What Shirt Was JB Wearing When She Was Killed?

[DeeDee249]

I though that Steve Thomas (who has seen the photos from the White's and KNOWS what she wore) has said that she wore the white star shirt. He didn't mention that she wore the red turtleneck under it, though I suppose that does explain some things. It explains why the red turtleneck was wet and balled up on the sink. (blood stains from whatever oozed from her nose and mouth? Remember PR's comment when looking at the sheets/bedding and curtain by JBR's bed- she said "I don't see any blood, do you?" ) NO ONE had mentioned blood to her at all. The head bash was not visible until the autopsy. There was nothing on the body at all that suggested blood. The mucus on her cheek did not look bloody, and the coroner alone would have seen blood in her vagina and in the mucus in her ears/nose/mouth at that point. Her comment says to me that there WAS blood that night- vaginal bleeding (wiped away) and blood that may certainly oozed from her mouth, nose and ears after such a shattering head blow. There was blood- that only the Rs saw that night. PR's comment also tells me that this bleeding did NOT occur in JBR's bedroom. And she was in her bedroom when she made that comment. "look- no blood here, right?" It was also an unusual thing for her to say because blood in the bedroom of a murdered child would not be an indication for or against an intruder. It would only be an indication that whatever happened occurred in the bedroom, at least in part.

The red shirt under the white shirt, paired with the black velvet pants, also seems to fit with the black/white/red hair tie that was found in her hair. PR was assuredly into having her daughter's hair accessories match her outfit.

 

[2goldfish]

<snip>PR's comment also tells me that this bleeding did NOT occur in JBR's bedroom. And she was in her bedroom when she made that comment. "look- no blood here, right?" It was also an unusual thing for her to say because blood in the bedroom of a murdered child would not be an indication for or against an intruder. It would only be an indication that whatever happened occurred in the bedroom, at least in part.

The red shirt under the white shirt, paired with the black velvet pants, also seems to fit with the black/white/red hair tie that was found in her hair. PR was assuredly into having her daughter's hair accessories match her outfit.

1. I agree that was indicative of PR seeing blood, and also that there was no blood in the bedroom...

2. You know, the red turtleneck under the white shirt *does* make the most sense as far as I can see, only one thing that bothers me....the red would have showed right through the white - being rather prissy myself *snort* I would not wear red under white nor dress my children in red under white...

3. 100% agree the hair ties would have matched outfit -red, black, or white. not blue.

 

[JMO8778]

..maybe the red shirt under the white one was Patsy's way of compromising w JB...Patsy thinking that maybe she'd take the white one off later,then they'll match.
There's also a reason why the party photos have not been released,and I think it has more to do w just JB's hairstyle likely being different,perhaps it's b/c of the shirt.if so,then the R's sure had a lot of nerve to lie in their book;basically it says they knew full well they got away with it,and that those pics won't ever be released.

 

[DeeDee249]

1. I agree that was indicative of PR seeing blood, and also that there was no blood in the bedroom...

2. You know, the red turtleneck under the white shirt *does* make the most sense as far as I can see, only one thing that bothers me....the red would have showed right through the white - being rather prissy myself *snort* I would not wear red under white nor dress my children in red under white...

3. 100% agree the hair ties would have matched outfit -red, black, or white. not blue.

The red/white/black hair tie was wrapped OVER a blue one. There was a blue one at the topknot ponytail and also on the ponytail at the base of her neck, so both ponytails had blue hair ties. The top ponytail also had the red/white/black hair tie.
I had a little girl with very long, straight hair. There are certain kinds of hair ties that hold hair better, and also certain kinds that are decorative and don't necessarily hold the hair well. I am one RDI who thinks much has been made of the two ponytails, and I don't think they were staging. I think the blue elastic hair tie was put on to hold the ponytail securely, and the red/white/black one was put on over it because it matched the outfit. The bottom ponytail wasn't made until they came home and she was readied for bed.
Here's why- when my daughter was little I often put her hair in a braid or loose ponytail at the nape of her neck for bed. PR has admitted she often did this. That accounts for the ponytail at the nape of her beck. My daughter often wore the sides of her hair pulled up into a topknot with the rest hanging down long. It is a style that I have seen on JBR, and she wore her hair like that at the family Christmas party Dec. 23. If JBR had been my daughter and wore her hair like that to the White's, when we arrived home I'd have kept the top ponytail in place, especially if it was late and she was sleepy. But I'd still have pulled the long hanging hair into another ponytail at the nape of her neck. I never left her hair long and loose for sleeping. If you can picture what I am saying I did with my own daughter's hair, it looked exactly like the hairstyle found on JBR when she died.
So I guess what I am saying is that I think those two ponytails were not a mystery at all, nor were they staging. They were simply the way she often fixed her hair to put JBR to bed. IMHO. There was a lot of staging involved, but that doesn't mean that every single thing was staged. There was NO reason for an intruder, kidnapper, pedophile, etc. to restyle her hair. The garrote would have worked either way, and as the gold chain was tangled up in the garrote, there seemed to be no need to keep her neck free and bare.
As there was no visible head wound, the hairstyle was not done to hide that, nor would it have served to hold her skull together, as I have seen suggested. It wouldn't have worked anyway. Her skull was cracked halfway around, but it didn't separate into two pieces. It would have stayed together. As we know, coroner Mayer himself was surprised to find the skull fracture, and he undid her hairstyle to reflect the scalp, so if those 2 ponytails had been holding her skull together or if her skull bones were somehow movable, he'd have noticed it before he removed her scalp.

As far as the red shirt showing under the white one- the white Gap shirt was really more of a sweatshirt-type. It was a heavier, opaque fabric, and I don't think the red shirt would have shown through.

 

[JMO8778]

thanks Deedee...from the drawing of how she was found,I thought perhaps it had a lower neck,and maybe the top of a turtleneck would have shown if it were underneath the white one.

 

[DeeDee249]

The drawing is not to be taken literally. There are several discrepancies. She is shown face up, and her face was turned to the right side, for one. Also, her arms are shown straight up over her head. I know there are descriptions of her arms being "over her head with no support" (via Arndt) but if you look at the actual crime scene photo , there is one of her lying on the rug (you can see the R living room rug under her), the coroner's right-angle metal ruler laying on top of her, and you can see that her arms are BENT at almost right angles iN FRONT of her, rather like a boxer's pose. You can see only one arm in the photo because it's cropped. Her hand is already paper-bagged.

Here: http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetfaceathouse.jpg

 

[JMO8778]

thx,I see what you mean.I had thought they were more over her head,from her shirt possibly being changed.

 

[Funny Face]

I must admit, I scrolled through this thread paying attention to the first and last few pages.

I've never seen this theory so I'll just throw it out. It's just a thought not a hard held belief. What if JB was not wearing any shirt when she received her (I my mind) her fatal head wound? The redressing???? the paintbrush handle garrotte (SP?) cords etc.were all staging.

Wha ja tink?

 

[JMO8778]

Dr Spitz says she was manually strangled by her shirt collar first..it's in Thomas's book...if not her shirt collar,then it must have been some type of fabric,the scarf question has come up occasionally,I think there's a thread on it somewhere here.
Dr Spitz must have come to that conclusion somehow,the marks on her neck not being congruent with the garrote injuries were probably it,although there may be more evidence we're not seeing,such as what did her shirt collar look like,was it stretched or twisted out of shape? Either the white one or the red one was,IMO,if it was a shirt she was strangled with.

 

[Funny Face]

Thanx JMO, just one more reason to re read those old books this winter. I must be suffering from half himerers!

 

[JMO8778]

LOL.I have no memory ever since I turned 40.and most of my books are in storage,so I'm lucky to remember what I do.

 

[DeeDee249]

I must admit, I scrolled through this thread paying attention to the first and last few pages.

I've never seen this theory so I'll just throw it out. It's just a thought not a hard held belief. What if JB was not wearing any shirt when she received her (I my mind) her fatal head wound? The redressing???? the paintbrush handle garrotte (SP?) cords etc.were all staging.

Wha ja tink?

It's possible. After all, if she was redressed in clean panties and her longjohns, it is entirely possible that her shirt had been put on after her death (or after she was unconscious). This is especially possible if she was wearing the red shirt when the incident occurred and it was removed because it was stained or had some other link to the crime. Then she was redressed in the white shirt she wore to the party. I am one who does not think she wore the red shirt to the party that day but I do think it possible that she was dressed in the red shirt for bed. (with the longjohns)

 

[Anniegirl]

After reading the red shirt was balled up , wet, in sink-- Im thinking she was killed in that shirt--maybe had the white one over it, taken off in bathroom, perhaps before Patsy became enraged and threw her against tub,creating severe skull fracture.JMO

 

[JMO8778]

Patsy cried in one of her interviews when shown a pic of the red shirt.she tried to make out like it was over a crown,but IMO,that was just a bluff.and instead of pressing her on it,they let her take a break. :/ with no mention of when she returned,either.

 

[Ames]

This sounds reasonable but I have problems with JonBenet being asleep when they arrived at the house. I think, as Burke first said, she was awake when they got home. You have to take the evidence of the pineapple into account in the big picture. In my world, she was awake, snacked on pineapple then got ready for bed, wearing the red turtleneck in advance for the next morning trip. And then your version comes into play, JonBenet wet the bed, a tired frazzled Patsy reacted to the bedwetting and things went on as you cited it. JMO

I agree with you, since I made that post several months ago, I have changed my mind. I believe that she was AWAKE when the Rams arrived home from the party, just as Burke orginally said, before changing his story for some reason (his parents persistance, perhaps?) I totally agree with your WHOLE scenario.

 

[Ames]

The red/white/black hair tie was wrapped OVER a blue one. There was a blue one at the topknot ponytail and also on the ponytail at the base of her neck, so both ponytails had blue hair ties. The top ponytail also had the red/white/black hair tie.
I had a little girl with very long, straight hair. There are certain kinds of hair ties that hold hair better, and also certain kinds that are decorative and don't necessarily hold the hair well. I am one RDI who thinks much has been made of the two ponytails, and I don't think they were staging. I think the blue elastic hair tie was put on to hold the ponytail securely, and the red/white/black one was put on over it because it matched the outfit. The bottom ponytail wasn't made until they came home and she was readied for bed.
Here's why- when my daughter was little I often put her hair in a braid or loose ponytail at the nape of her neck for bed. PR has admitted she often did this. That accounts for the ponytail at the nape of her beck. My daughter often wore the sides of her hair pulled up into a topknot with the rest hanging down long. It is a style that I have seen on JBR, and she wore her hair like that at the family Christmas party Dec. 23. If JBR had been my daughter and wore her hair like that to the White's, when we arrived home I'd have kept the top ponytail in place, especially if it was late and she was sleepy. But I'd still have pulled the long hanging hair into another ponytail at the nape of her neck. I never left her hair long and loose for sleeping. If you can picture what I am saying I did with my own daughter's hair, it looked exactly like the hairstyle found on JBR when she died.
So I guess what I am saying is that I think those two ponytails were not a mystery at all, nor were they staging. They were simply the way she often fixed her hair to put JBR to bed. IMHO. There was a lot of staging involved, but that doesn't mean that every single thing was staged. There was NO reason for an intruder, kidnapper, pedophile, etc. to restyle her hair. The garrote would have worked either way, and as the gold chain was tangled up in the garrote, there seemed to be no need to keep her neck free and bare.
As there was no visible head wound, the hairstyle was not done to hide that, nor would it have served to hold her skull together, as I have seen suggested. It wouldn't have worked anyway. Her skull was cracked halfway around, but it didn't separate into two pieces. It would have stayed together. As we know, coroner Mayer himself was surprised to find the skull fracture, and he undid her hairstyle to reflect the scalp, so if those 2 ponytails had been holding her skull together or if her skull bones were somehow movable, he'd have noticed it before he removed her scalp.

As far as the red shirt showing under the white one- the white Gap shirt was really more of a sweatshirt-type. It was a heavier, opaque fabric, and I don't think the red shirt would have shown through.

Exactly! Just another reason that makes me know that she was AWAKE when she arrived home. If she was asleep, I don't think that Patsy would have bothered with pulling her hair back at the nape of the neck, and risk waking her up. Since I first started this thread, way back when....I believe that it is possible that when JB arrived at home AWAKE, it was then that she could have been placed in the red turtleneck, and of course it was then that her hair was pulled back at the nape of the neck. It is still a possibility, of course, that she wore the red turtleneck under her white Gap shirt though. (As I have stated before, when we lived in Montana, just like Colorado...Dec. is pretty doggone cold. I would always put a turtleneck under my daughter's shirts. Sometimes the turtleneck collar would show, but at least she stayed warm). So I am not ruling out the possiblity that she wore it under the Gap shirt to the Whites. And when they arrived home, Patsy removed the Gap Shirt, and left on the red turtleneck...and then pulled her hair back. I have no doubt that she went to bed wearing that red turtleneck...as Patsy orginally stated. I also have no doubt that she wet the bed that night, and the turtleneck got soaked, and that is why it was balled up on the bathroom counter.

 

[Ames]

Patsy cried in one of her interviews when shown a pic of the red shirt.she tried to make out like it was over a crown,but IMO,that was just a bluff.and instead of pressing her on it,they let her take a break. :/ with no mention of when she returned,either.

That really ticked me off. She turned on those fake tears and said.."OH GOD! A crown..." What is so darn ironic, is that she had been shown OTHER pictures of OTHER crowns and trophies and she didn't break down when she looked at THOSE. That is what makes me believe that it was the red turtleneck that made her "cry". I personally do not believe that she was actually crying, rather it was a stall tactic. And it worked!!! After her "crying spell" and the break they gave her...you are correct..they never brought up the red turtleneck again. They simply moved on to another picture...after the break.

 

[Nehemiah]

The red/white/black hair tie was wrapped OVER a blue one.

PR has admitted she often did this.

Can you please source these two statements?

Thank you.

 

[DeeDee249]

Can you please source these two statements?

Thank you.

The autopsy report. Meyer describes them on page 4. Last paragraph. It is the 'cloth hair tie which is listed in the evidence taken from the body as being black/red/white. http://www.acandyrose.com/12271996jonbenet04.gif

PR's statement was in one of her many pages of depos. I don't save every one. If I come across it I'll post the link. She was being questioned about the odd hairstyle, and being shown photos of the White's. Of course, we've never seen those photos.

 

[Ames]

The autopsy report. Meyer describes them on page 4. Last paragraph. It is the 'cloth hair tie which is listed in the evidence taken from the body as being black/red/white. http://www.acandyrose.com/12271996jonbenet04.gif

PR's statement was in one of her many pages of depos. I don't save every one. If I come across it I'll post the link. She was being questioned about the odd hairstyle, and being shown photos of the White's. Of course, we've never seen those photos.

If I am not mistaken, it was from her 98 interview.