Granted the study sample is small. Death by strangulation is probably not rife in Finland. However, it is a properly conducted study aimed at profiling offenders in just this type of crime, so it has relevance.
As to your opinion that only males sexually abuse children, perhaps you might like to look at this website? http://www.canadiancrc.com/Female_Sex_Offenders-Female_Sexual_Predators_awareness.aspx
In part, it says
"Sexual abuse by women of children and teens is a subject most parents and caregivers are not familiar with. Female sexual predators go unreported because of a lack of awareness by the public.
Female Sex Offenders- Sexual assault of children by females
75% of sexual predators are male and 25% are female.
86% of the victims of female sexual predators aren't believed, so the crimes go unreported and don't get prosecuted.
Considering these facts, arrest statistics for child sexual offenders by gender are meaningless"
and
"Some research has reported that female perpetrators commit fewer and less intrusive acts of sexual abuse compared to males. While male perpetrators are more likely to engage in anal intercourse and to have the victim engage in oral-genital contact, females tend to use more foreign objects as part of the abusive act (Kaufman et al., 1995)."
"It is interesting to note in the study by Kaufman et al. (1995) that 8% of the female perpetrators were teachers and 23% were babysitters, compared to male perpetrators who were 0% and 8% respectively."
Statistics overwhelmingly say its male offender. LE is testing male suspects against DNA. The RN author claimed male accomplices were 'watching over' JBR.
If the only thing you're using to promote a female offender is use of foreign objects, I'm afraid the male offender argument is far superior.
HOTYH, I originally took task against your statement that "Clearly when a 6 year old girl is victim of sexual assault and strangulation, its always a man"
I believe I have presented evidence of properly conducted studies that indicate that it may have been a female.
You also asked "What was the total number of child penetrations with objects, and how many of the offenders were female?" and I believe this was addressed also, from properly conducted studies.
"JBR's murder HAS sexual aspects. IMO your statistic changes to the point of insignificance with the introduction of the sexual and violent factors of this case." Again, I have presented evidence that this is not a valid argument against the possibility of a female.
I don't expect you to change your belief that a man was the offender, you have a right to believe this just as I have to believe that it more likely was a female.
You can if you wish state as fact something that is only a belief, but I'm afraid you lose credibility when you refuse to acknowledge the possibility of an alternative even when presented with supporting evidence.
What is a fact is that the offender may have been either male or female. End of argument!
Granted the study sample is small. Death by strangulation is probably not rife in Finland. However, it is a properly conducted study aimed at profiling offenders in just this type of crime, so it has relevance.
As to your opinion that only males sexually abuse children, perhaps you might like to look at this website? http://www.canadiancrc.com/Female_Sex_Offenders-Female_Sexual_Predators_awareness.aspx
In part, it says
"Sexual abuse by women of children and teens is a subject most parents and caregivers are not familiar with. Female sexual predators go unreported because of a lack of awareness by the public.
Female Sex Offenders- Sexual assault of children by females
75% of sexual predators are male and 25% are female.
86% of the victims of female sexual predators aren't believed, so the crimes go unreported and don't get prosecuted.
Considering these facts, arrest statistics for child sexual offenders by gender are meaningless"
and
"Some research has reported that female perpetrators commit fewer and less intrusive acts of sexual abuse compared to males. While male perpetrators are more likely to engage in anal intercourse and to have the victim engage in oral-genital contact, females tend to use more foreign objects as part of the abusive act (Kaufman et al., 1995)."
"It is interesting to note in the study by Kaufman et al. (1995) that 8% of the female perpetrators were teachers and 23% were babysitters, compared to male perpetrators who were 0% and 8% respectively."
Not only that; it's now thought that a lot of unsolved murders were committed by women who no one thought to suspect because nobody thought a "girl" could kill.
I'm not nobody.
Lizzie Borden
The lady who drowned her kids in the lake.
The astronaut lady.
The 10 year old girl who killed twice.
Mother kills two daughters while they slept.
That's right, HOTYH. And do you notice the key there? With the exception of Lizzie Borden (who in her day was given a pass by many people because she was a woman), all of those happened within the last 30 years or so. I'm going way back!
I don't think anybody here believes PR is innocent just because she is a woman, or PR and JR are innocent just because parents would never do this.
I don't think this issue is applicable to JBR murder.
Interesting journal article about female sexual abusers from the Institute for Psychological Therapies:HOTYH, I originally took task against your statement that "Clearly when a 6 year old girl is victim of sexual assault and strangulation, its always a man"
I believe I have presented evidence of properly conducted studies that indicate that it may have been a female.
You also asked "What was the total number of child penetrations with objects, and how many of the offenders were female?" and I believe this was addressed also, from properly conducted studies.
"JBR's murder HAS sexual aspects. IMO your statistic changes to the point of insignificance with the introduction of the sexual and violent factors of this case." Again, I have presented evidence that this is not a valid argument against the possibility of a female.
I don't expect you to change your belief that a man was the offender, you have a right to believe this just as I have to believe that it more likely was a female.
You can if you wish state as fact something that is only a belief, but I'm afraid you lose credibility when you refuse to acknowledge the possibility of an alternative even when presented with supporting evidence.
What is a fact is that the offender may have been either male or female. End of argument!
Hey hotyh.
I had been reading about schoolastic programs, sciences and discovered that a section in forensics may be included as curriculum.
Index:
http://www.lyndaelyzoo.com/Forensic...uments/ForensicQuestionedDocumentsLabPage.htm
Individual Characteristics Of Handwriting:
http://www.lyndaelyzoo.com/Forensics page/Forensics labs/Questioned Documents/document analysis.pdf
Analysis of Ransom note form:
Visual Elimination Format
If any of the suspects handwriting can be quickly eliminated without performing a 12-exemplar analysis, you will need to justify your elimination with a brief statement.
Hey TP, you can always sign up to this and become an 'expert' yourself.
http://www.handwritinginsights.com/
Hey MurriFlower.
Expert, smexpert. Intro to forensics, it's neat stuff.
The skills required to write the rn cannot solely be attributed to PR or limited to a 'writer'.
I actually read on one of these websites a while ago, that handwriting analysis is not a reliance on similarity, but rather on differences. That is to say, anyone can try to copy someone's handwriting and come up with any number of similarities in the formation of letters, slope, etc. However, when you look at two examples, you should be looking for things that are not alike to identify if they were written by the same person. Makes sense to me.
Whereas I read someplace that handwriting analysis is where a subject writer is evaluated on their ability to write the entire questioned document.
This demonstrates an intimate knowledge of PR's handwriting and writing habits which was unlikely to have been available to very many people (outside of family).
That it does.
I'm not really sure where else to put this, so I guess here is as good as any. This is quoted material from Gideon Epstein's final report:
Patsy Ramsey has been positively indentified as the ransom note writer. There is no doubt in the view of this examiner. After making my examination of the ransom note and the exemplars of PR, I consulted with Larry Zieglar and Richard Williams, both former FBI document examiners, each with more than 25 years experience. They were both given the same exemplars as myself and they both reached the same conclusion independently.
Epstein also believed that PR had tried to alter her natural handwriting in the samples she provided to police (take note that he says a lot of the things that HOTYH has said in the past):
PR is an accomplished writer. She is normally a rapid writer who has writing skills far better than the average person. She displays that in her exemplars where she demonstrates some of her other styles. If the handwriting exemplars were truly naturally and freely executed, they would be far more rapidly written and contain that quality that we call "careless abandon" which means that the writer is not devoting conscious thought to the writing process. Instead, her exemplars are often very consciouly executed. When asked tp produce exemplars, she did not write as rapidly and unconsciously as she normally would because she was attempting to avoid certain natural formations and habits she was aware she'd made.
Keep in mind that madeleine has made it very clear that document analysis is fraught with pitfalls. One, it's not recognized as a true science; Two, perhaps even more importantly, the "experts" have a very strong "bunker" mentality, where they're right and everyone else is wrong. That mentality is very self-reinforcing (as most of us here could testify). That self-reinforcing tendency gets even worse when the field is small and insular, which the society of traditional document examiners most certainly is. The tradtional experts know that it's in their interest to politic anyone who isn't a member of their club out of the business because they don't want any competition for all of the big-money government jobs and contracts. A by-product of this mentality is similar to that seen among doctors: when one person makes a call, wrong or not, his fellows are hesitant to challenge that call, because they have such great respect for the person and because they don't want to make waves.
The irony here is, Epstein himself has always been quick to point these failings out. He has a rep as a maverick because of that. Moreover, he even claims that he quit the society specifically because they had become so insular and narrow-minded. Take that for what it's worth.
That it does.
I'm not really sure where else to put this, so I guess here is as good as any. This is quoted material from Gideon Epstein's final report:
Patsy Ramsey has been positively indentified as the ransom note writer. There is no doubt in the view of this examiner. After making my examination of the ransom note and the exemplars of PR, I consulted with Larry Zieglar and Richard Williams, both former FBI document examiners, each with more than 25 years experience. They were both given the same exemplars as myself and they both reached the same conclusion independently.
Epstein also believed that PR had tried to alter her natural handwriting in the samples she provided to police (take note that he says a lot of the things that HOTYH has said in the past):
Did she or didn't she?
Depends on which expert you ask I guess.
Out of 73 handwriting samples, hers was the only one examined by four (4) experts, presumably until someone came up with the answer they were after.
"2 Q. (BY MR. WOOD) After your book
3 came out, sir, were you aware that
4 Mr. Ubowski publicly denied the accuracy of
5 the statement that he concluded Patsy Ramsey
6 wrote the ransom note?
7 A. No. You're telling me this for
8 the first time.
9 Q. Are you familiar that Mr. Ubowski
10 stated that he had never reached the
11 conclusion that 24 of her letters out of the
12 26 letters of the alphabet were matched with
13 the ransom note?
14 A. No, I have not heard that.
15 Q. And you stated to the contrary in
16 your book, didn't you?
17 A. Yeah, I stated what I was told by
18 my detective sergeant.
19 Q. And you weren't even, I guess,
20 aware that Mr. Ubowski and the CBI said they
21 don't even make that kind of analysis with
22 respect to the 24 out of the 26 letters of
23 the alphabet, you don't know anything about
24 that --
25 A. No.
112
1 Q. -- in terms of the public
2 statement by the CBI after your book was
3 published?
4 A. The CBI made a public statement?
5 Q. Yes, sir.
6 A. As an organization, I haven't seen
7 that.
8 MR. WOOD: I'll show it to you
9 when we come back a little bit later on.
10 Let's take five minutes.
"
