Why A Scarf?

[Toltec]

I wonder if when they have the photos developed and number them and show them, if they are in the same order as snapped, or does it matter? I am sure in some cases it is imperative to keep them in the order in which they were taken, but is it imperative to always do that? Maybe someone knows the answer to that LE question.

Thanks, Trixie, for the link.

Zman, you are a little testy.

LE did not ask the Ramseys the who where and why of the scarf. Who took the scarf from the wet-bar area and where is it today?

 

[BlueCrab]

LE did not ask the Ramseys the who where and why of the scarf. Who took the scarf from the wet-bar area and where is it today?

Toltec,

I've often wondered whether that black and red scarf (and not Patsy's jacket) was the source of the four red fibers found on the sticky side of the duct tape.

Also, the erotic asphyxiation ligature on JonBenet's neck would have needed padding, when used as a sexual masturbation device, to prevent the rope from leaving marks on the neck. Practitioners of EA often use such things as scarfs and towels for this purpose.

 

[Toltec]

Toltec,

I've often wondered whether that black and red scarf (and not Patsy's jacket) was the source of the four red fibers found on the sticky side of the duct tape.

Also, the erotic asphyxiation ligature on JonBenet's neck would have needed padding, when used as a sexual masturbation device, to prevent the rope from leaving marks on the neck. Practitioners of EA often use such things as scarfs and towels for this purpose.

I don't think we'll ever know because the scarf went poof along with the duct tape and cord, and the red pen.

Patsy clearly tucked some things in her fur boots as she ran with the wind from Tara.

 

[Charlie]

I never understood the reasoning behind the BPD not wanting to exhume JBR's body. I understand it being a horrible ordeal but so many questions could be answered. The Rams believed that JBR was at rest and that she shouldnt be distubred...fair enough, but what would be worse...maybe never solving the case because of unanswered questions.

Imagine (god willing) this was ever taken to court, the stun gun marks would play a central role for defence if were a ram on trial. If the prosecution wanted the counter the stun gun remarks the only way they could do this would be to have somone actually examine them.So either way you would have to exhume so why not NOW!

2 Major Reasons.
1. Stun Gun Marks
2. Scarf Trace material

 

[Linda7NJ]

I never understood the reasoning behind the BPD not wanting to exhume JBR's body. I understand it being a horrible ordeal but so many questions could be answered. The Rams believed that JBR was at rest and that she shouldnt be distubred...fair enough, but what would be worse...maybe never solving the case because of unanswered questions.

Imagine (god willing) this was ever taken to court, the stun gun marks would play a central role for defence if were a ram on trial. If the prosecution wanted the counter the stun gun remarks the only way they could do this would be to have somone actually examine them.So either way you would have to exhume so why not NOW!

2 Major Reasons.
1. Stun Gun Marks
2. Scarf Trace material

Putting myself in the innocent Ramsey's shoes, I personally would not allow my child to be ripped from the grave. Yes, it may answer questions for investigators, but my child is dead. I know I didn't do it and that's all the answers I need.

Putting myself in guilty Ramsey's shoes, I wouldn't want the child to be exhumed if there was incriminating evidence against me to be found.

So I guess the exhumation doesn't answer anything

 

[Charlie]

Putting myself in the innocent Ramsey's shoes, I personally would not allow my child to be ripped from the grave. Yes, it may answer questions for investigators, but my child is dead. I know I didn't do it and that's all the answers I need.

Putting myself in guilty Ramsey's shoes, I wouldn't want the child to be exhumed if there was incriminating evidence against me to be found.

So I guess the exhumation doesn't answer anything

So basically your saying as long as the ramseys are safe in knowing that they are innocent thats all the matters...forget JBR and her justice as long as the ramseys have the comfort of thier innocence. If my child was murdered...i would be thinking about my child not myself. I wouldnt want my child ripped from the grave either, but sometimes you have to endure a little pain for somone else, that someone being your dead child. You never know this selfless act by the Ramseys could turn in thier favor...doubt it but

Exhumation would answer questions for everyone not just investigators.

Your correct about the rams not wanting JBR to be exhumed, as evidence found could be incriminating against them...but its not up to the rams whether JBR be exhumed or not. The BPD can override the Rams, and if it were taken to court the rams would definetly not have a say.

Futhermore, six feet under is JBRs body...thats all. Her soul is gone, JBR isnt there anymore, its just a shell. You may or may not believe in heaven, either way JonBenet isnt there anymore

 

[BlueCrab]

Exhumation would answer questions for everyone not just investigators.
(

Charlie,

Unfortunately, it's too late. Putrefaction of a buried child's body is normally complete after about 5 years. JonBenet has been buried for almost 9 years.

The body, by court order, should have been dug up immediately after the stun gun became an issue.

 

[capps]

Assuming I was an innocent parent,the only time I would consider exhuming my little girls'body,would be if it would solve the crime.In this case it would only prove that a stun gun was used,not who used it. Just another little piece to the puzzle,not reason enough IMO to exhume.

 

[Linda7NJ]

EDITED

So basically your saying as long as the ramseys are safe in knowing that they are innocent thats all the matters...forget JBR and her justice as long as the ramseys have the comfort of thier innocence. If my child was murdered...i would be thinking about my child not myself. I wouldnt want my child ripped from the grave either, but sometimes you have to endure a little pain for somone else, that someone being your dead child. You never know this selfless act by the Ramseys could turn in thier favor...doubt it but

Putting myself in their " innocent" shoes & knowing LE was only seriously considering ME as the murderer, knowing I am innocent would be enough. My child's body would remain at rest.

BTW I don't believe a stun gun was used at all and I am not convinced the Ramsey's are innocent. Just trying to be objective.

 

[Charlie]

If JBR exhumation has gone past its due date...good luck to any prosecutor who ever gets the chance to take this case to court...the defence will allways be able to place reasonable doubt in any juror's mind about whether a stun gun was used, no matter what expert they get up on the stand that says otherwise.

 

[why_nutt]

If JBR exhumation has gone past its due date...good luck to any prosecutor who ever gets the chance to take this case to court...the defence will allways be able to place reasonable doubt in any juror's mind about whether a stun gun was used, no matter what expert they get up on the stand that says otherwise.

This is perhaps the single greatest criticism of the Ramseys there is to be made. Everything they have done, every single thing, from the moment of the 911 call onwards, has been a veritable gift to JonBenet's killer, and this can be said whether the Ramseys are guilty or someone else is. Anyone who wants to say "Oh, the Ramseys are so innocent, they knew nothing of the criminal justice system and could not possibly have set themselves up to exploit its vulnerabilities," I have three words to say: You Are Wrong. Patsy Ramsey, in the fall of 1996, set herself up as an expert in jury manipulation when she spoke to the prosecution and plaintiff in the assault case she sat on, and she dared to tell the defense how to do his job. It takes balls to do that. The vast majority of jurors would not bother. Yet here is sweet little Southern belle Patsy, who don't know nuthin' 'bout birthin' no babies (if you go by her story of JonBenet's birth in DOI), telling a defense attorney what he should have done.

Yes, you can bet that, at the very least, Patsy Ramsey knew how to contaminate a jury pool if she wanted to.

 

[BlueCrab]

Assuming I was an innocent parent,the only time I would consider exhuming my little girls'body,would be if it would solve the crime.In this case it would only prove that a stun gun was used,not who used it. Just another little piece to the puzzle,not reason enough IMO to exhume.

capps,

LE should have gotten a court order to exhume the body as soon as the stun gun controversy became known. With a court order the Ramseys would have no say in the exhumation matter.

Positive proof that a stun gun had been used on a six-year-old girl would put the crime in the sadistic torture realm. Even without a scientific analysis of the skin itself, the autopsy photo evidence of apparent stun gun injuries on JonBenet is fairly convincing by itself.

I personally lean toward the probability that a stun gun had been used on JonBenet, and it wasn't by an intruder. THere was no intruder. I think the Ramseys had a stun gun in the house, and it could have been a Christmas gift from Patsy to John. They had shopped stun guns in Florida and even had an instruction video on stun guns. IMO the stun gun is one of the missing items of evidence in this crime.

BlueCrab

 

[tipper]

As I recall Boulder LE was all set to exhume her and then they got cold feet. Perhaps because if a stun gun was definitively proven it would hurt the case against the Ramseys.

Do you have a source for the "shopping for stun guns?" My recollection is while in FL for the superbowl they visited a spy shop to see if there was a device to check on whether a phone has been bugged. The answer was no. The video was a free giveaway along with the store's catalogue and in Spanish.

 

[BlueCrab]

As I recall Boulder LE was all set to exhume her and then they got cold feet. Perhaps because if a stun gun was definitively proven it would hurt the case against the Ramseys.

Do you have a source for the "shopping for stun guns?" My recollection is while in FL for the superbowl they visited a spy shop to see if there was a device to check on whether a phone has been bugged. The answer was no. The video was a free giveaway along with the store's catalogue and in Spanish.

tipper,

The Ramseys wouldn't have been sent a stun gun video if they were not interested in stun guns.

 

[capps]

capps,

LE should have gotten a court order to exhume the body as soon as the stun gun controversy became known. With a court order the Ramseys would have no say in the exhumation matter.

Positive proof that a stun gun had been used on a six-year-old girl would put the crime in the sadistic torture realm. Even without a scientific analysis of the skin itself, the autopsy photo evidence of apparent stun gun injuries on JonBenet is fairly convincing by itself.

I personally lean toward the probability that a stun gun had been used on JonBenet, and it wasn't by an intruder. THere was no intruder. I think the Ramseys had a stun gun in the house, and it could have been a Christmas gift from Patsy to John. They had shopped stun guns in Florida and even had an instruction video on stun guns. IMO the stun gun is one of the missing items of evidence in this crime.

BlueCrab

BlueCrab,

I too believe a stun gun was used,but no stun gun was ever found. So again,if the body was exhumed it would only prove that a stun gun was used,not who used it.So why bother.

Also ...weren't credit card records checked,I would think if Patsy bought it for John as a gift,she would probably have charged it,and it would have shown on the records. The LE would have jumped for joy with that finding!

I think there was a stun gun used ... by an intruder.

 

[tipper]

tipper,

The Ramseys wouldn't have been sent a stun gun video if they were not interested in stun guns.

Doesn't appear to have been sent. Will have to look for a source about it being in spanish.

17 We were in Coral Gables and I told
18 these guys, I said -- we were in Coral Gables

19 and we were talking about the street and there

20 was this spy shop that we went into and I was

21 curious about if there was a device that you

22 could buy that you could figure out if your

23 phones were tapped. That had been a big concern

24 about gee, there is a lot of stuff going on in

25 our business, and gee what, you know, what if we

0649

1 are naive and somebody has tapped our phone and

2 really, that could be very damaging to us in

3 other negotiations and so forth.

4 So I went in there specifically

5 asking is there a device like that you can buy

6 and basically the answer I got was no, that's

7 pretty tough to do but do, but here's all the

8 other stuff you can do, and he showed us how you

9 can put bugs in. It's easy to bug something,

10 pretty difficult to find the bug is kind of what

11 I came out of that. It actually made me more

12 worried about what I was worried about.

13 But he gave us a video and said

14 here's a catalog of our stuff and we threw it in

15 our suitcase, we never looked at it, threw it in

16 a drawer, sat there for years.

 

[capps]

Tipper,

In DOI,John claims the video was played,and it was in Spanish.

 

[tipper]

Thanks - perhaps I can find it this evening. There are several mentions on google, but I haven't been able to check them out. Many appear to just be references from posters.

 

[Becba]

Tipper,

In DOI,John claims the video was played,and it was in Spanish.

That makes me think the video came from another country in an attempt to not buy one legally here.
Does PR or JR speak spanish? It is taught in schools everywhere.

 

[Camper]

I am wondering IF ordering instructions were included in the video?

I am this morning reminded of the Old Andy Griffith show, when Opie and his buddies ordered some stuff to sell and earn money with, salve er sumthin', Barney got involved and they all ended up with a living room full of the stuff.

Wonder IF the children received allowances and how much?

You can tell where I am going with this one.

IF IF PR doesn't remember if JonBenet had a Christmas bath, then maybe the folks didn't know if someone ordered a stun
gun. Another off the wall thought. Wonder IF the typical stun gun video would have an ordering age disclaimer and HOW would they know HOW old the person was ordering it by mail?


Have a nice day. :woohoo:


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