What makes the JBR case fascinating to you?

  • #21
Oh sure, it is LE's job. But if my child was missing I'd have a new "job" too. I'm asking about what the family does NOW. You know there are the families that wait ever so patiently for the police to arrest the criminal and wait for the phone to ring. Then you have the other types of family that investigate on their own accord, and even go so far as to beat the streets themselves, always keep their missing child in the public eye, offer rewards and keep them current, maintain webpages, go on television, and do something constructive to find their child (or other missing children). And even poor families do this for their missing children. Imagine what a family with the Ramsey's type of wealth could do.

Do you mean, if your child was murdered? When a child is missing there is of course the hope and need to find them. Dealing with a child`s murder and death is a bit different I guess- you`d have to deal with the loss first, but of course finding the killer would be important.

I don`t know what the R`s are doing now, or what they should do. The case did get tons of attention and so much has been done, not to say enough. A new team of professionals are looking into the case, with fresh minds I hope.
 
  • #22
Mom raising a doll-like pageant winner and mom writing a vicious ransom note to coverup a brutal murder seem to present a conflicting set of motivational forces.

On the face of it, I suppose they do seem that way. But it helps to remember that both accomplish the same result: they both bring a LOT of attention.

IOW where's the motive for PR to partake in murder, coverup of an accident thats better off portrayed as an accident, or handwriting a note surely to be closely examined by multiple experts?

Notice, my friend. A whole LOT of notice and attention.

It would help RDI alot to at least identify a motive thats plausible.

Well, it seems we have a problem, then. Just what are we talking about here? A motive that's plausible to most people? Or plausible to you?

Adding drama to an explainable accident (head injury only) isn't plausible

He** it isn't.

because it raises a child kidnap-murder conspiracy with special circumstances (sexual assault from that night) that could lead to the death penalty in Colorado.

I would say to that:

Don't forget that PR came from a part of the country that goes very hard on killers and may have feared that even a confession to an accident might lead to dire consequences. How much would you trust the cops? And even then, that makes her more of a victim.

Meanwhile, did you know: "Criminals take advantage of the holiday season to prey on those who are unsuspecting ..."

Not surprising.

HOTYH, can I say something? I'm not looking to start a fight with you. Far from it. On a personal level, I've got nothing against you. And if I respond to something you've said, it's because I figure it was worth responding to. You make good arguments, and as such, I think people have the right to hear good counter-arguments, and I'd like to think that I make some.

IOWs, I always give what you say consideration, even if I don't agree with it. I just wish I could be shown the same consideration. I'm not saying you have to convert like I did (although I hold out hope you might, however futile). I'm just saying: give the devil his due.
 
  • #23
Re motives - I think that, prima facie, the motives of the 20000 parents who feloniously killed their chidren between '74 and '94 (or whatever the years were) would seem less than plausible, too. Happened, though. Look at Diane Downs: murdered one kid and tried to murder another two because she thought that being childless would make her more appealing to a guy... You wouldn't buy that motive in an Agatha Christie novel, never mind true crime. Happened, though...

The motive point is really only useful for discussion purposes, though, or for suggesting a line of investigation. It won't put anyone behind bars...

I'm also not really understanding wherein lies the conflict between raising a pageant winner and killing that pageant winner - you seem to be suggesting that no one ever murdered anyone they loved.

:clap:
 
  • #24
I'm guessing most of us WSers are simple civilians in this matter.

I imagine that's the case.

I'm just curious as to what JBR's immediate family members do to try and find her killer? Are they investigating, surfing the Internet for clues, offering rewards, and trying to seek justice for her in any fashion? Or have they simply moved on?

From what I can gather, you struck it on that last one. Which brings up an interesting question: has John Walsh moved on? Has Erin Runnion moved on? Has Marc Klaas moved on?

It's night and day.
 
  • #25
Something else that I'm curious about, did JB's death change the way people look at pageants?

Before JB's death, I don't think most people knew there WERE such things!

Maybe change the way parents involve their children in pageants?

From what I've seen, it's only gotten worse.
 
  • #26
are you talking about the years following jb`s death? They have offered a reward, had their own investigators, tried to find clues and think who might have done this.

ahem!
 
  • #27
What makes this case interesting to me is how convoluted & irrational the whole thing appears. I do not usually follow these types of cases - I don't even read mystery or thriller books, etc.

I think why it interests me, though, is the same reason why people do love a good mystery/detective novel - having clues & seeing if you can 'crack' the code.

There are people are almost disgusted at the attention Jonbenet gets insisting it's because she's a rich, white, beauty queen - to a point I agree...but, that is NOT what keeps me interested...most other cases, even if the murderer isn't caught, have predictable situations - I can't think of any other case aside from Darlie (I think that's her name) that so unusual. And even the Darlie case pales significantly in comparison to the morass of the Jonbenet case.

I think we'd all like to solve the case to metaphorically lay Jonbenet to rest...have justice & closure....
 
  • #28
In red is the conflicting motive. I never said conflicting motives don't happen, only that they conflict.

Not trying to butt in. Just wanted to say I knew you had it in you.

Besides, RDI usually doesn't even provide a motive for murder. Instead, a theory of how the head blow was accidental followed by the spontaneous, yet self defeating motivation to coverup an otherwise explainable accident to make it look like capital murder.

Prima facie when applied to JBR indicates IDI by SFF, not filicide. Wouldn't it be something that after 12 or more years we find out that prima facie was right all along? That all we had to do was read the note and look at the evidence, and take it all at face value to find the killer?

I'll hold my tongue until addressed.

We got off the prima facie track on purpose 12 years ago, and haven't even looked back. There's never been a whisper of prima facie from ML, JR, ST, FBI, BPD, CASKU, or anyone.:waitasec:

And you gotta wonder why...
 
  • #29
And you gotta wonder why...

You tell me and we'll both know.

Why is it that prima facie got the boot by ML, LS, ST, FBI, CASKU, and the media?

Another way to put this: Why was JBR NOT killed by a group of individuals representing a small foreign faction who respected JR's business but not the country that it serves?

If prima facie would've predominated, clearly that would drop the case squarely in the lap of the FBI and not BPD.
 
  • #30
You tell me and we'll both know.

If I thought it would do any good...

Why is it that prima facie got the boot by ML, LS, ST, FBI, CASKU, and the media?

Another way to put this: Why was JBR NOT killed by a group of individuals representing a small foreign faction who respected JR's business but not the country that it serves?

Before I answer that, I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.

If prima facie would've predominated, clearly that would drop the case squarely in the lap of the FBI and not BPD.

Indeed. One can't help but wonder if the case would have been better served by doing exactly that.
 
  • #31
You know it's funny, but I've been reading a lot of Star Wars EU, especially,

Legacy of the Force. I'm not sure how our resident sith lord knows of imperial knights or the youzhon vong, the Darth Krayths' rule of the one.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Star-Wars-Legacy-Vol/dp/1593077165/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1248839779&sr=8-20"]Amazon.com: Broken (Star Wars: Legacy, Vol. 1) (v. 1) (9781593077167): John Ostrander, Jan Duursema: Books[/ame]

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Shards-Star-Wars-Legacy-Vol/dp/159307879X/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b"]Amazon.com: Shards (Star Wars: Legacy, Vol. 2) (9781593078799): John Ostrander, Jan Duursema, Colin Wilson, Travel Foreman: Books[/ame]

and I felt a great disturbance of the force. It told me there is another sith lord.

i'm a true crime buff and i read of jb as unsolved but the touch dna is in the news and arrive here and irealize this place is a cesspool of dark side energy.

I realize through a convergence of the force that has led to me, the chosen one has fallen to the dark side, and I must redeem him and save him from the dark side.
 
  • #32
You know it's funny, but I've been reading a lot of Star Wars EU, especially,

Legacy of the Force. I'm not sure how our resident sith lord knows of imperial knights or the youzhon vong, the Darth Krayths' rule of the one.

Amazon.com: Broken (Star Wars: Legacy, Vol. 1) (v. 1) (9781593077167): John Ostrander, Jan Duursema: Books

Amazon.com: Shards (Star Wars: Legacy, Vol. 2) (9781593078799): John Ostrander, Jan Duursema, Colin Wilson, Travel Foreman: Books

and I felt a great disturbance of the force. It told me there is another sith lord.

This may not be the place for this. Join me over in the "Jury Room" later?

i'm a true crime buff and i read of jb as unsolved but the touch dna is in the news and arrive here and i realize this place is a cesspool of dark side energy.

It allows me to draw strength.

I realize through a convergence of the force that has led to me, the chosen one has fallen to the dark side, and I must redeem him and save him from the dark side.

Your quest is hopeless. Surely you must know I can never be turned from the dark side.
 
  • #33
Voynich,IMO,someday you will come to understand that the Ramsey's ARE the dark side!! actually I think I should capitalize that and say Dark Side.
 
  • #34
Before I answer that, I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.

Were you really going to explain to everyone why the collective reasoning of both RDI and IDI has forsaken a prima facie investigation? Beats the sh#% outta me!
 
  • #35
Were you really going to explain to everyone why the collective reasoning of both RDI and IDI has forsaken a prima facie investigation? Beats the sh#% outta me!


Well, in not calling Lockheed's excellent security service, calling the police when ordered not to and inviting round the friends, JR started off the whole pattern of not treating it as prima facie acceptance of the RN would demand.

The biggie, though, would be that JBR wasn't kidnapped. She was murdered in her own home by someone with an astonishing degree of comfort in that home. That suggests some intimacy with the Ramseys. An investigation going in outward circles from the family would presumably uncover them whether you took the RN at face value or not.

Investigators, though, get instincts about staged scenes - the robbery gone wrong springs to mind. I'm just reading about a woman who murdered her husband with some more-or-less untraceable anaesthetic, placed his body so it looked like he had been masturbating while reading Playboy, then set fire to the room with a lit cigar so it would look like he'd had an accident while in the realms of ecstasy. Police accepting this at face value would have absurd. Just as it would have been in the Ramsey case.
 
  • #36
Well, in not calling Lockheed's excellent security service, calling the police when ordered not to and inviting round the friends, JR started off the whole pattern of not treating it as prima facie acceptance of the RN would demand.

The biggie, though, would be that JBR wasn't kidnapped. She was murdered in her own home by someone with an astonishing degree of comfort in that home. That suggests some intimacy with the Ramseys. An investigation going in outward circles from the family would presumably uncover them whether you took the RN at face value or not.

Investigators, though, get instincts about staged scenes - the robbery gone wrong springs to mind. I'm just reading about a woman who murdered her husband with some more-or-less untraceable anaesthetic, placed his body so it looked like he had been masturbating while reading Playboy, then set fire to the room with a lit cigar so it would look like he'd had an accident while in the realms of ecstasy. Police accepting this at face value would have absurd. Just as it would have been in the Ramsey case.


:clap:
 
  • #37
Voynich,IMO,someday you will come to understand that the Ramsey's ARE the dark side!! actually I think I should capitalize that and say Dark Side.

"DARK-SIDED! They are all DARK-SIDED--gargoyles and slykicks [ed: psychics]"

Courtesy of Wife Swap :crazy:
 
  • #38
Were you really going to explain to everyone why the collective reasoning of both RDI and IDI has forsaken a prima facie investigation? Beats the sh#% outta me!

Easy, killer.

As you said, RDI and the vast majority of IDI don't think the SFF idea has a leg to stand on.

For my part, I should think that 9/11 would have shown how foreign terrorists operate.
 
  • #39
Easy, killer.

As you said, RDI and the vast majority of IDI don't think the SFF idea has a leg to stand on.

For my part, I should think that 9/11 would have shown how foreign terrorists operate.


As if somebody else has a better leg??

Interesting though that prima facie investigation represents the most common road travelled in any investigation, and yet we haven't even started down that road. In fact we've gone so far down another more remote road that its now probably too far to go back, IMO.
 
  • #40
HOTYH, how do you think the SFF* picked the Ramsey family?

*SFF evokes Swine Flu Factsheets just now...
 

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
92
Guests online
3,577
Total visitors
3,669

Forum statistics

Threads
632,660
Messages
18,629,826
Members
243,237
Latest member
talu
Back
Top