What happened to Rebecca Zahau?

What do you think happened to Rebecca Zahau?

  • It was a suicide.

    Votes: 31 13.1%
  • It was not a suicide.

    Votes: 50 21.2%
  • It was a hired hit.

    Votes: 22 9.3%
  • It was a murder committed by someone angry about Max's accident.

    Votes: 106 44.9%
  • I am unsure of what really happened (on the fence).

    Votes: 27 11.4%

  • Total voters
    236
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The 911 call about Max's fall was made by someone other than RZ. Who was it???? What is their version of what happened? On Dr. Phil it said the evidence was Max's razor scooter was involved with the stair railing as there were paint scrapes on the railing and the paint was transferred to the scooter. I think it's possible that the unidentified 911 caller (who I believe was a young person) helped Max position himself to ride his scooter down the stair railing in an evil knieval type stunt that went awry.

The new photos shown on Dr. Phil of Max's scooter w/ paint scrapes reinforced my thoughts when the story of this accident first made the news - that Max may have waited until both RZ and her sister were occupied to try out a new stunt with his scooter on the stair banister. As a mom of boys, that's typical behavior for a kid - to wait until the adults are in the bathroom/shower to try something they're forbidden to do. Unfortunately, it resulted in a tragic accident.

Before the show, there wasn't much evidence about paint transfer/damage on the scooter itself, but this information clears things up.
 
The new photos shown on Dr. Phil of Max's scooter w/ paint scrapes reinforced my thoughts when the story of this accident first made the news - that Max may have waited until both RZ and her sister were occupied to try out a new stunt with his scooter on the stair banister. As a mom of boys, that's typical behavior for a kid - to wait until the adults are in the bathroom/shower to try something they're forbidden to do. Unfortunately, it resulted in a tragic accident.

Before the show, there wasn't much evidence about paint transfer/damage on the scooter itself, but this information clears things up.
I concur. Has been my initial thoughts.
 
Sadly,I do not think that is conclusive. Max might have scrapped the paint on the staircase BEFORE the attack on him began. In fact, the damage to the staircase, the misbehavior, could have caused an attack. Unfortunately for all involved, we cannot "date" the paint scrappings on the scooter. Therefore, we all can assume our own scenario.

This is part of what makes determining victims vs villians so darn difficult.
 
Sadly,I do not think that is conclusive. Max might have scrapped the paint on the staircase BEFORE the attack on him began. In fact, the damage to the staircase, the misbehavior, could have caused an attack. Unfortunately for all involved, we cannot "date" the paint scrappings on the scooter. Therefore, we all can assume our own scenario.

This is part of what makes determining victims vs villians so darn difficult.


Why does the accident have to include an attack?

Dr. Melinek did not do the autopsy. She did not recreate the attack to show how the railing caused the injuries. Imo, to say she knows how the injuries occurred without scientific verification and measurement is an assumption and speculation.

Did she test samples from the scooter, railing and chandelier via laboratory analysis or does she rely on her interpretation the photos she saw. If she wants to accuse a specific person of murder then she should have some valid scientific proof to back it up. After all her reputation as an expert and a doctor are at stake here.

Can Dr. Melinek be sued by Rebecca's family for defamation? I know Rebecca's dead so she cannot be harmed but are there any laws on the books about causing mental anguish to a family by defaming their deceased family member's character? Does anyone know the answer to this?
 
It does not have to include an attack. But it could. Just as RZ's death could be a simple suicide. The authorities have investigated and claimed both cases are simply an accident and a suicide.

But speculation ON EACH continues. I'm just pointing out that DS's point of view can also be defended. It would be easy to write a speculative post on either of these deaths from BOTH points of view. BUT DS's point of view can be defended too.

When I see posts that critique only ONE side..to me, that is "team spirit" not sleuthing. Not treating BOTH sides objectively. I don't agree with everything DS or her experts have said..nor do I agree with everything that RZ's family has postulated. A discussion of the evidence free of Team Spirit would be so much more productive IMO.
 
SMM... at this point it sounds like you just keep criticizing other posters for not being fair/objective - but that's your view.
 
SMM... at this point it sounds like you just keep criticizing other posters for not being fair/objective - but that's your view.

No. All of us bring a bit of ourselves to these Boards. We place our empathy based partly on our own history. I understand that.

I just have spend weeks reading here such harsh criticism of DS...such snark and suspicion of a grieving Mother. Many who defended her have just left ...probably from emotional exhaustion.

I do feel for DS. But I think that RZ's family deserves a review of her case as well. I just think that , in any case that any of us "sleuths"....an open mind, uncommitted to either side, is an asset. This case is a real puzzler and a heartbreaker, because we do not know if there was a murder in either case . We do not know villian or victim. But WS, wisely in my opinion, has deemed BOTH Rz and DS "victims". So I think t gives balance to help present DS's point of view...and afford her some degree of true sympathy for her loss.
 
No. All of us bring a bit of ourselves to these Boards. We place our empathy based partly on our own history. I understand that.

I just have spend weeks reading here such harsh criticism of DS...such snark and suspicion of a grieving Mother. Many who defended her have just left ...probably from emotional exhaustion.

I do feel for DS. But I think that RZ's family deserves a review of her case as well. I just think that , in any case that any of us "sleuths"....an open mind, uncommitted to either side, is an asset. This case is a real puzzler and a heartbreaker, because we do not know if there was a murder in either case . We do not know villian or victim. But WS, wisely in my opinion, has deemed BOTH Rz and DS "victims". So I think t gives balance to help present DS's point of view...and afford her some degree of true sympathy for her loss.

SMM, I believe that Rebecca's case has been "sleuthed" far more thoroughly than it was investigated and that might be the problem with many of the "sleuthers" like myself. SDSO failed to provide substantive proof that Rebecca committed suicide while also totally failing to perform a proper murder investigation. Many like myself tried to figure out what happened. That would not have been necessary if the police had done a logical, factual and scientific investigation.

Some examples of a non scientifically done investigation include but are not limited to a non existent voice mail, illogical belief in Rebecca's cirque du soleil talent, lack of analysis of the nonsensical message on the door, lack of a logical explanation for the head and other injuries, bloodshed, duct tape residue, gag, bindings and lack of analysis of other crucial evidence.

Max's case did not present the same problems. The parents, especially Jonah did not immediately protest the findings of Max's investigation. Jonah was fully in charge and he thanked every one associated with the case.

Why weren't Dr. Peterson's findings pursued? At what point were they dropped as Jonah accepted the ruling of accidental injury? Why did Jonah quickly remodel the mansion? What does Dina have to say about that? Why didn't Jonah allow the Zahaus entry without SDSO? Why did he lie and say he sold the mansion when it was still under his control? None of that looks good.

I wonder why anyone would be surprised at the interest in this case? You would think if Jonah really wanted peace he would have cooperated with the Zahaus. Instead he came off looking like a bad guy and now Dina's paid expert is accusing Rebecca of murder. It really comes off as unfairly bashing a dead woman without any proof what so ever.

Gore did not prove that Rebecca killed herself and Dr. Melinek did not prove that Rebecca killed Max. It really does seem like Rebecca is taking a terrible bashing too, imo. Also, I believe everyone here has expressed sympathy for Dina's loss and everyone wants both cases properly investigated but that does not mean they must also agree with Dr. Melinek's findings or Gore's conclusions.
 
No. All of us bring a bit of ourselves to these Boards. We place our empathy based partly on our own history. I understand that.

I just have spend weeks reading here such harsh criticism of DS...such snark and suspicion of a grieving Mother. Many who defended her have just left ...probably from emotional exhaustion.

I do feel for DS. But I think that RZ's family deserves a review of her case as well. I just think that , in any case that any of us "sleuths"....an open mind, uncommitted to either side, is an asset. This case is a real puzzler and a heartbreaker, because we do not know if there was a murder in either case . We do not know villian or victim. But WS, wisely in my opinion, has deemed BOTH Rz and DS "victims". So I think t gives balance to help present DS's point of view...and afford her some degree of true sympathy for her loss.

This thread is really about what happened to Rebecca. I don't see what it has to do with chiding others for lack of empathy for Dina. You are welcome to present DS's point of view and give her your sympathy.
 
This thread is really about what happened to Rebecca. I don't see what it has to do with chiding others for lack of empathy for Dina. You are welcome to present DS's point of view and give her your sympathy.

I totally agree. Well-put! :)
 
Why would Rebecca have a 13 year old call 911, instead of calling it herself?

I don't know, I guess it is difficult to perform CPR and be on the phone at the same time. :waitasec: Which is more urgent... fortunately Rebecca had someone there who was capable enough to call 911 while she tried to help Max. This seems to be a moot point to me and is sort of off topic for this thread unless you can relate it back to what happened to Rebecca.

Are you saying that someone was so infuriated that she did not call 911 herself that they took it out on Rebecca and that ended in her committing suicide or being murdered?
 
I don't know, I guess it is difficult to perform CPR and be on the phone at the same time. :waitasec: Which is more urgent... fortunately Rebecca had someone there who was capable enough to call 911 while she tried to help Max. This seems to be a moot point to me and is sort of off topic for this thread unless you can relate it back to what happened to Rebecca.

Are you saying that someone was so infuriated that she did not call 911 herself that they took it out on Rebecca and that ended in her committing suicide or being murdered?

Because of the nature of the head and neck injuries, I don't think that CPR would have made one bit of difference in the outcome for Max. <modsnip>.
 
I don't know, I guess it is difficult to perform CPR and be on the phone at the same time. :waitasec: Which is more urgent... fortunately Rebecca had someone there who was capable enough to call 911 while she tried to help Max. This seems to be a moot point to me and is sort of off topic for this thread unless you can relate it back to what happened to Rebecca.

Are you saying that someone was so infuriated that she did not call 911 herself that they took it out on Rebecca and that ended in her committing suicide or being murdered?


BBM
The ambulance report states that "NO CPR WAS GIVEN", so what was Rebecca doing?

<modsnip>
 
BBM
The ambulance report states that "NO CPR WAS GIVEN", so what was Rebecca doing?

<modsnip>

It is true that is what is stated in the report......that being said, all medical personnel, Drs. included, make mistakes all the time in their patient documentation. So, without having Matthew Cooley, the EMT who filed the report, sign an affidavit that the report is correct in it's entirety, is is not a fact.
 
It is true that is what is stated in the report......that being said, all medical personnel, Drs. included, make mistakes all the time in their patient documentation. So, without having Matthew Cooley, the EMT who filed the report, sign an affidavit that the report is correct in it's entirety, is is not a fact.

Sorry, but I disagree. The EMT report would be correct, IMO, and therefore, a FACT.
 
Sorry, but I disagree. The EMT report would be correct, IMO, and therefore, a FACT.


Well technically... lay people learn "CPR"

healthcare providers typically learn BLS -basic life support
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/CPRAn...c-Life-Support-BLS_UCM_001281_SubHomePage.jsp

This course is for healthcare professionals who need to know how to perform CPR, as well as other lifesaving skills, in a wide variety of in-hospital and out-of-hospital settings.

EMT's were doing ALS in Max's case. (or pals- pediatric advanced life support)
http://www.laerdal.com/us/nav/194/Advanced-Life-Support

Advanced Life Support is the last step in the Chain of Survival and the beginning of patient recovery.

Perhaps this is where the miscommunicattion lies?
 
It is true that is what is stated in the report......that being said, all medical personnel, Drs. included, make mistakes all the time in their patient documentation. So, without having Matthew Cooley, the EMT who filed the report, sign an affidavit that the report is correct in it's entirety, is is not a fact.

The report itself is considered sworn testimony because it was made by a sworn officer. I don't believe he would make such an incredibly basic "mistake" of that magnitude.

JMO
 
The report itself is considered sworn testimony because it was made by a sworn officer. I don't believe he would make such an incredibly basic "mistake" of that magnitude.

JMO

I stand corrected!!!

http://www.maxshacknai.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/CFD_Report.pdf

NOTED NO CPR WAS PERFORMED BEFORE WE ARRIVED!

here is the forumm discussion...
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8389835#post8389835"]Max Shacknai EMS Report - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
Well technically... lay people learn "CPR"

healthcare providers typically learn BLS -basic life support
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/CPRAn...c-Life-Support-BLS_UCM_001281_SubHomePage.jsp

This course is for healthcare professionals who need to know how to perform CPR, as well as other lifesaving skills, in a wide variety of in-hospital and out-of-hospital settings.

EMT's were doing ALS in Max's case. (or pals- pediatric advanced life support)
http://www.laerdal.com/us/nav/194/Advanced-Life-Support

Advanced Life Support is the last step in the Chain of Survival and the beginning of patient recovery.

Perhaps this is where the miscommunicattion lies?

The exact wording in the EMS Pre Hopsital Care Report is
"Noted no CPR was performed before we arrived."

I take the paramedics at their word-- they would not get this wrong, and I don't think it's a misunderstanding of ACLS vs BLS vs CPR. I think the EMS report is accurate. No CPR was performed that they were aware of (chest compressions, and/ or ventilations.) And I'm sure they asked those present, as well as observing the situation on arrival.

We don't know "why" at this point. Perhaps no one present knew how, or remembered how. Perhaps ventilation could not be established due to positioning or secretions/ obstruction of the airway. Perhaps those present were hysterical and unable to function. We don't know, but I take the paramedics at their word that no CPR was done. I think hysteria/ extreme emotional upset/ shock certainly could be answers as to why there was no CPR. We have a police report that says RZ was crying and kneeling next to Max on their arrival. I don't think that any nefarious implication should be attached to the "no CPR" designation-- plenty of people die in the US because they collapse and no CPR is attempted, for a variety of sociocultural and educational reasons. And yes, Rebecca had "some" health care training-- Rebecca was an outpatient eye tech, who very likely had never done CPR in any kind of arrest situation ever. She worked in an outpatient Lasik clinic, so if they had a lot of cardiac arrests, something was terribly wrong. I consider her level of training the same as any layperson. Same as the minor sister who made the 911 call. Maybe she had never had a CPR class, and at her tender age, I am just proud of her actions in this emergency, and content that she held it together enough to make the 911 call. She deserves no criticism at all for her functioning in this emergency, imo. She was just a young teen.

I think it's important to remember that CPR given does not necessarily equal patient survival in this circumstance. Should CPR have been done if possible, and a trained person physically and emotionally able to give it? Absolutely. Does that mean unquestioningly Max would have survived? Extremely doubtful. The statistics for survival of cardiac arrest secondary to head/ neck/ spinal cord trauma in an out of hospital situation are abysmal, sadly. At best, 1-2.5%, and none were neurologically intact. (Links in the EMS thread to outcome studies.)
 
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