What has ICA told the DT and what do they believe?

[ZsaZsa]

But, he hired Todd Black. :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

Yes, who promptly told the world that Caylee was dead.
I remember him, the PR specialist :crazy:

 

[azwriter]

This may not sound possible, but I don't think she has told them anything. I think instead her defense team has told her what they will present after studying all the evidence the prosecution will bring into the trial.
jmo

 

[kaRN]

Hey guys.

Thanks for all your posts. It is good to get your opinions (which in many cases seem to be based upon your previous fervent research and following of this case, which I don't have only coming on board so recently) on this topic.

I think some of it has merit and I disagree with some of it also. But the thing is it is so difficult to work out because we can't be a fly on the wall in attorney client visits.

For what its worth I don't think JB has gone off ICA. According to Lillian Glass's post (which I take with a pinch of salt) they seem to get on very well. Although it could just be that he likes the female attention of ICA which is a bonus to the fame he thinks he is going to get (that is another matter, the commentators, albeit not the mainstream media, seems to be saying he is out of his depth, incompetent, there is a high likelihood that he will lose the case and be portrayed as a poor attorney so this case doesn't seem like "good publicity").

Aside from that I have vague possibilities in mind of what may have been said by ICA to the DT but nothing that firm.

Also does anyone know where you can get the jail visitation logs btw?

And last of all thanks again for all your comments and input

Here you go http://www.🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬.com/2011/05/jail-visits-soar-for-casey-just-days-prior-to-her-trial/

 

[krisskross]

Yes, who promptly told the world that Caylee was dead.
I remember him, the PR specialist :crazy:

Oh...and he flew the dream team down for a photo shoot. And um ....:waitasec:

 

[allycat1208]

Its hard for me to understand a person who lies with nothing to gain, like Casey did at first. At the beginning of her investigation was the only time she had reasons to lie. It sounds like she started out with harmless lies and then she said that's easy I might as well keep it up. Its funny to me how she lied about easily disprovable things. For instance, the job that she didn't have and the nanny and every person without a phone # that she told the police about. Even after the police investigated Sawgrass and proved to her that no Zenaida Gonzales lives there she continued the same story. She's amazing. And than the Blanchard Park story was just another story to explain the other lies. If she could continue to lie like that to the police, than its no problem to keep it up for the attorneys.

 

[crucibelle]

I think she was flat broke when she hired Baez. Heck, she was trying to borrow money from Kiomarie. I think that would of been her escape money. The well had run dry.

Casey didn't try to borrow money from Kiomarie (if you believe what Kiomarie says, anyhow). Kiomarie said it was someone else that tried to borrow money from her and that she had gotten mixed up.

 

[pip]

Casey didn't try to borrow money from Kiomarie (if you believe what Kiomarie says, anyhow). Kiomarie said it was someone else that tried to borrow money from her and that she had gotten mixed up.

I think it was ICA.. even though she never did actually go and pick it up. It was pretty fishy.

 

[katydid23]

This may not sound possible, but I don't think she has told them anything. I think instead her defense team has told her what they will present after studying all the evidence the prosecution will bring into the trial.
jmo

I don't think she has either, for legal reasons. If she told them she was guilty then they would NOT be able ,legally, to say she was innocent. So they probably would not want her to tell them anything.

 

[okiedokietoo]

I'm guessing that she told them it was a horrible freak neglect related accident and she didn't know what to do. In other words, she didn't tell them the truth either. IMO the Defense knows the truth.

 

[crucibelle]

I think it was ICA.. even though she never did actually go and pick it up. It was pretty fishy.

Could be.. I'm just not sure why Kiomarie would lie about it. She said it was somebody named "Casey Williams" that asked her for the loan. I agree it sounds a bit fishy.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Yeah. I have read it, thanks for that.

I am finding this case more and more depressing I read through it. Obviously the death of a 2 year old girl is not something to celebrate but it just seems such a needless situation (and I am still not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that ICA killed Caylee from a pre-meditated design).

It just seems like there was no need for anyone to be here. Not just because of the death of Caylee but the original family problems, unwanted "denied" pregnancy, stealing from the grandparents (which does no good for ICA regardless of her actual guilt or innocence of any charge in the homicide case), 31 days fiasco, etc.

I just want to see what the defense puts on now to see if it sheds a different light on anything (maybe there will be an "aha" moment).

Are you able to watch any of the hearings online?
I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that Aha moment though- what we have seen of JB so far has been cringeworthy and CM not much better.
I don't think they will transform into articulate advocates with a plausible story to tell, overnight.
Richard Hornsby, an Orlando trial lawyer with a stellar reputation describes JB best when he said "In my personal and professional opinion JB is a moron".
Even he is now calling CM by our favorite nickname, Foghorn Leghorn... ie all bluster, no substance.
You can't make these things up!

 

[LinasK]

LambChop, I think you are right.
Some defense lawyers do not want to know whether their client is guilty or not, and they tell the client that they are only there to ensure that they get a fair trial. Some will not represent anyone unless they believe they are innocent.
I think JB took this case because he recognized the potential for it to bring him a certain amount of fame. It may not have been as high-profile right then, but the case was already pretty well known, at least in FL, by the time he came on board.
I believe that they will try to say that Caylee's death was a horrible accident, that Casey did not intentionally kill her, but something happened and she found her dead. And I am not sure whether they will have to specify exactly what happened, or just make references to a tragic accident. I would think they need to be specific, but I don't know that much about trial law.
We will see. But for all intents and purposes, I believe Casey's defense team believes she is innocent. I could be wrong. Will Casey ever admit what happened? I doubt it.

I personally know some defense lawyers, and they do not ask their clients whether or not they are guilty to avoid this conflict... That being said, I'm fairly confident of some information I received several months ago that OJ's lawyers knew he was Guilty but defended him under "moral cover"...

 

[NSS]

IMO she said lots but told them NOTHING, much the same as her LE interviews.

Baez - You are being charged with killing Caylee.

ICA - Yeah, they said they would pin it on me, they haven't even proven that she's dead. there is more than they know about this kidnapper.

4 months later.

Baez - They found the body.
ICA - Have they/you checked out if Tonys prints were on the car?

Has anyone taken a good look into Jesse? Do you know my dad and brother and possibly others abused me? That ZFG, needs finding,......NO the REAL one, the one with the dog.

OMG you are all so incompetent, I'm gonna be pissed if they manage to pin this on me.

Did you look into my Dads wherabouts? He had access to some duct tape? Hey my Mom destroyed evidence --- why would she do that?

So many suspects, and LE only wants to think it was me.....Sheesh.


***Personal Note. By the time you have attempted to get a straight answer from a sociopath, and spent hours listening to them talk in circles, you will start to doubt your own sanity. You will avoid that self torture if humanly possible. ***

 

[ZsaZsa]

Casey didn't try to borrow money from Kiomarie (if you believe what Kiomarie says, anyhow). Kiomarie said it was someone else that tried to borrow money from her and that she had gotten mixed up.

She did surrender her phone to LE and IIRC I am sure they confirmed it was another phone # from a Casey who was having domestic issues.

 

[LinasK]

I just wonder how long it did take for ica to stop lying to Baez, if she finally did stop?

:hand:I see no reason for Casey to confess the truth to Baez or any other member of the defense team:snooty:...:twocents:

 

[Melanie]

IMO she said lots but told them NOTHING, much the same as her LE interviews.

Baez - You are being charged with killing Caylee.

ICA - Yeah, they said they would pin it on me, they haven't even proven that she's dead. there is more than they know about this kidnapper.

4 months later.

Baez - They found the body.
ICA - Have they/you checked out if Tonys prints were on the car?

Has anyone taken a good look into Jesse? Do you know my dad and brother and possibly others abused me? That ZFG, needs finding,......NO the REAL one, the one with the dog.

OMG you are all so incompetent, I'm gonna be pissed if they manage to pin this on me.

Did you look into my Dads wherabouts? He had access to some duct tape? Hey my Mom destroyed evidence --- why would she do that?

So many suspects, and LE only wants to think it was me.....Sheesh.


***Personal Note. By the time you have attempted to get a straight answer from a sociopath, and spent hours listening to them talk in circles, you will start to doubt your own sanity. You will avoid that self torture if humanly possible. ***

I couldn't have said it any better myself. OMGosh - opening statements are sure to be interesting. Almost as good as a pay per-view!

Mel

 

[NocturnalLady]

Even though the case wasn't so high profile when Baez came on board I think most lawyers, especially if they have been representing people mostly for petty crimes (as I believe Baez had been doing) and if they are ambitious, would jump at the chance to represent someone in a murder case. Even though ostensibly Casey was only charged at first with child endangerment there were enough of the "facts" of the case widely known for it to be obvious that this was going to be at the very least an unusual case if not a murder case. I think Baez jumped at the chance to take on a case that would raise his profile, gain him experience in areas he didn't already have and thus gain him potential future clients. I also think he would rather be known as "the guy who defended that girl in that weird kidnapping case" rather than the "jail house" lawyer that he was previously known as.

Also, I've heard that some defense lawyers actually tell their client that they don't want to hear "what happened" from their client. They don't want to hear anything other than a profession of innocence. If they need to know certain "facts" they want the client to only answer specific questions from them rather than sit down and give a "narrative story". That way the lawyer can defend the client on a point by point basis against whatever individual "facts" are thrown their way by the prosecution rather than being stuck into defending one specific scenario that they were locked into by their client.

So although there were many "facts" of the case widely available from the media, it's possible that Baez and team were not told anything by Casey herself other than that she professes to be innocent and denies the "facts" of the case as stated by the SA. That way Baez is free to somewhat ignore the whole Zanny the Nanny story, ignore whatever lies Casey may have told other people etc. and only has to address the science, the physical evidence and whatever "on the record" statements made by Casey come into the trial. Unfortunately for Baez, Casey is on record with the Zanny story so he will have to confront that to some degree but it is easier for him to wave that away as unimportant if Casey has never told him that story.

I hope I explained my thoughts on this to where they will make sense to anyone else! :waitasec:

 

[Just Jayla]

Sort of adding a question into the thread topic: what did she tell the defense, who was present with the defense team at the time she told them, and did they believe her and act on it?

I am just wondering if any tall, thin investigator types with hard-to-place accents were allegedly on the DT and told anything, and if so, did the tall, thin investigator type with the hard-to-place accent take a stroll down Suburban Drive because he did believe her.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

What has ICA told the DT happened to Caylee and what do the DT believe happened with Caylee.

I am curious about what people think the answer is to this question. Ostensibly, the DT is working for free. Not only that but JB has at least two staff attorneys and other office staff that he his paying out for whilst he is apparently in financial troubles himself. And then, as stated by Richard Hornsby in a recent post it is unclear why he took the case in the first place (at that point the case was not high profile and ICA had no to little money). So it would make sense that they believe she is innocent.

But then again Defense Attorneys usually tell there clients to tell them the truth as I understand it (the ethics rules are slightly more lax as I understand in the US than over here for representing a client who insists on pleading not guilty despite admitting guilt to his lawyer).

Since CMason is alluding to an awful accident...I think she told them Caylee accidently drowned in the pool....but IMHO, the duct tape removes all doubt of an accident...JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[costalpilot]

I think that ICA lied to JB about what actually happened. By stroke of luck, she managed to find an attorney as venal and soulless as she is, which meant they both look at this case as some kind of fun game.

JB knows what she did, so does the entire team. Instead of being somber and giving respect to the life of Caylee, they smile, smirk and play games with the court.

I do believe that ICA has great charm, which has helped her all her life. The DT is only one example of people she has played. Her luck during those 31 days was incredible, who has 2 friends go out of town and loan you their car? The DT is clearly enraptured with her and views her as a poor, helpless girl. I don't know of anyone who could murder their child and still have their DT team adore them, which they clearly do.

I think that is one reason so many people despise the DT, they do know the truth and would not lose one moment of sleep if ICA did not have to pay for her crime in this lifetime.

i agree with this mostly, but I really doubt her well known charm is as alluring to the DT as the publicity. they are in it for themselves. jb sees it as his big time opportunity and cm sees it as his big time swan song.

oh yeah, and they all get to be on TV a lot.

oh yeah, and i also believe jb told the killer not to tell him what happened and that he didnt need to tell her that cause she wasn't going to in the first place.