Who do you think the Zodiac Killer actually is?

[Sor Juana]

Lawrence Kane?
MOO

 

[snooptroop88]

When I started looking through Zodiac letters, I wondered if he was born in this country, there are a lot-- lot-- of spelling errors, and I think some (perhaps even many) are intentional and even ambiguous and arguably clever, but I don't think all those errors are intentional. So I tend to think he's English Second Language because with the exception of these errors, he seems very erudite and articulate. Again, jmo, if he was born in US, he's first generation American.

People on here mention flair for the dramatic. Totally agreed, think he's in the arts, if he's not ESL, he may be in some very "niche" track or industry when it comes to profession like music, where he's highly skilled in reading (and perhaps writing/composing) sheets of music/notes, but not so much otherwise. He mentions disguises. I actually believe him on this, I think he did often disguise himself, and perhaps elaborately. He left survivors, if he had no disguise, I think he'd have been more careful. He made that horrific get-up for himself where he looks like a medieval executioner. He can sew, nobody did that for him. I've wondered if he wasn't working with a theatre troupe in the area/perhaps a traveling troupe. That card he sent, the one with the pen, it's a Jesters card, Jesters by American Greetings. His whole sick act is like a dark , cruel jester. There's something too theatrical about him. Again, I wonder if he wasn't aware of the airplane cement (as I look it up, this is model airplane glue?) perhaps through construction of props or perhaps even through putting together more elaborate costumes. This becomes even more alarming because he'd then be highly skilled with stage makeup and wardrobe and could craft extremely elaborate disguises for himself.

On the night Paul Stine the cabbie was murdered, there was undoubtedly a flurry of activity at Presentation Theater at University of San Francisco. That very next weekend, they were doing opening night for the Mikado, which features prominently in Zodiac's letters. Stine's cab was hailed in the theater district about a 12 min drive from Presentation Theatre. They were then headed to a location about four minutes from Presentation Theater. I believe Zodiac may have been at that theater earlier that day and was returning to a location near that area when he murdered Stine.

Backing up for a moment to the prior August, Zodiac sent a flurry of letters that spanned from July 31 to August 4, 1969. Auditions were advertised for the upcoming Mikado production just mentioned here on August 6. So Zodiac's correspondence ceased right around the time auditions were called for the performance, and resumed shortly before opening night after he murdered Stine. Moreover, one message was sent by Zodiac after he murdered Stine, I believe, and that was October 13. More messages do not start again until November 8, which is closing night for the Mikado production previously mentioned.

Someone on one of the Zodiac threads mentioned they thought his name might be Ken, and I have wondered on this, too. Does anyone else on here suspect Zodiac may be Dutch, of Dutch extraction? Maybe Belgian? I'm wondering if he's Dutch, maybe Belgian, and it relates to that "Ken" point.

 

[australianwebsleuth]

When I started looking through Zodiac letters, I wondered if he was born in this country, there are a lot-- lot-- of spelling errors, and I think some (perhaps even many) are intentional and even ambiguous and arguably clever, but I don't think all those errors are intentional. So I tend to think he's English Second Language because with the exception of these errors, he seems very erudite and articulate. Again, jmo, if he was born in US, he's first generation American.

People on here mention flair for the dramatic. Totally agreed, think he's in the arts, if he's not ESL, he may be in some very "niche" track or industry when it comes to profession like music, where he's highly skilled in reading (and perhaps writing/composing) sheets of music/notes, but not so much otherwise. He mentions disguises. I actually believe him on this, I think he did often disguise himself, and perhaps elaborately. He left survivors, if he had no disguise, I think he'd have been more careful. He made that horrific get-up for himself where he looks like a medieval executioner. He can sew, nobody did that for him. I've wondered if he wasn't working with a theatre troupe in the area/perhaps a traveling troupe. That card he sent, the one with the pen, it's a Jesters card, Jesters by American Greetings. His whole sick act is like a dark , cruel jester. There's something too theatrical about him. Again, I wonder if he wasn't aware of the airplane cement (as I look it up, this is model airplane glue?) perhaps through construction of props or perhaps even through putting together more elaborate costumes. This becomes even more alarming because he'd then be highly skilled with stage makeup and wardrobe and could craft extremely elaborate disguises for himself.

On the night Paul Stine the cabbie was murdered, there was undoubtedly a flurry of activity at Presentation Theater at University of San Francisco. That very next weekend, they were doing opening night for the Mikado, which features prominently in Zodiac's letters. Stine's cab was hailed in the theater district about a 12 min drive from Presentation Theatre. They were then headed to a location about four minutes from Presentation Theater. I believe Zodiac may have been at that theater earlier that day and was returning to a location near that area when he murdered Stine.

Backing up for a moment to the prior August, Zodiac sent a flurry of letters that spanned from July 31 to August 4, 1969. Auditions were advertised for the upcoming Mikado production just mentioned here on August 6. So Zodiac's correspondence ceased right around the time auditions were called for the performance, and resumed shortly before opening night after he murdered Stine. Moreover, one message was sent by Zodiac after he murdered Stine, I believe, and that was October 13. More messages do not start again until November 8, which is closing night for the Mikado production previously mentioned.

Someone on one of the Zodiac threads mentioned they thought his name might be Ken, and I have wondered on this, too. Does anyone else on here suspect Zodiac may be Dutch, of Dutch extraction? Maybe Belgian? I'm wondering if he's Dutch, maybe Belgian, and it relates to that "Ken" point.

The mikado is about law enforcement behaving badly and murdering young lovers.

 

[Oakie]

The circumstantial evidence supporting William McDuff Andrew is piling up. At this link:
Zodiac Speaking
you'll find the May 24, 2025 episode of the Zodiac Speaking podcast, where more evidence is revealed. The number of "coincidences" is astonishing. I recommend listening.

 

[Hustling01]

Loring dale hill is a great suspect. Recently the police said he has tested positive for a dna hit on a victim that is being developed currently not sure who it hit on. Look on facebook zodiac killer and me its all on there

 

[Hustling01]

The circumstantial evidence supporting William McDuff Andrew is piling up. At this link:
Zodiac Speaking
you'll find the May 24, 2025 episode of the Zodiac Speaking podcast, where more evidence is revealed. The number of "coincidences" is astonishing. I recommend listening.

is that his correct name?

 

[snooptroop88]

Continuing to try and find ties for him to arts & universities. I did some work with the PARADICE and SLAVES. First I did them separately ("paradice," then "slaves"), and then I tried them together. And here's what I came up with:

P A R A D I C E S L A V E S

And I figured I'd use the missing "N" because he has that backwards "n" thrown in there at one point on the same image. Here's what I got:

PL IS CARDENAS AVE This leaves an extra "a." So... CARDENAS AVE IS A PL

"PL" is probably public library, but wondering if it might also be "parking lot." And there is a library, it's on the San Francisco State campus but it's open to the general public and used to be the San Francisco State Library until the name was changed to J. Paul Leonard Library in 1976. It's open to the general public. People can park for this library at the back on Cardenas Ave, according to students online-- but one needs to be careful to watch the time zones to avoid ticketing. I'm seeing there is a small paid parking lot at the intersection of Holloway and Cardenas, and they take cash only, has to be exact change. Remember the couple where he demanded they provide wallets, purses, etc, etc, and then all he took was the pocket change? I've always wondered if that wasn't for tolls or parking.

There's an interesting view with that map in terms of the Zodiac...

And still thinking... PAL IS CARDENAS AVE?? And yet an additional note: Jenny Low Chang was found murdered in that library in 1977. She evidently (according to some sources) accessed a certain portion of the library where only certain personnel had keys, she had no keys to this area. I'm finding this positively freakish in light of the other supposed Zodiac "secret pal" card with-- a set of keys. I don't care what they're to, I just can't help but notice the keys aspect, and yes, really wondering.

 

[snarast]

If I had to say one person I would say Paul Stine was the Zodiac. That’s the only way the last Z murder ups the ante.

I don’t really believe that but…the Paul Stine murder really irks me.

 

[sandy betts]

I have long wondered about Darline and what role she might have played in her own murder. The striking similarity in appearance of Ferrin and Betty Lou Jensen, who had been killed with her boyfriend Faraday in December, 1968...was the Jensen-Faraday killing a mistaken identity?
The two killings are eeriely similar too. Then the subsequent ones are quite different. I think this case has a lot of smoke and mirrors, partly a deliberate act by whoever Z was...or if more than one person. I'd not rule that out

I believe Betty Lou and David were in the wrong place at the wrong time and were killed by Zodiac. There was a shift change at the Syar industries, which was near the crime scene, at 885 Lake Herman Rd. My two brother in Laws worked there is how I knew about the shift change at 11 pm. Most of Zodiac's bomb making equipment could be found at that company. Zodiac could have worked at Syar! I agree there was more than one killer in the Zodiac crimes. I saw my suspect once with another man, a bit younger than he was. Zodiac looked to be 30 years old in 1969. In the picture I took of him in Aug. 1990, he looked about 50 years old. He has a lazy eye, and his face and mouth are slightly paralyzed on one side. That is why he talks in a slow, odd way. kind of a drawl, but not like a southern drawl. (No accent) His eyes are Hazel, and he has all of the scars that Kathleen Johns said she saw! Kathleen and I picked the same picture of a suspect shown to us in a photo lineup. We were told he was Larry Kane from Lake Tahoe, NV. except, when Kane died, my suspect was still alive, so he couldn't have been Kane; he just looked similar to Kane. (Kane had a New York accent) Darlene's family and I believed Darlene was in a counterfeit ring in Vallejo; she had a lot of extra money all of a sudden, months before she was killed. I think she wanted out after she bought her home and had her baby. Her killer was afraid she was going to talk, and that is what got her killed!

 

[sandy betts]

I wish I can name my suspect. He was a Vallejo police officer who was in a relationship with Darlene Ferrin.

Pretty sure he didn’t kill Jensen and Faraday. He was very eager to take ownership though. I suspect it gave him an alibis and sent detectives looking in the wrong direction.

I also think that he did not want to kill Shephard Lots of medical negligence if you look closely. Most of her injuries were superficial on autopsy. She was not resuscitated properly.

He and officer Hoffmann had been in altercation. Hoffman is also been named as a Zodiac suspect by his grandson. Solving the riddle gives you his surname. Not sure whether he was set up by Hoffmann. Not enough information to explore.

Those with a knowledge of the case and 1960’s popular culture will be able to figure it out.

I dated the cop you are accusing; he was not the Zodiac!!!! Buzz and I dated for about five years. He told me he went out with Darlene only one time, and he did not have a relationship with Darlene! Buzz and I used to park in areas of Vallejo, to try and catch Zodiac, Buzz had a 9 mil ready to shoot Zodiac! DOJ told my detective, the true Zodiac has a lazy eye, Buzz didn't have a lazy eye. He was at the police station when Zodiac phoned VPD. And Richard Hoffman was at the hospital with Mike Mageau when Zodiac placed his call to Nancy Slover at VPD.

 

[sandy betts]

If I had to say one person I would say Paul Stine was the Zodiac. That’s the only way the last Z murder ups the ante.

I don’t really believe that but…the Paul Stine murder really irks me.

Zodiac didn't stop killing, he was still killing in Contra Costa County through 1999! I found some of the girls he tried to kill, who saw the picture I took of my suspect. They told me he had tried to kill them; they were lucky to get away from him!

 

[chrism23]

I assume that everyone paying attention to this thread by now has watched The Zodiac Speaks now newly streaming on Netflix. 3 episodes. I don't think anyone can come away from that not totally convinced that Leigh Allen, Mr. Allen, is the Zodiac. I am rarely convinced by "reality" shows, as I am sure most of you are. But this one, for me, leaves absolutely no doubt. If after watching it, and you disagree. post a reply telling me why, I would be curious. I can't poke any holes in the overwhelming evidence they present,

 

[sandy betts]

I assume that everyone paying attention to this thread by now has watched The Zodiac Speaks now newly streaming on Netflix. 3 episodes. I don't think anyone can come away from that not totally convinced that Leigh Allen, Mr. Allen, is the Zodiac. I am rarely convinced by "reality" shows, as I am sure most of you are. But this one, for me, leaves absolutely no doubt. If after watching it, and you disagree. post a reply telling me why, I would be curious. I can't poke any holes in the overwhelming evidence they present,

I watched the three episodes, and I believe those people were not telling the truth. I know the Zodiac case better than most. I have studied it for over 50 years. When the now adults, who were the kids that Art Allen took with him to at least one crime scene, I knew for sure, they were not telling the truth! They said Art took them to Santa Barbara County, to the beach killing of Robert Domingos and Linda Edwards on June 4th, 1963. They said he left them there in the car for over an hour. That murder didn't take an hour to commit. They said he came back with blood all over him. I guess they didn't know those victims were not stabbed, they were shot at a distance, so no way Art Allen would have blood all over him! They didn't mention that Art Allen would have taken a 22 Cal. rifle with him, nor did they say they heard gunshots. I have been to each crime scene more than once. I go to all of the anniversaries of the crimes Zodiac has committed, each year, to keep the victims' stories alive and never forgotten! Shame on the people who want their 15 minutes of fame, on the backs of the murdered victims!

 

[333_OnlyHalfEvil]

Lawrence Kane gets my vote as of now.

Subject to change whenever I go back down that particular rabbit hole.

 

[Hustling01]

I watched the three episodes, and I believe those people were not telling the truth. I know the Zodiac case better than most. I have studied it for over 50 years. When the now adults, who were the kids that Art Allen took with him to at least one crime scene, I knew for sure, they were not telling the truth! They said Art took them to Santa Barbara County, to the beach killing of Robert Domingos and Linda Edwards on June 4th, 1963. They said he left them there in the car for over an hour. That murder didn't take an hour to commit. They said he came back with blood all over him. I guess they didn't know those victims were not stabbed, they were shot at a distance, so no way Art Allen would have blood all over him! They didn't mention that Art Allen would have taken a 22 Cal. rifle with him, nor did they say they heard gunshots. I have been to each crime scene more than once. I go to all of the anniversaries of the crimes Zodiac has committed, each year, to keep the victims' stories alive and never forgotten! Shame on the people who want their 15 minutes of fame, on the backs of the murdered victims! ALA is a terrible suspect

 

[Hustling01]

Lawrence Kane gets my vote as of now.

Subject to change whenever I go back down that particular rabbit hole.

Nah

Lawrence Kane?
MOO

No i think z was someone we have not heard of

 

[djtopcat]

I believe the Zodiac very well could have been Chuck Lindsey who at the time was a Solano County Sheriffs Department officer, and crime scene photographer who lived in Blue Rock Springs very close to the Z crime scenes outside of SF.
He was by all accounts a very weird person. Even Graysmith considered him a suspect in his book. He isn't talked about as much, but if there ever was a person capable of getting away with all the Zodiac crimes it would be a cop! In Lindsey's case a very corrupt and disturbed one. He was kicked off the force for stealing guns from the department. You should still be able to Google the newspaper article.

 

[sandy betts]

Nah

No i think z was someone we have not heard of

Larry Kane has been eliminated as a Zodiac suspect; his prints and DNA, do not match what LE have for Zodiac. I studied Kane for ten years, because I was told my suspect had to be Kane. It wasn't until Kane died, and my suspect was still stalking me, I knew he couldn't be Kane. The real Zodiac is younger than Kane. My suspect is in his late 80s now.

 

[moonkraken]

I have a lot of reasons to think that it was Ed Edwards.
1. Edwards was a serial killer. There is no doubt. He died while on Death Row.
2. He like to kill couples who were parking, in secluded areas.
3. He enjoyed setting others up to take blame for his crimes. (Perhaps he knew Leigh Allen. Knew about Leigh's Zodiac watch from his mom). He might also have been setting up Frank Dryman, who he knew from Deer Lodge Prison. ('56-'59) Dryman lived in Vallejo at the time of the Blue Rock Springs Park murder and the Lake Berryessa murder. Why would the killer mention Deer Lodge Prison? Makes no sense, TMI). Edwards borrowed a gun from a neighbor in Ohio, killed Dannie Law Gloeckner. He later returned to the neighbor's house, disguised at a cop, questioning the wife about himself! She recognized him later. Must have been a chilling moment.
4. He taunted the cops in other cases. Loved to write, recorded himself incessantly, even went on "To Tell the Truth" TV game show. Wrote a book on his crimes while he was still committing them.
5. He never stayed in an area very long. He killed and then moved to another area. Never killed in the same jurisdiction. This could be why the killings stopped. He was no longer in the Bay Area, California.
6. His daughter April's memories and experiences with her dad, he even took his kids to one of his crime scenes in Ohio when they were little! She is the only reason he was caught for murders there. She turned him in. She also thinks he could very well be Zodiac.
7. He was very smart criminal. He knew about coding from his time in the Marines. I think he made codes that were just nonsense so it would seem like he wrote unsolvable code.
8. He mixed lies with the truth. He confessed to crimes he didn't commit and also said that there are men in prison serving time for his crimes. He was a very very bad man. He gets my vote out of the 16 men that I researched.
9. Why did he never confess to being the Zodiac? His ego was so huge that he wanted to have people wondering about it forever... And, here we are, all his "slaves" still trying to figure it out.

 

[333_OnlyHalfEvil]

The most solid evidence would indicate that Zodiac committed a series of four attacks which resulted in five deaths and two seriously wounded victims.

Those four attacks took place between December 1968 and October 1969. Four different firearms were used during the course of each of those attacks. During the third attack, which took place at Lake Berryessa, California, one of the two victims, Bryan Hartnell, did survive.

Hartnell described the assailant as being hooded and armed with both an automatic pistol (which Hartnell saw up close and described as possibly being a Model 1911 Colt .45) and a foot-long bayonet-type knife which had a wooden handle with brass rivets or screws through the handle. The sheath holding the knife was described as made of wood.

After tying up the two Lake Berryessa victims, the assailant stabbed them numerous times with the described knife. No weapon was found at the crime scene at the time.

Some months or years later, a Lee Metford bayonet was found by an individual at Lake Berryessa, but it was not (to my knowledge) connected officially to the attack or identified by LE as the murder weapon.

Here is a photo of a bayonet similar to the Lake Berryessa weapon described by the victim.


British Lee Metford Bayonet of Boer War time, shortened and sharpened.



Cecelia Ann Shepard (1947-1969)
Stabbed to death at Lake Berryessa, California, on 29 September 1969.

I'd be real curious to see what DNA is on that random bayonet someone found. Its a heck of a coincidence they found one at the same location later where one had been used in a murder. Unless bayonets were just growing on trees back then.