What Narrative Did The Ramseys Have In Mind Initially?

[madeleine]

to me all this "the doors were locked" is just another JR argument pointing to "nothing was out of the ordinary,we had a normal evening,we had/have no clue...",just distancing themselves

their first attempt was to blame it on a FOREIGN faction,some strangers...the intruder (friendly or not) was later invented (after sitting down with lawyers trying to make sense of the mess that was created by a creepy staging)

yep,that morning and everything they said is important cause it happened BEFORE they got their stories straight....

 

[madeleine]

when the RN was written they probably had in mind to get rid of the body IMO>>>blame the foreign faction,the strangers who had a grudge against JR

something made them change plans but JR isn't stupid,when he "found" her body he obviously realized how it looks and that the SFF theory doesn't sound real/believable anymore and that's when he probably wanted to save the situation (he claimed that it was probably an inside job)

 

[JoanRanger]

Nom de Plume said,

I agree that the 911 call was made earlier than JR wanted. I don't really believe that PR was a "co-conspiritor" but I do believe she knew JB was dead when she made the call. I think her reason for making the call when she did was so that JB would be found in the house, and JR would be caught.

In my view, it's obvious that Patsy was solely responsible for the ransom note. It's her "voice," her word choices, her style, her syntax. It's even her identical layout in terms of word spacing, paragraph indentations, and centered salutation. It's far wordier than anything that JR would ever have dictated. I think he was smart enough to have known to keep anything like that as simple as possible. Patsy wrote that note, and she wrote it on her own.

And I just can't imagine Patsy being willing to engage in such a coverup for John's sake...and then remain with him for the rest of her life, if John had been the prime mover behind JB's murder. Their "togetherness," their clear loyalty to each other from start to finish, even their body language in all their interviews, indicates a unity of purpose that just doesn't fit a more innocent spouse covering the tracks of a more guilty spouse. It especially doesn't fit what is known of Patsy's personality. She was not some mousy and retiring little woman under John's thumb. She was the social mover and shaker in that family. By all accounts, John was a quiet and fairly private person. Patsy was responsible for deciding what they did and where they went. Why would that relational dynamic suddenly change, particularly since losing JB was obviously tragic for Patsy? It is highly unimaginable to me that John committed the crimes of molestation and murder and then somehow coerced Patsy to help him cover things up...and then somehow maintain her very passionate loyalty for years until her own death.

If the Ramseys were involved in the staging of JB's death - and I'm one who believes they were - they had to have done it for the sake of someone who meant just as much to them both as JB did. Nothing else explains their ongoing unity afterward. If John had been the one to harm JB, Patsy strikes me as someone who would have developed a passionate hatred for him. She might have covered up for him in the heat of the moment, out of a concern for the family's image and what people would think. But she would have cracked quickly under the pressure of her grief and become his worst enemy. There's NO WAY she would have stayed married to him and been his champion for the rest of her days.

In fact, the theory that PR covered up for JR is more ridiculous to me than the intruder theory. And that's saying something.

 

[Nom de plume]

Nom de Plume said,



In my view, it's obvious that Patsy was solely responsible for the ransom note. It's her "voice," her word choices, her style, her syntax. It's even her identical layout in terms of word spacing, paragraph indentations, and centered salutation. It's far wordier than anything that JR would ever have dictated. I think he was smart enough to have known to keep anything like that as simple as possible. Patsy wrote that note, and she wrote it on her own.

And I just can't imagine Patsy being willing to engage in such a coverup for John's sake...and then remain with him for the rest of her life, if John had been the prime mover behind JB's murder. Their "togetherness," their clear loyalty to each other from start to finish, even their body language in all their interviews, indicates a unity of purpose that just doesn't fit a more innocent spouse covering the tracks of a more guilty spouse. It especially doesn't fit what is known of Patsy's personality. She was not some mousy and retiring little woman under John's thumb. She was the social mover and shaker in that family. By all accounts, John was a quiet and fairly private person. Patsy was responsible for deciding what they did and where they went. Why would that relational dynamic suddenly change, particularly since losing JB was obviously tragic for Patsy? It is highly unimaginable to me that John committed the crimes of molestation and murder and then somehow coerced Patsy to help him cover things up...and then somehow maintain her very passionate loyalty for years until her own death.

If the Ramseys were involved in the staging of JB's death - and I'm one who believes they were - they had to have done it for the sake of someone who meant just as much to them both as JB did. Nothing else explains their ongoing unity afterward. If John had been the one to harm JB, Patsy strikes me as someone who would have developed a passionate hatred for him. She might have covered up for him in the heat of the moment, out of a concern for the family's image and what people would think. But she would have cracked quickly under the pressure of her grief and become his worst enemy. There's NO WAY she would have stayed married to him and been his champion for the rest of her days.

In fact, the theory that PR covered up for JR is more ridiculous to me than the intruder theory. And that's saying something.

I can understand why you feel that way, and I respect your opinion, but I totally disagree. I used to think the same thing, but the more I learned, the more my theory changed. IMO, the BDI theory is ridiculous. No way was he strong enough to do that kind of damage to her skull. He didn't cause any major damage when he hit her in the face with the golf club did he?

First of all PR was a very shallow woman. Money and social standing seemed to mean more to her than anything else. Outward appearances were everything to her. I think she kept quiet about JR because by turning him in she might have implicated herself. I do believe she had prior knowledge of the abuse, and by more than just JR. If that's the case, she would have every reason to stay silent. She still had BR to think about. I'm sure she didn't want him, or herself, to end up like JB did. Even if JR did go to prison, she or BR could still have met the same fate. I think JR, the abuse, and his connections go much deeper than most realize, and Patsy would have known that.

Patsy might have been the social director, but JR was the man of that house. He was the one that insisted, over PR's objections, that they go to MI that Christmas. He might have been quiet in outward appearance, but we can't forget that LPH, IIRC, said he had a violent temper.

Yes, Patsy probably did write the note. It does scream Patsy all over it. BUT....it's possible that someone purposely made it look like she wrote it. Not as likely, but possible.

Personally, I never thought their body language after the murder showed unity. Yes, they sat close to each other, but there was a strained vibe between them. It looked very contived to me. I don't think there was a bit of loyalty to each other. I believe it was CYA for each of them, all the way, and the only way they could CYA was to "stick together".

 

[questfortrue]

Allow this to wash over you: Your daughter has been kidnapped/killed. The most horrific event which can ever happen to a parent, has just happened in your world. Yet, and it was noted by others at the original scene, the parents ignore one another, even are just described as “cold” to one another.

Course, noone knows exactly what their reaction would be in such a scenario. However, wouldn’t most people make an attempt to comfort the other spouse, even if a recent spat or marital issues had caused some estrangement. This cold scenario between JR and PR is much bigger. It is as though one of them blames the other, and the one blamed is not about to accept any responsibility for it and has erected an impenetrable shield.

It seems the loss of JB takes a back seat to the scurry for protection of their family. If my instinct of blame is correct the question is: Would blame between the two be the result of BDI? (Talking about the scene the morning of the 26th.) BDI does not seem to me to be the 1st choice unless one imagines PR faulting JR for being an absentee Dad. or for not correcting the son from playing doctor with his sister. If BDI wouldn’t they still comfort one another?

For the reasons Nom lists, and this noted estrangement, BDI is still a bit of a stretch for me. The scene sure resonates as a CYA situation. And DeeDee’s comment of throw it all out there and see what sticks is additional evidence of CYA. Moo.

 

[Nom de plume]

Allow this to wash over you: Your daughter has been kidnapped/killed. The most horrific event which can ever happen to a parent, has just happened in your world. Yet, and it was noted by others at the original scene, the parents ignore one another, even are just described as “cold” to one another.

Course, noone knows exactly what their reaction would be in such a scenario. However, wouldn’t most people make an attempt to comfort the other spouse, even if a recent spat or marital issues had caused some estrangement. This cold scenario between JR and PR is much bigger. It is as though one of them blames the other, and the one blamed is not about to accept any responsibility for it and has erected an impenetrable shield.

It seems the loss of JB takes a back seat to the scurry for protection of their family. If my instinct of blame is correct the question is: Would blame between the two be the result of BDI? (Talking about the scene the morning of the 26th.) BDI does not seem to me to be the 1st choice unless one imagines PR faulting JR for being an absentee Dad. or for not correcting the son from playing doctor with his sister. If BDI wouldn’t they still comfort one another?

For the reasons Nom lists, and this noted estrangement, BDI is still a bit of a stretch for me. The scene sure resonates as a CYA situation. And DeeDee’s comment of throw it all out there and see what sticks is additional evidence of CYA. Moo.

ITA! Also, IMO getting BR out of the house is another CYA move for two reasons. 1. If he's not there it's far less likely that he will be questioned and possibly open his mouth about what he might have seen or heard the night before. JR would have wanted to have time to talk to him and explain why it was so important that he not say anything. I doubt he took time to have that conversation before PR made the 911 call. And 2. JR knew that he was going to have to "find" JB at some point and BR was already having problems. Seeing his dead sister would not have helped that situation.

You are so right about the distance between them that morning. Even divorced people with hard feelings comfort each other in times of great sadness and sorrow. Maybe not all, but a good many do. Patsy pretty much stayed put where she was. JR was the one all over the place, everywhere except where PR was. He was distancing himself from her. JR was too busy worrying about how to explain JB being dead in the house, with a ridiculous ransom note left, to care about PR. He was probably also furious with her for botching his plan with the early 911 call too. Even if, as you say, PR blamed JR for BDI, that would not have been her first reaction IMO. That blame would have come later, in the anger phase of the grieving process, after the initial shock and horror had subsided some. :moo:

 

[Darlene733510]

They sure seemed in a hurry to get Burke out of the house. He surely knew what was going on. If he was guilty of hurting JB, then the parents covered it up. What I always thought was that when they went and woke him up, and he came downstairs, he did not question why all the people were there, and why the cops were there. The other thing is that PR and JR diid not ask him if he knew why his sister was not in her bed? They both knew why, and I find myself thinking that big brother knew it too.

 

[deca]

They sure seemed in a hurry to get Burke out of the house. He surely knew what was going on. If he was guilty of hurting JB, then the parents covered it up. What I always thought was that when they went and woke him up, and he came downstairs, he did not question why all the people were there, and why the cops were there. The other thing is that PR and JR diid not ask him if he knew why his sister was not in her bed? They both knew why, and I find myself thinking that big brother knew it too.

Agree. If your daughter was missing you would question their siblings for any shred of anything that might help...even if you wanted to protect them from the horrific reality of a kidnapping.

 

[ozazure]

It certainly is confusing what narrative they had, the ransom note doesn't match the murdered child in the basement, nor does calling it an inside job when the note points to a foreign faction.

I don't think we can tell for sure what the grand plan was at any point. I think it reveals the common thread of all lying, that it is difficult to maintain a cohesive story, that elements of truth are used, and that everything is said to persuade.

John may not have been trying to support his plan when he confirmed the doors were locked. He may have been seeking to persuade that they were conscientious parents, that he is as confounded by the lack of a break in as them (forced teaming), or that he is so innocent he can offer somewhat incriminating evidence up.

 

[Chrishope]

This might be a little OT but it backs up the theory that the original plan was to dump her body elsewhere. Why hide her in the WC if they intended for her to be found in the house? Why not leave her in plain site?

Exactly. Either a kidnapping is staged, in which case the body is gone, or a sex murder is staged, in which case there is no need to hide the body in the WC. The body wasn't being hidden from the police (it's a forgone conclusion that it will be found once the police are called - shouldn't have taken 7 hours though) it was being hidden so it could be dumped later.

I agree that the 911 call was made earlier than JR wanted. I don't really believe that PR was a "co-conspiritor" but I do believe she knew JB was dead when she made the call. I think her reason for making the call when she did was so that JB would be found in the house, and JR would be caught.

Possible. But at that point why not just tell police JR killed JBR?

To elaborate on that...I think PR was molested by DR when she was young. I think she knew JR (and possibly others as well) was/were molesting JB, but due to her upbringing (NP's comment "Just a little molested") felt it was somewhat normal. She probably didn't feel like it was bad enough to leave him, or report him. (After all, she was molested and she turned out ok didn't she?) Plus that would mean giving up her lifestyle if JR wasn't bringing home the big bucks anymore.

Possible, but just no real evidence. I don't know if PR was molested or not. I don't think she was shallow enough to overlook the murder of her daughter just to maintain a lifestyle.

I believe that PR could overlook JB being molested, but murdered was another story. I can't decide about who wrote the RN. I could see her finding out JB is dead, and JR telling her to write a ransom note. There were an awful lot of things pointing to JR in that note, like she was trying to tell LE just where to look. I have a harder time seeing JR writing such a ridiculous ransom novel. He seems like the type to have made it short and to the point, but he might have intentionally tried to make it look like PR wrote it.

I can't see PR writing the ransom note under those conditions unless she feared JR would kill her. Even if that's how it happened, why not tell police what happened once they arrived? She's safe enough with the police in her house.

Another reason I think PR knew what happened was that they were so distant with each other that day. She was mortified that JR had killed JB, and he was furious that she called 911 before he could get her out of the house. Add to that the fact that she was so heavily sedated. Was it really because she was hysterical? Or was it to keep her so out of it that she wouldn't talk about what she knew, and if she did it wouldn't be credible?

Probably both. She likely was hysterical - with good reason- and sedating her meant she couldn't talk, or if she did it wouldn't make sense.

Her peaking at LE indicates to me that she knew what was going on. Pretty odd as well that she was sitting in the sun room directly over JB's body in the WC. It's like she was trying to be as close to her as she could.

Well, maybe. But her knowing what went on doesn't really fit well over all. We may be reading too much into the peaking. I don't really see the sun room as being "close", it's a separate floor. She had to sit somewhere.

 

[wengr]

Imo the simple fact that the staging is so odd and difficult to read that we really don't have much agreement on what the narrative and plan was after 16 years of analyzing it tells me something. It tells me that this was not the plan of two people. I believe this was the plan of one person - desperate, rushed, very tired, and unsure if her husband would agree to assist or not.

Whether she was trying to protect her remaining child or herself is the question that remains for me.

 

[douce40]

JR may have initially thought he would be able to get rid of the body somehow after the police were called. He thought to use Patsy and friends as distractions and JR would sneak out and dump the body at a more reasonable time of day. His actions that day did seem to come across as distant and peculiar to Arndt. He may have miscalculated the ease of ridding the body. He may have even thought about moving it at various times that morning but didn't have the nerve. He knew the gig was up when Arndt asked for a house search with more people than just him. So he quickly ran down and retrieved the body before anyone else thinking it would make him look less guilty. Arndt says she saw the guilt in his eyes. Not that Arndt is a mind-reader, but she was a trained police officer so she has more cred. than a layman.

I don't think it was planned out to steer police in anyone's direction that morning. His instincts were to seem cordial and come across as a good parent. He said the doors were all locked probably thinking his main goal was a positive police perception of him. What a nice gentleman, no way he could of done it. Priority was dumping the body and not let the police do a complete search of the house. The body might have been moved from a more difficult place to find, to the wine cellar at a point when JR was gonna chance a disposal. He did go missing for a period of time.

Why didn't he dump the body that night? Makes me wonder if Patsy was innocent and JR acted alone. He might not have wanted to chance Patsy waking and not finding JonBenet and JR at home. He would have been screwed!

If Patsy did know, they might have not wanted to chance being seen in the car at a rather inexplicable time. So they chanced a removal while Patsy would be the focus of attention the next morning.

A murderer would definitely not want the body to be found in his house.

 

[madeleine]

There are 3 types of people on this planet...1.those who make things happen,2.those who watch things happen and 3.those who wonder wth did just happen...

IMO (re this murder/staging,everything about it) JR is the nr 1 and PR was nr.2 or even nr.3

 

[DeeDee249]

JR may have initially thought he would be able to get rid of the body somehow after the police were called. He thought to use Patsy and friends as distractions and JR would sneak out and dump the body at a more reasonable time of day. His actions that day did seem to come across as distant and peculiar to Arndt. He may have miscalculated the ease of ridding the body. He may have even thought about moving it at various times that morning but didn't have the nerve. He knew the gig was up when Arndt asked for a house search with more people than just him. So he quickly ran down and retrieved the body before anyone else thinking it would make him look less guilty. Arndt says she saw the guilt in his eyes. Not that Arndt is a mind-reader, but she was a trained police officer so she has more cred. than a layman.

I don't think it was planned out to steer police in anyone's direction that morning. His instincts were to seem cordial and come across as a good parent. He said the doors were all locked probably thinking his main goal was a positive police perception of him. What a nice gentleman, no way he could of done it. Priority was dumping the body and not let the police do a complete search of the house. The body might have been moved from a more difficult place to find, to the wine cellar at a point when JR was gonna chance a disposal. He did go missing for a period of time.

Why didn't he dump the body that night? Makes me wonder if Patsy was innocent and JR acted alone. He might not have wanted to chance Patsy waking and not finding JonBenet and JR at home. He would have been screwed!

If Patsy did know, they might have not wanted to chance being seen in the car at a rather inexplicable time. So they chanced a removal while Patsy would be the focus of attention the next morning.

A murderer would definitely not want the body to be found in his house.

He may not have originally planned to have the body found in the house. I think the original plan was to hide her in a room that not many people knew existed- the wine cellar- then, AFTER police left, they could call police and tell them she had been "returned" DEAD- just as the RN said she would be if they called police. Their plan was thwarted when police didn't leave. When JR realized they were not going to be left alone, and that they would be forced to leave the house themselves, he had to "find" her himself. I do not believe they would ever have dumped her body outside not would they have left her to rot in the basement to be found by cadaver dogs.

 

[UKGuy]

He may not have originally planned to have the body found in the house. I think the original plan was to hide her in a room that not many people knew existed- the wine cellar- then, AFTER police left, they could call police and tell them she had been "returned" DEAD- just as the RN said she would be if they called police. Their plan was thwarted when police didn't leave. When JR realized they were not going to be left alone, and that they would be forced to leave the house themselves, he had to "find" her himself. I do not believe they would ever have dumped her body outside not would they have left her to rot in the basement to be found by cadaver dogs.

DeeDee249,
Why did JR not just leave the house and allow BPD to discover JonBenet. The R's can still claim ignorance.

If the R's were willing to fly off into the sunset without JonBenet, then I reckon they would be willing to dump her outdoors, and if the R's plan was to wait until the police left, then dumping JonBenet away from the house would almost certainly make any case against the R's much weaker.


.

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee249,
Why did JR not just leave the house and allow BPD to discover JonBenet. The R's can still claim ignorance.

If the R's were willing to fly off into the sunset without JonBenet, then I reckon they would be willing to dump her outdoors, and if the R's plan was to wait until the police left, then dumping JonBenet away from the house would almost certainly make any case against the R's much weaker.


.

Guess we just have to disagree on this one. I will never believe they would have left her to be found by cadaver dogs. At the time JR was heard planning his "getaway-fake business trip" JB had already been found, so she would be taken to the morgue at that point. Not the same as them leaving the house with her still hidden in the wine cellar.
I don't think they planned to dump her outdoors at all after the police left. I think they planned to say she had been returned to them- dead. I think they would have tried to say she was left on the porch, etc or even possibly that the "kidnappers" called to say she was in the wine cellar. Believable? Probably not, but I don't think they really cared at that point. No more believable then believing that a RN in the mother's handwriting and a "missing" child found dead by her father in her own home was really kidnapped.

 

[midwest mama]

Guess we just have to disagree on this one. I will never believe they would have left her to be found by cadaver dogs. At the time JR was heard planning his "getaway-fake business trip" JB had already been found, so she would be taken to the morgue at that point. Not the same as them leaving the house with her still hidden in the wine cellar.
I don't think they planned to dump her outdoors at all after the police left. I think they planned to say she had been returned to them- dead. I think they would have tried to say she was left on the porch, etc or even possibly that the "kidnappers" called to say she was in the wine cellar. Believable? Probably not, but I don't think they really cared at that point. No more believable then believing that a RN in the mother's handwriting and a "missing" child found dead by her father in her own home was really kidnapped.

The RN was corrected from a "delivery" to a "pick-up". From this shouldn't we assume that the intent was to show that JB's body had made it out of the house, and was coming back again - as long as the ransom demand was satisfied? Of course, we know she'd come back dead, since the police were called. But somehow John would have to get out of the house to deliver the ransom money, which was to be exhausting, after he rested. If the 911 call was deliberate to provide a reason for JB to be gotten back dead, then the R's also knew they would be under surveillance from that time forward.

Here's the glitch: Since the ransom call did not come on the 26th, that moved the incoming call to the 27th - which would also be in keeping with John having time to "be rested" before having to make the delivery. Police still around - perhaps Patsy sent out of the house along with kids arriving from Minneapolis. If RN was bogus, and no real kidnappers, who was going to call JR on the 27th to set the wheels in motion to deliver the ransom? The phones were trapped and tapped. Could Patsy have made the incoming ransom call from a cell phone and not been caught? Or was there another accomplice off somewhere to make the call so JR could leave to deliver the ransom money, thereby getting a call from the kidnappers that JB was stashed in the WC after all? There was supposed to be a pick-up, not a drop off of her dead body, and if they couldn't have gotten her out of the house because of police surveillance for that pick-up, a call that she was stashed was their only option.

If they planned on waiting until the 27th for that to happen, then they didn't realize there would be smell to deal with, and JR must have panicked when he went down to the basement during his "missing time", checked on JB and discovered she was smelling. No wonder he was so nervous. What a relief when Arndt gave him the option of "finding" her.

It would all be much more easily explained if we went with the thought that the RN was meant to scare Patsy to death from calling the police. That would give JR the space and time to take care of everything, since it would be easy to send off Patsy and Burke, then circumvent the older kids' flight and get them sequestered with Patsy. Then he could get called "early" (after it had gotten dark on the 26th) since he could have made arrangements for the money early that day. Of course, he would tell Westmoreland why he needed his Visa line opened up, swearing him to secrecy - which would give the "kidnappers" a reason to kill JB. JB's body would go along with the trip to "deliver" the ransom money (which would never really get delivered), being disposed of along the way. And at the right time, JR would call with the devastating news that he delivered the money, was instructed by the kidnappers (or found a note at the money drop site) as to where to pick up JB, and now the police could be called to pick her up, but they would, instead, find her dead - maybe even with a new note that said, "We warned you not to talk to anyone."

 

[douce40]

Based on the length of the Ransom note and all the non-sense in it, the writer wanted the focus to be on the note and not on the house. If it was the regular 10-15 word ransom note, there would be less importance on the note which may encourage the police to do a more thorough house search looking for clues. "The doors were all locked", ""I broke the window", "I carried and tucked JB in", this all seems to be an attempt to steer all the focus on the Ransom note and not a house search. The note, combined with the slew of friends being called over was most likely intended to distract police.

There are 3 types of people on this planet...1.those who make things happen,2.those who watch things happen and 3.those who wonder wth did just happen...

IMO (re this murder/staging,everything about it) JR is the nr 1 and PR was nr.2 or even nr.3

A #1 would have wanted to dump the body (hands on). A #2 would have probably hidden the body and have a wait and see attitude. A #3 would have done as little as possible.
JR is definitely a #1 and Patsy seems to be somewhere in between #1 and #2.
The interviews I've seen with JR and PR often consist of JR speaking over people and speaking for Patsy. Patsy was a #2 around JR but often seemed at times to be a #1. Patsy was no shrinking violet. She was often planning parties, heavily involved in her children's lives, etc. She didn't seem passive at all.

Guess we just have to disagree on this one. I will never believe they would have left her to be found by cadaver dogs. At the time JR was heard planning his "getaway-fake business trip" JB had already been found, so she would be taken to the morgue at that point. Not the same as them leaving the house with her still hidden in the wine cellar.
I don't think they planned to dump her outdoors at all after the police left. I think they planned to say she had been returned to them- dead. I think they would have tried to say she was left on the porch, etc or even possibly that the "kidnappers" called to say she was in the wine cellar. Believable? Probably not, but I don't think they really cared at that point. No more believable then believing that a RN in the mother's handwriting and a "missing" child found dead by her father in her own home was really kidnapped.

If he did a good job of ridding the body, the body may not have been found for a long time, if ever. This would have distanced him and his family from much suspicion. Finding the body of a murdered 6 year old in her own home is an obvious red flag no matter what the excuse/circumstances are. The chronic vaginal abuse was another very good reason to have the body found after a certain period of time. If they found the body later on with chronic vaginal abuse, kidnappers would most likely have been blamed. So if they were going to do the stall tactic to make the excuse for the vaginal abuse, they wouldn't want the body to stink the basement up. Disposing of JB's body, as horrible as that sounds, buys them time and creates distance.

 

[douce40]

The RN was corrected from a "delivery" to a "pick-up". From this shouldn't we assume that the intent was to show that JB's body had made it out of the house, and was coming back again - as long as the ransom demand was satisfied? Of course, we know she'd come back dead, since the police were called. But somehow John would have to get out of the house to deliver the ransom money, which was to be exhausting, after he rested. If the 911 call was deliberate to provide a reason for JB to be gotten back dead, then the R's also knew they would be under surveillance from that time forward.

Here's the glitch: Since the ransom call did not come on the 26th, that moved the incoming call to the 27th - which would also be in keeping with John having time to "be rested" before having to make the delivery. Police still around - perhaps Patsy sent out of the house along with kids arriving from Minneapolis. If RN was bogus, and no real kidnappers, who was going to call JR on the 27th to set the wheels in motion to deliver the ransom? The phones were trapped and tapped. Could Patsy have made the incoming ransom call from a cell phone and not been caught? Or was there another accomplice off somewhere to make the call so JR could leave to deliver the ransom money, thereby getting a call from the kidnappers that JB was stashed in the WC after all? There was supposed to be a pick-up, not a drop off of her dead body, and if they couldn't have gotten her out of the house because of police surveillance for that pick-up, a call that she was stashed was their only option.

If they planned on waiting until the 27th for that to happen, then they didn't realize there would be smell to deal with, and JR must have panicked when he went down to the basement during his "missing time", checked on JB and discovered she was smelling. No wonder he was so nervous. What a relief when Arndt gave him the option of "finding" her.

It would all be much more easily explained if we went with the thought that the RN was meant to scare Patsy to death from calling the police. That would give JR the space and time to take care of everything, since it would be easy to send off Patsy and Burke, then circumvent the older kids' flight and get them sequestered with Patsy. Then he could get called "early" (after it had gotten dark on the 26th) since he could have made arrangements for the money early that day. Of course, he would tell Westmoreland why he needed his Visa line opened up, swearing him to secrecy - which would give the "kidnappers" a reason to kill JB. JB's body would go along with the trip to "deliver" the ransom money (which would never really get delivered), being disposed of along the way. And at the right time, JR would call with the devastating news that he delivered the money, was instructed by the kidnappers (or found a note at the money drop site) as to where to pick up JB, and now the police could be called to pick her up, but they would, instead, find her dead - maybe even with a new note that said, "We warned you not to talk to anyone."

Not sure you've nailed his plan exactly but it reasonably explains the quirky ransom note. JR getting rid off the body had to be a priority and he overestimated his ability to do this. He might have thought he could slip out under the guise of important business or something less complicated than needing a phone call from kidnappers. After he failed in ridding the body, his desire to create distance between his family and the police was the new lifelong agenda.

 

[Chrishope]

Once the police were called, the body was going to be found. That's a given and even a narcissist would have had to realize it.

In fact, the K9 unit was on standby. Why the K9 unit wasn't called I can't say, but had it been called the body would have been found within minutes of the dogs arriving on scene.

As it was, it took 7 hours for the body to be "found" but even so, it was inevitable that it would be found. If the officers on scene shortly before 6 am had opened that door..... If FW had a flashlight......

So, there is no way that there was a plan to do anything with the body after the police arrived. At that point there is no question the body is going to the morgue. So any plan to ditch the body had to involve ditching it before the police were called. Which, imo, means not calling them at 5:52am on the 26th. No question in my mind PR was not a co-conspirator.

The "ransom call" could not have been made after calling the police. Too risky. Phones could be tapped and JR could be under surveillance.

It would all be much more easily explained if we went with the thought that the RN was meant to scare Patsy to death from calling the police. That would give JR the space and time to take care of everything, since it would be easy to send off Patsy and Burke, then circumvent the older kids' flight and get them sequestered with Patsy. Then he could get called "early" (after it had gotten dark on the 26th) since he could have made arrangements for the money early that day. Of course, he would tell Westmoreland why he needed his Visa line opened up, swearing him to secrecy - which would give the "kidnappers" a reason to kill JB. JB's body would go along with the trip to "deliver" the ransom money (which would never really get delivered), being disposed of along the way. And at the right time, JR would call with the devastating news that he delivered the money, was instructed by the kidnappers (or found a note at the money drop site) as to where to pick up JB, and now the police could be called to pick her up, but they would, instead, find her dead - maybe even with a new note that said, "We warned you not to talk to anyone."

It had to be something along these lines.