What is the origin of the planking rumor?

[freespeech]

I have no doubt people have died planking. But in this specific case, how would planking enable his tiny body to fly up over the chandelier? He flew over that balcony. Planking involves lying still.

And again, who was taking his picture? planking is done for the picture to be taken.

I highly doubt that if the older kids had ben there, it would still be a secret. XZ would have told someone and the cops could have easliy confirmed where they were. If Jonah lied about taking them away early that morning, LE would know that already.

LE has not specifically said the older kids were not there to my knowledge. Can you find a definitive statement that was made by a LE?

 

[katydid23]

LE has not specifically said the older kids were not there to my knowledge. Can you find a definitive statement that was made by a LE?

The police report states that it was only RZ and Xz that were present at the time of the accident.

 

[katydid23]

I don't know the answer to that. There's another element to factor in. Maybe someone else will shed light. I just put this up for discussion if anyone's interested in talking about it that's all. Reading the old articles makes me wonder what Bremner has on it or what any of the kids know. I suspect the older kids know something. Planking seems to be popular. I also think the older kids were there that morning but don't have a clue as to whether they saw anything or not.

Also PR keeps hard selling only Rebecca and Xena were there. They are doing that to cover something so that just reinforces to me that the other kids were probably there that morning too.

Why wouldnt Xena tell the cops that if the older kids had been there? Why would she and RZ say it was only them there at the time?

 

[freespeech]

I think the scooter was involved with Max's fall. I think it's possible Max was using the scooter in some kind of posed, balanced position on the newel post, or railing. Whether or not that meets the definition of planking is up for debate.

If Max was holding onto the handlebars and fell outward and head first, the scooter could have become entwined in the chandelier, and with the weight of Max, pulled the hanging chain apart. Particularly if he was balancing on the railing and/ or newel post. There was a "missing link" in the chandelier chain that was photographed on a step, and subsequently lost by the investigators. Dr. Bove was unable to examine it.

There are a number of scooter scenarios and "showing off" (stationary or in motion), or "still" planking tricks that can explain a head first impact that also takes down the chandelier. Consider a "spinning" trick involving the scooter and the newel post, for example. Velocity and momentum are certainly possible there, right?

Dr. Bove, unfortunately, was only paid to run the numbers on the Gomez diagram and Dina's imaginative, but highly unlikely scenario. There are many scenarios that could explain Max's accidental fall.

Added:
Check out the spin move at 33 sec mark.

Razor Scooter tricks - YouTube

At the 0:43-0:44 second mark the kid actually rides a rail for one second, no lie. You must see it to believe it. It almost stopped my heart.

The Razor scooter was not in any way, shape or form appropriate for a six year old. A six year old child could not possible have the coordination and balance to manage that scooter, imo. I also wonder if the scooter handle bars would be to tall for a six y/o.

The Razor scooter was a dangerous toy that should have been put away and only been made available for use with adult supervision. If you ask me that scooter was an accident waiting to happen.

I also think the scooter was involved but I'm trying to fit in how. I wonder why CPD came up with the scenario that Max ran into the dip in the railing and catapulted over. They didn't mention either riding the scooter or planking in their scenario, iIrc.

 

[katydid23]

Anne Bremner stated that the investigator told her Max may have been planking. Rebecca told the investigators that Max had been planking. They probably called her back to ask more questions like if had he done it before. Was he told not to do it? If so then who told him and when? Did the older kids and their friends do it? Did Max ever see them do it? There are dozens of questions that could be asked about this.

The point is the investigators did not get to talk to Rebecca about this because she was murdered, imo, about 39 hours after Max's fall. I would think the family would rather believe and research the possibility of how an accident occurred rather than assuming Max was murdered without any evidence whatsoever.

Imo,that smells fishy because why do they so desperately need and want
everyone to believe that Rebecca harmed Max. Imo, they need everyone to believe that she killed herself. They want that because they don't want people to know she was murdered. I think this is what the PR campaign is about. That is to try and convince everyone that Rebecca killed herself. They know the facts don't add up so they are putting on a show of smoke and mirrors. That is jmo.

BBM

Which is why I believe that the planking story came from Xena. I think she told RZ that Maxie may have been planking, just like she said he was also playing with the scooter and he said 'Ocean' right before passing out.

 

[freespeech]

Why wouldnt Xena tell the cops that if the older kids had been there? Why would she and RZ say it was only them there at the time?

I don't know if she said that. Where did you get your information from? Can you show a link?

 

[freespeech]

The police report states that it was only RZ and Xz that were present at the time of the accident.

Can you tell me where they say that or link it? There were a lot of reports so I don't know which one you are talking about.

 

[freespeech]

I have no doubt people have died planking. But in this specific case, how would planking enable his tiny body to fly up over the chandelier? He flew over that balcony. Planking involves lying still.

And again, who was taking his picture? planking is done for the picture to be taken.

I highly doubt that if the older kids had ben there, it would still be a secret. XZ would have told someone and the cops could have easliy confirmed where they were. If Jonah lied about taking them away early that morning, LE would know that already.

It just occurred to me when you mentioned Max's tiny body that he was way to young to own and operate a Razor scooter. I do agree with K_Z that the scooter had to have been involved some how.

It gives me the shivers to think of a kid that young playing with that scooter upstairs.

 

[freespeech]

BBM

Which is why I believe that the planking story came from Xena. I think she told RZ that Maxie may have been planking, just like she said he was also playing with the scooter and he said 'Ocean' right before passing out.

It's possible that Rebecca's sister or one of older kids told Rebecca that Max was planking. I don't remember that the police report definitively stated whether the older kids or no one else was there or not.

However, iIrc, the report said that Rebecca and her sister were each in different bathrooms and did not witness the fall. I believe the report may have said that Rebecca, not her sister, claimed that Max said Ocean. I could be wrong. Do you have a link to the report you are talking about so that I can read it?

 

[K_Z]

At the 0:43-0:44 second mark the kid actually rides a rail for one second, no lie. You must see it to believe it. It almost stopped my heart.

The Razor scooter was not in any way, shape or form appropriate for a six year old. A six year old child could not possible have the coordination and balance to manage that scooter, imo. I also wonder if the scooter handle bars would be to tall for a six y/o.

The Razor scooter was a dangerous toy that should have been put away and only been made available for use with adult supervision. If you ask me that scooter was an accident waiting to happen.

I also think the scooter was involved but I'm trying to fit in how. I wonder why CPD came up with the scenario that Max ran into the dip in the railing and catapulted over. They didn't mention either riding the scooter or planking in their scenario, iIrc.

While I'm aware that the newel post damage and paint transfer to the scooter can't be dated or timed at this point, I feel strongly the scooter was involved with the fall. The photographs of the paint transfer and damage were fresh damage. Flakes were evident.

I agree with your comments about the scooter being a dangerous "inside" toy. And yet, there is ample evidence that BOTH Dina and Jonah approved of Max's indoor scooter use, and indulged this.

If Jonah is sued by Dina for being "proximate cause" of Max's accidental fall, I feel certain that things will change focus and become a "battle of parenting styles". From Dina's own admissions in interviews, her home, also, was littered with "outside" toys, soccer balls, etc. She approved of, and encouraged very active indoor play, by her own admission-- so active inside play would likely have been "normal" for Max. I have a strong feeling from all I've read that it was very difficult for Max's parents to tell him "no", or limit his desires and play behaviors. And I also feel that evidence demonstrates that permissive parenting leads to accidents and injuries.

Rebecca was in a very bad position if Jonah and Dina were engaged in permissive parenting, and she attempted to place any limits on him. And she was in an even worse situation related to the scooter-- which Max was clearly allowed by them to have inside and upstairs. XZ was quoted as saying Max showed her how he could ride inside and upstairs the day of her arrival.

If Max was allowed to have this outside toy inside and upstairs, and Rebecca was in the bathroom downstairs, well-- how in the world can anyone hold her responsible for an accident that occurs subsequent to a dangerous activity his parents approved of? The scooter wasn't Rebecca's idea. Max didn't sneak it inside. Kids (esp 6 year olds) are unreliable and need limits.

 

[katydid23]

Here is a link to an official document which states exactly who was there at the time of the accident. It is an official autopsy report, which would not be filled with rumor or half-truths.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7114387&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Discuss Max's death here - Thread #1.[/ame]

 

[freespeech]

While I'm aware that the newel post damage and paint transfer to the scooter can't be dated or timed at this point, I feel strongly the scooter was involved with the fall. The photographs of the paint transfer and damage were fresh damage. Flakes were evident.

I agree with your comments about the scooter being a dangerous "inside" toy. And yet, there is ample evidence that BOTH Dina and Jonah approved of Max's indoor scooter use, and indulged this.

If Jonah is sued by Dina for being "proximate cause" of Max's accidental fall, I feel certain that things will change focus and become a "battle of parenting styles". From Dina's own admissions in interviews, her home, also, was littered with "outside" toys, soccer balls, etc. She approved of, and encouraged very active indoor play, by her own admission-- so active inside play would likely have been "normal" for Max. I have a strong feeling from all I've read that it was very difficult for Max's parents to tell him "no", or limit his desires and play behaviors. And I also feel that evidence demonstrates that permissive parenting leads to accidents and injuries.

Rebecca was in a very bad position if Jonah and Dina were engaged in permissive parenting, and she attempted to place any limits on him. And she was in an even worse situation related to the scooter-- which Max was clearly allowed by them to have inside and upstairs. XZ was quoted as saying Max showed her how he could ride inside and upstairs the day of her arrival.

If Max was allowed to have this outside toy inside and upstairs, and Rebecca was in the bathroom downstairs, well-- how in the world can anyone hold her responsible for an accident that occurs subsequent to a dangerous activity his parents approved of? The scooter wasn't Rebecca's idea. Max didn't sneak it inside. Kids (esp 6 year olds) are unreliable and need limits.

I agree and feel sad that a scooter accident which should have been preventable with a little common sense wasn't and this resulted in a tragedy.

Possibly Jonah and Dina felt guilty about the divorce so they indulged Max. Being a parent is difficult because because you are not always liked or appreciated. Kids need you to be tough sometimes and set limits.

They appreciate that later when they are grown with their own kids. Then they develop an appreciation for their parents at that point hopefully. You are probably correct that Rebecca was less popular because she set limits in an environment where few appear to have been encouraged or tolerated.

 

[katydid23]

I don't believe that it was a scooter accident. I do not believe the 6 yr old was trying to ride his scooter on the stairway rails. He was not known to be that big of a dare devil, as far as I know. 6 yr olds are not total idiots. XZ said he rode it on the carpeted hallways, not on the stairway rails.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

The planking rumors began with the rumors that GS and ES were there in the first week of so after Rebecca's suicide. Some posters on Coronado Patch were sleuthing GS and found that she liked photography, so OF COURSE, the next rumor was that she was trying to get Max to plank.

Anne Bremner picked it up and ran with it. I would bet "investigators" never mentioned "planking" to her. JMO

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

You are probably correct that Rebecca was less popular because she set limits in an environment where few appear to have been encouraged or tolerated.

Max having a scooter, something that thousands upon thousands of 6 year old's own, does not translate into "an environment where few limits appear to have been encouraged or tolerated. IMO, that is quite a stretch.

From all accounts, Dina and Jonah were great parents. Max had NEVER had such an accident...until than less then 24 hours after Rebecca's sister arrived. Was she the one that Dina didn't want Max alone with?

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

I don't believe that it was a scooter accident. I do not believe the 6 yr old was trying to ride his scooter on the stairway rails. He was not known to be that big of a dare devil, as far as I know. 6 yr olds are not total idiots. XZ said he rode it on the carpeted hallways, not on the stairway rails.

And she also said he rode it VERY slowly. Those things don't go fast on plush carpeting.

 

[freespeech]

Here is a link to an official document which states exactly who was there at the time of the accident. It is an official autopsy report, which would not be filled with rumor or half-truths.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Discuss Max's death here - Thread #1.

Officer Erhart did not not state that Rebecca and her sister were alone with Max. He simply stated that they were there with him and their locations. There is a reason that he does not state that they were alone with him definitively and it's called CYA. Do you realize a PO can go to prison for falsifying a legal document?

It's apparent if you read between the lines that the way he worded it was to omit others who were possibly there without incriminating himself in the crime of perjury.

It's called creative documentation and unfortunately happens when scared people crumble under the pressure of a corrupt superior. It was a way for him to give in without it seeming like he lied. He just didn't say everything he may have known and I guess he feels he can live with that. After all, her still has a job, no?

So unless he definitively stated there was no one else there then I will not assume it. Though the report may not be filled with lies and half truths it may contain omissions. Unfortunately, that happens.

For example Rebecca's autopsy report never mentioned her parity. That was an omission. According to posters with medical knowledge and familiarity with those types of reports it is unusual to omit a woman's parity. This shows that it happens but not why? Jmoo.

 

[freespeech]

And she also said he rode it VERY slowly. Those things don't go fast on plush carpeting.

Since neither Rebecca or her sister saw the accident they would not know how fast he rode it that day or if he rode it or if he put it on the banister and tried to ride the rail.

No one knows what happened because no one saw it. The CPD, SDSO, DA and a forensic pathologist attended Max's autopsy. None of those agencies or Jonah Shacknai reported that they suspected that Max was a homicide victim. If you have information to the contrary then please post a link. Tia.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Officer Erhart did not not state that Rebecca and her sister were alone with Max. He simply stated that they were there with him and their locations. There is a reason that he does not state that they were alone with him definitively and it's called CYA. Do you realize a PO can go to prison for falsifying a legal document?

It's apparent if you read between the lines that the way he worded it was to omit others who were possibly there without incriminating himself in the crime of perjury.

It's called creative documentation and unfortunately happens when scared people crumble under the pressure of a corrupt superior. It was a way for him to give in without it seeming like he lied. He just didn't say everything he may have known and I guess he feels he can live with that. After all, her still has a job, no?

So unless he definitively stated there was no one else there then I will not assume it. Though the report may not be filled with lies and half truths it may contain omissions. Unfortunately, that happens.

For example Rebecca's autopsy report never mentioned her parity. That was an omission. According to posters with medical knowledge and familiarity with those types of reports it is unusual to omit a woman's parity. This shows that it happens but not why? Jmoo.

Have you ever seen a report that stated "And no one else was there." I certainly haven't. Officer Erhart confirmed who was there. Rudoy has confirmed who was there. The morning of Max's accident - Rebecca, her sister, and Max were there. ONLY them.

IMO, Rebecca's parity was not mentioned out of respect to her family. If indeed her sister was actually her daughter, that was not for LE to reveal. To me, this shows how respectful LE was with both Rebecca and her family.
JMO

 

[freespeech]

Max having a scooter, something that thousands upon thousands of 6 year old's own, does not translate into "an environment where few limits appear to have been encouraged or tolerated. IMO, that is quite a stretch.

From all accounts, Dina and Jonah were great parents. Max had NEVER had such an accident...until than less then 24 hours after Rebecca's sister arrived. Was she the one that Dina didn't want Max alone with?

I believe that another poster linked the Razor scooter warnings and this particular scooter was not recommended for children under 8 y/o. The reason for that was probably because a 6 y/o would not be tall enough or have the strength, coordination and balance to operated such a toy especially around stairs. That should have been an automatic no-no.

The scooter should not have been allowed in the house period and certainly not on the second floor. Sadly, that was a disaster waiting to happen and it did. Parents should heed the warning labels on toys to protect their children from danger. If they do not then they only give in to indulge the child so the child will like them. I think the parent is indulging both the child and themselves in that scenario. Jmoo.