What will Cindy's Role be in Upcoming Events?

[logicalgirl]

While I realize most future behavior is predicated by past behavior - what we are doing here is speculating on CA's future behavior will be during ICA's trial.

Since we are primarily relying on our own interpretation of events in past speculation regarding CA's behavior - I like to think - are we right?

I'm just not positive some of the major conclusions here are accurate, and why not have a "reset," "resort", "rethink" and post a different thought or two?:waitasec:

It gives the thread a change up rather than more of the same old same old floating down the stream if you all take time to disagree with me, no?:great:

This trial will really really give us the opportunity to see the major players in "real time" for more than a couple of days. I think we are in for some big "change ups" in some major players and I can't wait to watch - as bad as that sounds when I know we are talking about the murder of a beautiful 2.5 year old child. :banghead:

 

[tsitra01]

But if she were really tampering with evidence, she never would have picked up KC from Tony's? She calls the police on her that night and does not change until July 17th or so when reality hits her and she realizes that she may very well lose KC also. It is too much. Also, she knows she did not take care of Caylee the way she should have. Just mo.

Solace, It seems to me she knew something bad took place. I call her washing anything including Caylee's doll that Caylee obviously did not have with her and spraying the trunk of a car that she claimed smelled like a dead body was tampering with evidence. Of cours she picked up ICA at Tonys.......she was desperate to find where Caylee was. Even though she may have felt something terrible happened to her. I didn't hear that she demanded to know where Caylee was when she entered Tony's place. U

 

[tsitra01]

I noticed when CA was on the stand a few weeks ago that while JB was questioning her, her thumbs were going a mile a minute. Round, and round, and round. CA also was grabbing her dress and crushing it in her hand while answering questions from JB. However, talking to LDB her hands were pretty still, normal. jmo

LC, I did notice the thumb rolling. She was really going to town. I didnt take further notice after that. Do you feel she was more relaxed when being questioned by LDB?

 

[logicalgirl]

But if she were really tampering with evidence, she never would have picked up KC from Tony's? She calls the police on her that night and does not change until July 17th or so when reality hits her and she realizes that she may very well lose KC also. It is too much. Also, she knows she did not take care of Caylee the way she should have. Just mo.

IMO - OR The reality that hit her was that the LE and "everyone out there" believed Caylee was dead AND that ICA had killed her. CA's mind refused to let her believe either or both.

It took her months to accept that Caylee is dead, and she still cannot "speak it". I'm not positive she has accepted ICA is the killer - and I'm waiting to see the meltdown during the trial when and if she does.

Contrary to popular belief I know and I may very well be proven wrong - but that's an easy thing for me to admit - when I am.

 

[LambChop]

LC, I did notice the thumb rolling. She was really going to town. I didnt take further notice after that. Do you feel she was more relaxed when being questioned by LDB?

I think the thumb rolling shows she was anxious about what he was asking and wanting to give JB the answer he wanted. With LDB I think she just answered without much thought about it. CA does like to paint a wide landscape with her descriptions, starting at "Fore score and 20 years ago." She just needs to answer the question without the background noise. jmo

 

[Solace]

IMO - OR The reality that hit her was that the LE and "everyone out there" believed Caylee was dead AND that ICA had killed her. CA's mind refused to let her believe either or both.

It took her months to accept that Caylee is dead, and she still cannot "speak it". I'm not positive she has accepted ICA is the killer - and I'm waiting to see the meltdown during the trial when and if she does.

Contrary to popular belief I know and I may very well be proven wrong - but that's an easy thing for me to admit - when I am.

Right, but one other thing Shirley, her mother, says Cindy can't admit that KC is responsible because then she has to admit that Caylee is dead. I think it is more she can't admit that she did not take care of her and should have gotten custody.

The trial is going to be a meltdown on many levels.

Wait till they put that picture of the rug up - If that doesn't make them cry AFTER the prosecution HAS MADE them fall in love with CAYLEE of course.....Nothing will!

 

[logicalgirl]

Right, but one other thing Shirley, her mother, says Cindy can't admit that KC is responsible because then she has to admit that Caylee is dead. I think it is more she can't admit that she did not take care of her and should have gotten custody.

The trial is going to be a meltdown on many levels.

Wait till they put that picture of the rug up - If that doesn't make them cry AFTER the prosecution HAS MADE them fall in love with CAYLEE of course.....Nothing will!

I have no doubt CA feels tremendous guilt and even if she had been able to get custody, who's to say ICA may not have done much the same thing if as posters generally believe - Caylee was killed to punish CA because she loved Caylee more than ICA, during a visitation?

Who among us in the midst of a tragic event and for a long time afterwards does not wish we had done something different or something more - so the tragedy never happened?

 

[Tulessa]

I have no doubt CA feels tremendous guilt and even if she had been able to get custody, who's to say ICA may not have done much the same thing if as posters generally believe - Caylee was killed to punish CA because she loved Caylee more than ICA, during a visitation?

Who among us in the midst of a tragic event and for a long time afterwards does not wish we had done something different or something more - so the tragedy never happened?

LG that is so well said. My brother called me the week before he was murdered , and asked if he could move in with me. I told him absolutely, but I hoped that he and Lisa could work it out, because I loved her to death. The DAY that he was murdered, he called me to tell me that he & his wife had worked it out. I Thank God that my family are as close as they are. If I had told him no? I couldn't live with myself today.

 

[logicalgirl]

LG that is so well said. My brother called me the week before he was murdered , and asked if he could move in with me. I told him absolutely, but I hoped that he and Lisa could work it out, because I loved her to death. The DAY that he was murdered, he called me to tell me that he & his wife had worked it out. I Thank God that my family are as close as they are. If I had told him no? I couldn't live with myself today.

Yes, Tulessa - I do understand - it actually hurt my heart to type that line because of phone calls not made in time - putting off a visit one more day - thank god you know you did not say no - you have enough pain to bear as it is. :blowkiss:

 

[Solace]

I have no doubt CA feels tremendous guilt and even if she had been able to get custody, who's to say ICA may not have done much the same thing if as posters generally believe - Caylee was killed to punish CA because she loved Caylee more than ICA, during a visitation?

Who among us in the midst of a tragic event and for a long time afterwards does not wish we had done something different or something more - so the tragedy never happened?

Interesting that you say that Logical (last paragraph) because Cindy was asked by the FBI if KC feels remorse and Cindy said "no she doesn't because she doesn't feel she did anything wrong".

 

[MissJames]

Should a, could a, I would a - does not equate two grinding months of testimony evidence in a courtroom with a blow up pictures of Caylee to look at day after day.

CA has far more information about ICA than we know of and who is to say bells won't be going off and dots will not be connected.

Despite all the posts we have saying CA should have known when she first smelled the trunk or made the third 911 call - what mother's first thought is - my child is a killer?

Nobody will ever convince me that would be my first thought if (god forbid) ICA were my daughter. Yes, I agree CA's behavior and actions since that moment have been inexcusable - but I have great difficulty imagining her sitting through two months with LDB and JA hammering at ICA every day to believe CA will emerge from a verdict with her current beliefs intact.

Sorry - I went sideways O/T - I think CA will play a very small role in the trial - that is all HHJP will allow.

What do you think CA's current beliefs are?
I think what she SAYS and what she BELIEVES are two different things. That's why I find her despicable.
Do you think she actually BELIEVES caylee is alive or that there IS a Nanny? That may be why we feel differently about CA

 

[logicalgirl]

What do you think CA's current beliefs are?
I think what she SAYS and what she BELIEVES are two different things. That's why I find her despicable.
Do you think she actually BELIEVES caylee is alive or that there IS a Nanny? That may be why we feel differently about CA

Miss James, IMO she knows Caylee is dead, but the finality of her saying it out loud is still difficult for her. And as Solace and I have both said - she connects the two things - Caylee dead and ICA guilty. So if she says outloud Caylee is (definitely) dead - the result is ICA is guilty also.

We all feel CA "should" have checked to see there was a Nanny, but I think with all of CA's rushing around trying to keep everything together while George was losing money online, and ICA was stealing CA's money, and CA was working full time, as long as Caylee looked fine, she just didn't get around to it. I'm sure as soon as she made those first couple of phone calls - it hit her there was no Nanny. Then her first reaction was to find out if this was slang for one of ICA's friends or what the he$$ was going on(in CA's mind) To us it was obvious from the first there was no nanny - but CA was in the middle of a double horror.

I also believe it is a very thin veneer between CA consciously knowing ICA is guilty, and I believe her heart has known for about a year or so. She just does not want it to be true which is why we see all that ghastly facial protesting on the details in court. But she does know. All IMO.

 

[MissJames]

While I realize most future behavior is predicated by past behavior - what we are doing here is speculating on CA's future behavior will be during ICA's trial.

Since we are primarily relying on our own interpretation of events in past speculation regarding CA's behavior - I like to think - are we right?

I'm just not positive some of the major conclusions here are accurate, and why not have a "reset," "resort", "rethink" and post a different thought or two?:waitasec:

It gives the thread a change up rather than more of the same old same old floating down the stream if you all take time to disagree with me, no?:great:

This trial will really really give us the opportunity to see the major players in "real time" for more than a couple of days. I think we are in for some big "change ups" in some major players and I can't wait to watch - as bad as that sounds when I know we are talking about the murder of a beautiful 2.5 year old child. :banghead:

Preface to say ,you know I love your posts and our conversations ,even if we don't completely agree,right? I find this quite interesting .

A lot can happen to change the direction CA is currently taking.
JB can insinuate or claim things about Cindy and tick her off enough to change course.
When she sees the States case laid out neatly and her prior statements are shown to impeach her,she may be so worn down she admits the truth.
She may have a visitation from an angel ,who will convince her to do the right thing ( I have great belief in God's messengers ,with and without the wings )

If I have doubts it's because Cindy has been faced such hideous ,damning evidence and yet, seems even more entrenched in saving ICA,even to the detriment of others.

 

[LambChop]

Yes, CA knows the truth and we know that every time she makes an excuse for KC because if KC were innocent CA would not need to make excuses. jmo

 

[logicalgirl]

Preface to say ,you know I love your posts and our conversations ,even if we don't completely agree,right? I find this quite interesting .

A lot can happen to change the direction CA is currently taking.
JB can insinuate or claim things about Cindy and tick her off enough to change course.
When she sees the States case laid out neatly and her prior statements are shown to impeach her,she may be so worn down she admits the truth.
She may have a visitation from an angel ,who will convince her to do the right thing ( I have great belief in God's messengers ,with and without the wings )

If I have doubts it's because Cindy has been faced such hideous ,damning evidence and yet, seems even more entrenched in saving ICA,even to the detriment of others.

Thank you MissJames and love your thoughtful responses to my ongoing questioning. I'm not 100% percent positive in my statements - I am saying to myself - what if CA isn't as evil as we see her as being?

I try to imagine this happened to me - and question if I would have been suspicious as we say Cindy should have been, or thinking as clear headed as we've said she should have been. The sheer shock of having Caylee gone, then to believe she is kidnapped, then to hear she is probably dead, then to hear my own troubled daughter is probably the killer would have sent me into such a terrible morass of a tailspin I don't know what I would have done. Would I have acted like CA? Probably not but this didn't happen to me.

And you are right, so much can happen in the next three months - will we see JB turn on CA after he has used her all this time? She has been very valuable to him and he's worked hard to keep her where she is. My bet is yes - and how will CA react to that? I suspect very badly indeed. The evidence will pound and pound into CA, in a far different way than it is now, and yes, the State will lay out their evidence and experts will confirm it. I certainly hope CA has her angel led epiphany because to me she is the pivotal person at trial. JB knows ICA is guilty, ICA knows she is guilty, George knows, and the State knows. Can CA really refuse to believe the truth she knows is in her heart, as she looks at a picture of her beloved grand daughter day after day in court for two months?

I guess I'll have to wait and see.

 

[sharpar]

There is a long list of parents who refuse to believe their child is cold blooded murderer
The Petersens and the Einwhistles come to mind immediately but am sure there is a long list of them.

 

[HopeForUs]

As a family member of a murdered loved one who btw, a cousin got in a relationship with the accused, and had a baby by him! Hard to believe I know, but true. Anyway, the other side of the family changed up on us completely during investigation & trial, complete with denial and betrayal. My DSIL was a 17 year old child, and he was a jealous bf who shot her during a breakup, but bc he had gotten the cousin pregnant during bail time, they stuck to him and her like glue, and threw us and my DSIL away. My DH was devastated, as was the rest of our side of the family. He ended up getting 3 yrs bc of an incompetant DA (involuntary manslaughter, or a slap on the wrist,whichever u prefer) and they are not together anymore. The child that was born is a totally innocent bystander, and I will not allow myself or my family to mistreat her, even though we don't communicate w/them often.
My point is this: they were always shady people, who I never trusted. Sometimes we have to trust ourselves to say no, they're not gonna do the right thing this time, last time, or ever! And that's what I think CA's gonna prove to be, an enabler family member, who raised trash, and to keep from looking like a failure, will keep up the facade. Too Bad For Caylee, I wish it was different for her, all the way around. These DAs want justice for her, as do we, and with God's Help I'm sure they'll make it happen. Sorry for the rant, feeling a little fed up with this family, and my DH's as well. JMO

 

[MissJames]

Miss James, IMO she knows Caylee is dead, but the finality of her saying it out loud is still difficult for her. And as Solace and I have both said - she connects the two things - Caylee dead and ICA guilty. So if she says outloud Caylee is (definitely) dead - the result is ICA is guilty also.

We all feel CA "should" have checked to see there was a Nanny, but I think with all of CA's rushing around trying to keep everything together while George was losing money online, and ICA was stealing CA's money, and CA was working full time, as long as Caylee looked fine, she just didn't get around to it. I'm sure as soon as she made those first couple of phone calls - it hit her there was no Nanny. Then her first reaction was to find out if this was slang for one of ICA's friends or what the he$$ was going on(in CA's mind) To us it was obvious from the first there was no nanny - but CA was in the middle of a double horror.

I also believe it is a very thin veneer between CA consciously knowing ICA is guilty, and I believe her heart has known for about a year or so. She just does not want it to be true which is why we see all that ghastly facial protesting on the details in court. But she does know. All IMO.

JMO, but I think ICA was leaving Caylee with CA and GA,much more than Cindy is now admitting. I think the Nanny was rare because ICA became an "event planner" requiring a lot of night and weekend work

The nanny's role has been expanded in Cindy's interviews and depos ,since she realized saving ICA was dependent on there being a nanny. Remember,at one time she told LE she thought the nanny might be ICA's word for anyone (AMY,Christine,etc)who was babysitting Caylee at the time.

I also believe Cindy only partially bought ICA's explainations from June 16th to July 15th. She knew Casey liked to party and she must have suspected there was no job.George certainly did.
She wanted reassurance by speaking with Caylee,but that wasn't happening. She wrote the "My Caylee is missing" on Myspace. That was not a grandmother who thought her grandaughter was being well cared for by a nanny or by a good mother. She was worried.

You are right in a prior post,I have regrets ,lots of them. My 15 year old committed suicide . I spent the first few hours with family discussing why it must have been an accident.He probably thought he's be found in time or that he would be able to put his foot on the stairs and save himself. Actually he COULD have put a foot back and released the belt around his neck.He also left a note.
Once we realized that, we had to admit....yeah,he did mean to die.The guilt,the what ifs,If onlys ,why,why God,why? The stigma,the speculation that some thought was okay to ask......the assumptions people make,it's horrible. I make it a point of telling people we lost him to suicide because there IS such a stigma,but we have nothing to hide or be ashamed of.

I could have placed the blame squarely at other peoples feet and made them feel responsible. He was a teenager who faced racists at his private school and a new girlfriend who hung up on him that day. His computer and video games were left on .Maybe I could sue for brain damage or blame the cookie company who made the tin of cookies he ate that morning. I made a conscious decision not to put that guilt on anyone.I did not even question anyone,for fear they would think we blamed them,and that was HARD because we STILL have questions,6 yrs later.

I have never believed Cindy thinks Caylee is alive. She knows ,on every level possible that Caylee died. She would be looking for her,screaming every day from the rooftops,that she's alive and someone has her. She would not be able to go on cruises or eat or sit still if she believed Caylee was still out there with God knows what being done to her. :banghead:
JMO

 

[HopeForUs]

I am so sorry MissJames, and I truly admire your courage. I agree with every word you said, as our family also has unanswered questions, and maybe one day we'll all get the answers we need. My DH still can't speak of his little sister, even though it's been 22 yrs. She was his dear one, and I loved her much too. She was 8 when we started dating, and we became very close.
I know CA's hurting, but I agree with you, if she didn't believe Caylee was gone, she's still be looking for her. She wouldnt be able to function! I can't even think of my DSIL w/out crying, and I know what it's like to live w/family who doesn't really like to talk abt it, when it seems to help me. So, life carries on, and we do the best we can, but that hurt never really goes away. You will be in my prayers.

 

[logicalgirl]

JMO, but I think ICA was leaving Caylee with CA and GA,much more than Cindy is now admitting. I think the Nanny was rare because ICA became an "event planner" requiring a lot of night and weekend work

The nanny's role has been expanded in Cindy's interviews and depos ,since she realized saving ICA was dependent on there being a nanny. Remember,at one time she told LE she thought the nanny might be ICA's word for anyone (AMY,Christine,etc)who was babysitting Caylee at the time.

I also believe Cindy only partially bought ICA's explainations from June 16th to July 15th. She knew Casey liked to party and she must have suspected there was no job.George certainly did.
She wanted reassurance by speaking with Caylee,but that wasn't happening. She wrote the "My Caylee is missing" on Myspace. That was not a grandmother who thought her grandaughter was being well cared for by a nanny or by a good mother. She was worried.

You are right in a prior post,I have regrets ,lots of them. My 15 year old committed suicide . I spent the first few hours with family discussing why it must have been an accident.He probably thought he's be found in time or that he would be able to put his foot on the stairs and save himself. Actually he COULD have put a foot back and released the belt around his neck.He also left a note.
Once we realized that, we had to admit....yeah,he did mean to die.The guilt,the what ifs,If onlys ,why,why God,why? The stigma,the speculation that some thought was okay to ask......the assumptions people make,it's horrible. I make it a point of telling people we lost him to suicide because there IS such a stigma,but we have nothing to hide or be ashamed of.

I could have placed the blame squarely at other peoples feet and made them feel responsible. He was a teenager who faced racists at his private school and a new girlfriend who hung up on him that day. His computer and video games were left on .Maybe I could sue for brain damage or blame the cookie company who made the tin of cookies he ate that morning. I made a conscious decision not to put that guilt on anyone.I did not even question anyone,for fear they would think we blamed them,and that was HARD because we STILL have questions,6 yrs later.

I have never believed Cindy thinks Caylee is alive. She knows ,on every level possible that Caylee died. She would be looking for her,screaming every day from the rooftops,that she's alive and someone has her. She would not be able to go on cruises or eat or sit still if she believed Caylee was still out there with God knows what being done to her. :banghead:
JMO

Oh my dear my heart breaks for you for such a terrible loss of a precious son - and yes, I can imagine the questions that must have wracked you and likely still do. So young with so much ahead of him.....

I also had the unfortunate time, in my 20's, of having a very close friend commit suicide by overdosing on her own prescription drugs and she was found lying across her floor with her phone in her hand. She was a drama queen, but full of life and excess. Did she mean it, was she wanting help or just going to say goodbye? After all of that searching we do, I finally had a conversation with her psychiatrist who said I have no answers to help you and in the end does it matter? She is gone.

You are right MissJames and I do not understand. There is a flame that burns in my soul that tells me to chose good over evil, hope over failure, and that salvation is always possible. Beyond that, I have nothing logical to explain my thoughts.

And thank you for your gift of your experience - how difficult that must still be for you to tell. Blessings and I hope one day your heart can only remember the joy of his being.

Now I think I need to retreat to my private corner and have a cry my heart out for our losses.