?

 

[Reader]

Sorry to tell you what you already know. I don't think I said it could be said as a fact that he has a record. I think what I said is that we don't know. I only mentioned it b/c the OP said that Trayvon had no history of violence as a fact, iirc.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Thanks for your help...but the poster I was quoting did state as a fact that Trayvon had a history of violence and that was my question.

 

[vlpate]

I personally feel that what talking heads say is not evidence and I value some of them more than others in regards to their knowledge of the law and how it relates to this case.

"The prosecution’s goal, Dershowitz explained, is to present all the details and evidence of the case in order to pursue justice, not merely to seek justice solely for one side of the case."Link

“We continue to pray for Trayvon’s family and the prosecution team. … Remember it is Trayvon’s family who are constitutional victims.” - Angela Corey
CNN Link

 

[vlpate]

Thanks for your help...but the poster I was quoting did state as a fact that Trayvon had a history of violence and that was my question.

If this is the post you are referring to, I never said Trayvon had a documented history of violence. I didn't even say he had a history of violence. Maybe you misunderstood?

Originally Posted by vlpate
IMO, and judging from his 3 expulsions in 5 months, TM was the one with a very recent disrespect for authority and zero tolerance rules, not to mention accountability. No one was fuzzy with the rules, no one said, "we don't need you to deface school property", or, "we don't need you to bring drugs to school", or, "we need you to show up on time". Their rules are pretty clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vlpate
Only one of them has a history of documented violence. WS Link

 

[vlpate]

It twas I that made that statement. There is zero evidence that Trayvon was smoking pot the evening he was killed. Just like, there is zero evidence that GZ crashed his car that night. Just an example, don't need people starting a rumor that GZ crashed his car. As of today, we have zero evidence of those types of things. It may change, but as of today, zero evidence. :what:

Same with GZ being drunk, zero evidence, as some have suggested. If the officers had felt he was drunk, they'd have given him a field sobriety test. We don't know for certain that they did not.

 

[vlpate]

This is the grading policy for both in school ("indoor") and out of school ("outdoor") suspensions at Michael S. Krop High School.

http://74.53.27.98/~mkhscom/Information Files/Attendance-Tardy-Policies.pdf

http://74.53.27.98/~mkhscom/attendance.htm

B. Suspensions.
Under no circumstances are teachers required to make special provisions
to comply with this procedure. The responsibility for securing written assignments missed
during the suspension period will be the responsibility of the student.

1. Outdoor Suspension
a. The class absences accrued by a student who is placed on outdoor
suspension are to be recorded by the teacher using the appropriate code
in the grade book.
b. A student who is placed on an outdoor suspension is expected to
makeup all written assignments missed during the suspension period.
c. Failure to makeup assignments will result in the student being given an
academic grade of F for those assignments.
d. It is the student's responsibility to request makeup assignments and
complete all work no later than two weeks following the outdoor
suspension.

e. Additionally, the student will not be subject to the withholding of passing
grades unless he or she has, in addition to the suspension, attained five
or more unexcused class absences in a designated semester course or
ten or more unexcused absences in an annual course.


2. Indoor Suspension
a. The class absences accrued by a student who is placed on indoor
suspension are to be recorded by the teacher using the appropriate code
in the grade book.
b. A student who is placed on indoor suspension is expected to makeup all
written assignments missed during the suspension period.
c. Failure to makeup assignments will result in the student being given an
academic grade of F for those assignments.
d. It is the student's responsibility to request makeup assignments and
complete all work as negotiated with the teacher.
e. All absences associated with indoor suspensions are recorded as
excused absences in your grade book.

Regarding participation in sports and extracurricular activities and suspensions:
(Same link as above)

E. A student who is serving an Outdoor Suspension cannot practice or participate in
interscholastic sports, competitions, or performances and may be subject to further
sanctions or penalties.
F. A student who has a total of eleven (11) cumulative days of suspension (indoor and
outdoor) will not be allowed to participate in interscholastic competitions or performances
for the remainder of the school year.

:welcome5:​

 

[Karmady]

Most of us here, know more about the case than Dershowitz. I tend to not believe attorneys all the time, especially the paid, talking head ones. :floorlaugh:

I doubt, the prosecution is looking at him for advice. :what:

Dershowitz has no horse in this race, and the only necessary basis for his comments were the probably cause affidavit and the murder 2 standard. No need to know anything else for him to conclude that it was a , and O'Mara did a really very, very, nice job, imo, of establishing just that (I hadn't watched the bail hearing until a couple of days ago).

 

[Karmady]

Thanks for your help...but the poster I was quoting did state as a fact that Trayvon had a history of violence and that was my question.

Oh, right, the swing at the bus driver? Well, it's in the msm, so I suppose it's fair game.

 

[AngelWings444]

Same with GZ being drunk, zero evidence, as some have suggested. If the officers had felt he was drunk, they'd have given him a field sobriety test. We don't know for certain that they did not.

Some have suggested that GZ was drunk that night, based on his speech on the non-911 call.

BBM - IMO, there is one of the many problems with this case. The officers "felt" like they didn't have to do quite a few things, based on what has been released. The Justice department is investigated the police department, based on their handling of this case. We sure can't trust they did all the right things that night. IMO, they should have done a drug/alcohol test on GZ. He killed someone. Maybe they did and maybe they didn't. IF they didn't, IMO, that was a huge error on their part. If they didn't collect evidence, like GZ's coat, shirt, when he went to the police department that night, as one would think they should, another huge error on their part.

Have we figured out when we will have a document dump? :banghead:

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Oh, right, the swing at the bus driver? Well, it's in the msm, so I suppose it's fair game.

I think the alleged swing at the bus driver is on the same level of veracity as the alleged incident where GZ supposedly 'threw a drunk woman' across a room/

Neither of the stories have been verified, but if one is going to be accepted as 'truth', then so should the other, imo.

 

[Karmady]

Some have suggested that GZ was drunk that night, based on his speech on the non-911 call.

BBM - IMO, there is one of the many problems with this case. The officers "felt" like they didn't have to do quite a few things, based on what has been released. The Justice department is investigated the police department, based on their handling of this case. We sure can't trust they did all the right things that night. IMO, they should have done a drug/alcohol test on GZ. He killed someone. Maybe they did and maybe they didn't. IF they didn't, IMO, that was a huge error on their part. If they didn't collect evidence, like GZ's coat, shirt, when he went to the police department that night, as one would think they should, another huge error on their part.

Have we figured out when we will have a document dump? :banghead:

JMO

You can't just blood and alcohol test someone who's not under arrest (at least not without a court order in most cases). Here, because of the potential immunity, SPD referred the matter to the prosecutor immediately, and he determined that there was insufficient cause to arrest George without potentially running afoul of the immunity statute. So the fact that there's no blood and alcohol on George is most certainly not a huge mistake, just a product of insufficient evidence to arrest George and subject him to testing.

Not to mention the fact that he was obviously not drunk, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to orchestrate his extremely clever plot or walk with perfect precision while in handcuffs at the SPD, among other things. jmo

 

[Karmady]

I think the alleged swing at the bus driver is on the same level of veracity as the alleged incident where GZ supposedly 'threw a drunk woman' across a room/

Neither of the stories have been verified, but if one is going to be accepted as 'truth', then so should the other, imo.

I don't have an opinion on the truth of it or not. Although I will say that a contemporaneous communication to Travyon about his behavior has far more credibility in my eyes than a statement made to the media in a high profile case about an incident that occurred many years ago. jmo

 

[Reader]

If this is the post you are referring to, I never said Trayvon had a documented history of violence. I didn't even say he had a history of violence. Maybe you misunderstood?

So, this is a quote of my original question if this pertained to Trayvon still with no answer....I will assume there is no document that he had a history of violence, thanks

 

[jaded cat]

You can't just blood and alcohol test someone who's not under arrest (at least not without a court order in most cases). Here, because of the potential immunity, SPD referred the matter to the prosecutor immediately, and he determined that there was insufficient cause to arrest George without potentially running afoul of the immunity statute. So the fact that there's no blood and alcohol on George is most certainly not a huge mistake, just a product of insufficient evidence to arrest George and subject him to testing.

Not to mention the fact that he was obviously not drunk, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to orchestrate his extremely clever plot or walk with perfect precision while in handcuffs at the SPD, among other things. jmo

BBM

That's part of the the problem with this kind of law and CCW. I think shooting someone should be investigated like any other killing. Suspects are given their rights, get a tox screen done and have a lawyer/public defender. I don't think anyone should be able to walk away from shooting someone else without a thorough investigation.

This case will be handled by the law as written now. I hope Florida tweaks the law a little, more focused.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

You can't just blood and alcohol test someone who's not under arrest (at least not without a court order in most cases). Here, because of the potential immunity, SPD referred the matter to the prosecutor immediately, and he determined that there was insufficient cause to arrest George without potentially running afoul of the immunity statute. So the fact that there's no blood and alcohol on George is most certainly not a huge mistake, just a product of insufficient evidence to arrest George and subject him to testing.

Not to mention the fact that he was obviously not drunk, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to orchestrate his extremely clever plot or walk with perfect precision while in handcuffs at the SPD, among other things. jmo

LE can ask them to take any test they want. Are you thinking they asked George and he refused so they would need a court order or warrant?