Why BOTH Garrote & Head Bash?

[DeeDee249]

Whoa! JBR's go-to-the-White's outfit had a belt, and the belt was found in the basement? Since 1996 I've been following this case, and this is the first time this fact has come to my attention? I'm dumbfounded. What was it doing there? The pants remained in JBR's room, or were taken up there; they're in the CS photos. Thanks, quest, very much.

Earlier today I was thinking that perhaps everything happened that night before anyone dressed for bed. Patsy we knew about, and John we supposed, because his shirt fibers were in JBR's private parts, and now the belt suggests JBR went to the basement in her street clothes at some point. Do we have any information about Burke's clothes or their fibers being found in an odd place?
.

I don't know about fibers, but BR's DNA was found on the pink Barbie nightie that was found on top of the white blanket covering JB.

 

[gramcracker]

I think the dust on her feet has to be sourced somewhere in the basement because so much of the house was carpeted, and with LHP cleaning 3 days per week/6 hours per day I can't see the bathroom, kitchen, butler pantry floors being dusty. especially during the holiday entertaining season (like their big party on the 17th)

 

[Meara]

Charter, thanks very much for the information and for the link. I did read otg's experiment this summer and value his work greatly; it's impressive. I also found it very poignant. Here was a person who never met JonBenet who spent weeks of his life studying, experimenting, and reporting on this one point of evidence, while her parents didn't even accompany her broken little body to the morgue.

* * * *

What shape the weight ends were or how they might correspond with the head injury, I don't know. it seems to me, though, that they were coated, like the Maglight, and in that respect could have produced the lethal but closed skull fracture.

Sorry, still no link for JR's detail about the weights; it's somewhere in his BDA statement....

 

[Meara]

DeeDee, your post reminded me of the "Dust Detective" thread over on FFJ. For anyone interested:

[ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9975"]The Dust Detective and the JBR case - Forums For Justice[/ame]

 

[Tadpole12]

From photos taken of the basement/laundry area was this exchange between Trip DeMuth and PR regarding identification of photos. PR identified the belt which went with JB's black pants which were laid on the bed. From ACR:
0463-16) TRIP DEMUTH: All right. Go back here. 386, do you recognize those articles of clothing? PATSY RAMSEY: This is her little velvet belt. TRIP DEMUTH: That is photo 386, it is the article of clothing on the right of the picture. What belt? PATSY RAMSEY: Little Gap belt. TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. PATSY RAMSEY: She would have worn to the White's.

IIRC, one poster speculated that JB was undressed in the basement area. Also, the bottom of her feet showed dust. Would it be possible that her pants were placed up on the bed after she was harmed in the basement? Seems like the kids just dropped their pants on the floor, so maybe a parent placed the pants on the bed? moo

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-crime-photos.htm

Heyya questfortrue,

0331-15) TOM HANEY: Okay. 55. PATSY RAMSEY: The (inaudible), house. These are little -- the little black shoes with the leopard or whatever skin on it. TOM HANEY: Those are on the floor inside the door? PATSY RAMSEY: I believe she wore those with her little velvet outfit.

#055, so are JBR's shoes in the basement then?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-crime-photos.htm

Heyya questfortrue,

0331-15) TOM HANEY: Okay. 55. PATSY RAMSEY: The (inaudible), house. These are little -- the little black shoes with the leopard or whatever skin on it. TOM HANEY: Those are on the floor inside the door? PATSY RAMSEY: I believe she wore those with her little velvet outfit.

#055, so are JBR's shoes in the basement then?

I think they were beside the door leading to the garage.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I'm not at all sure why so many people are of the belief that JB's black velvet pants were located in her bedroom. It's been awhile since I read the interview transcripts, but to the best of my recollection, Patsy described the black object on the spare bed as the black velvet vest. She was asked about a pair of black pants on the bathroom floor, but she never indicated that those were the black velvet pants JB wore to the Whites. In fact, she seemed to imply that they were pants she may have worn Christmas day before changing to go to the Whites. Granted, we have to take her comments with a boatload of salt, but if these were the black velvet pants, wouldn't LE have taken them as evidence? I've never read anywhere that those pants were in the possession of LE. Has anyone else ever read that?

 

[Mama2JML]

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-crime-photos.htm

Heyya questfortrue,

0331-15) TOM HANEY: Okay. 55. PATSY RAMSEY: The (inaudible), house. These are little -- the little black shoes with the leopard or whatever skin on it. TOM HANEY: Those are on the floor inside the door? PATSY RAMSEY: I believe she wore those with her little velvet outfit.

#055, so are JBR's shoes in the basement then?

Patsy identified JonBenet's shoes in photo #55, so it seems they were found in JB's bedroom. These excerpts from PR's '98 LE interview are interesting:

1 anything else, get back to the photos, let's see.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you feel all right?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, I am all right.
4 TOM HANEY: We left off, I think here on 52,
5 I think, unless there is something else that you
6 noticed. 53 was the last. 53 is the next.
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Like the photo at the top of
8 the spiral stairwell.
9 TOM HANEY: 54.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Somewhere in there, that looks
11 like her little red jump suit there.
12 TOM HANEY: I think we do have -- excuse me,
13 a little better of that. Anything else in that?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Nothing else.
15 TOM HANEY: Okay. 55.
16 PATSY RAMSEY: The (inaudible), house. These
17 are little -- the little black shoes with the leopard
18 or whatever skin on it.
19 TOM HANEY: Those are on the floor inside the
20 door?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: I believe she wore those with
22 her little velvet outfit.
23 TOM HANEY: What about?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible).
25 TOM HANEY: Do you know what was in there?
0332
1 PATSY RAMSEY: No. We had a lot of presents
2 around. I wrapped a lot of gifts, don't know what was
3 in there.
4 TOM HANEY: There is another photo of that
5 bag.
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh.
7 TOM HANEY: Fifty-six.
8 PATSY RAMSEY: This is the laundry area
9 there. I hang things out to dry here.
10 TOM HANEY: Can you identify any of the items
11 that are there as having been worn recently?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Not really. I can't really
13 tell what they are.
14 TOM HANEY: There is one item up here, I
15 think a dryer.
16 PATSY RAMSEY: A dryer, yeah.
17 TOM HANEY: It appears to be some sort of
18 pink -- not sure, a pink material.
19 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
20 TOM HANEY: I don't. That is why I was
21 asking.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
23 TOM HANEY: Nothing unusual?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
25 TOM HANEY: Okay. Fifty-seven, show the --
0333
1 TRIP DEMUTH: Fifty-seven and 58.
2 TOM HANEY: Why don't you tell us what that
3 is.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: That is the red jump suit that
5 she wore at the performance at the little jacket
6 (inaudible).
7 TOM HANEY: What color is the jacket?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: It is red velvet.
9 TOM HANEY: What were you doing with that
10 jump suit that morning?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: There were some spots on it,
12 and I was kind of looking at them thinking that when I
13 got back from the lake I would take it to the
14 dry-cleaner or whatever.
15 A kitchen knife.
16 TOM HANEY: What would that be doing there?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
18 TOM HANEY: It does look like a kitchen
19 knife.
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh. I don't know what it
21 is doing there.
22 TOM HANEY: Do you recall yourself having
23 anything to do with that knife being there?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: No. Is it on something? Is
25 that --
0334
1 TOM HANEY: I think that is just a shadow,
2 but a reflection off the --
3 PATSY RAMSEY: There. There is a tiny
4 yellowish color there. Can you see that?
5 I'm not sure if that is one of my kitchen
6 knives, to tell you the truth. That must be something.
7 TOM HANEY: We would have that.
8 PATSY RAMSEY: I could see that. In the
9 picture it looks like it is a very thin blade, like a
10 grapefruit knife or something.
11 TOM HANEY: What about the handle?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: I had some wooden handle
13 knives, but I don't know why I would have it there in
14 the kitchen, you know. I don't know why it is there.
15 TOM HANEY: Could one of the children brought
16 that?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: No. No. No.

...

16 TOM HANEY: Okay. I have about 1:46 p.m.
17 and we're back on videotape. Same people with
18 the exception Ellis Armistead is gone, having
19 been replaced by Jennifer Getty, correct? I
20 think we left off on the broke, according to the
21 notes that I have, but I think we're finished
22 with that.
23 TRIP DeMUTH: Yes.
24 TOM HANEY: We finished those. And the
25 next photo has no number on it, but that bag
0534
1 that we had been talking about earlier in
2 JonBenet's room there were some things in it and
3 if you can just take a peek at that photo and
4 the next one. And the second one has JB2 on it,
5 this one has JB and nothing else.
6 PATSY RAMSEY: That looks like a little
7 Tupperware container.
8 TOM HANEY: Okay.
9 PATSY RAMSEY: But I can't, I can't tell
10 what's in it, it's too fuzzy. I don't know you
11 all or something.
12 TOM HANEY: Okay. Do you recall the bag --
13 and we looked at it earlier from different
14 angles --
15 PATSY RAMSEY: A little gift bag or
16 something.
17 TOM HANEY: It appears to be.
18 (Video went out, audio still on.)
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Some of it -- I don't know.
20 Could you give me a hint or --
21 TOM HANEY: Well, not exactly. You know,
22 you have --
23 PATSY RAMSEY: Is it Sid, is it?
24 TOM HANEY: Well, and that we don't, we
25 don't really know, or I don't know.
0535
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, she had some little
2 bead things, little like plastic little beads
3 that you iron together that were, you know,
4 teeny little different colors, yellow, blue,
5 red, whatever, and that might be that
6 (inaudible).
7 TOM HANEY: Were they mixed together, or
8 were they separated according to colors?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Separate, I believe, I
10 believe, I can't remember. She got it from
11 Christmas I think, a little bead holder.
12 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you recall who, who she
13 got that from?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know, you know, it
15 was under the tree.
16 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. Was it from you or --
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Or a group scene, I don't
18 know.
19 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. Did you purchase it?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
21 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: The little bead, beaded
23 stuff, she used to make them with that little
24 Meagan (inaudible), they have the -- it's on one
25 of these pictures. So you put them on a little
0536
1 design board and then you --
2 TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes).
3 PATSY RAMSEY: And then you put a wet paper
4 on it --
5 TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes).
6 PATSY RAMSEY: -- and iron them together.
7 That could be what that is. I can't tell. I
8 can't tell. You could be right. I can't tell.
9 TOM HANEY: Okay. And again, I think it's
10 probably a little bigger than that, especially
11 if you look at the JB2 photo, but again it's
12 kind of hard to say because it's not really good
13 focus.
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
15 TOM HANEY: Let me show you, I want to make
16 sure you know which bag that we're talking
17 about. It's picture 55. I kind of lost my
18 place.
19 PATSY RAMSEY: It's a --
20 TOM HANEY: Yeah.
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
22 TOM HANEY: You see that?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
24 TOM HANEY: 55.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
0537
1 TOM HANEY: It's a little gift --
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Gift bag, right.
3 TOM HANEY: Okay. And you don't have any
4 specific recollection about that?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
6 TOM HANEY: The reason I'm asking you about
7 it is because you had said you had been packing
8 things for Charleboy (phonetic).
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
10 TOM HANEY: Is that one of the bags you had
11 been packing for Charleboy?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't, I don't remember,
13 but I was thinking backpacking for Charleboy,
14 like the Christmas presents for Melinda and John
15 Stuart.
16 TOM HANEY: So that's not?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Shopping bags for gifts for
18 them.
19 TOM HANEY: Okay.
20 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know, JonBenet may
21 have picked that up to take it with her, of
22 course, I just don't remember.
23 TOM HANEY: Had you packed any perishables
24 in that pack? We don't know what it is --
25 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't know, I don't
0538
1 know, I, I don't remember that bag and I can't
2 tell what's in that picture.
3 TOM HANEY: Okay.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: So.
5 TOM HANEY: Well, I just wanted to check --
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
7 TOM HANEY: -- and make sure that's not
8 part of what you were taking to Charleboy.
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't recall that it was.
10 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. Something that
11 occurred to me is that you might have packed
12 snacks for --
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, right.
14 TRIP DeMUTH: And what I hear you saying is
15 that that's not what this is.
16 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't know, it doesn't
17 look like it. If I packed snacks, I would have
18 been downstairs in the kitchen somewhere --
19 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
20 PATSY RAMSEY: -- or, you know, but --
21 TRIP DeMUTH: Would perishable items be in
22 a Tupperware container up in JonBenet's room,
23 perishable food items?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Not likely.
25 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
0539
1 PATSY RAMSEY: That's what makes me think
2 it would be more likely to be the beads or
3 something.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. So do you think that
5 that's pineapple in there?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. It could be.
7 TRIP DeMUTH: Would you think that that
8 would be likely, or unlikely up in her room?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I think that would be very
10 unlikely.
11 TRIP DeMUTH: Very unlikely?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: To be pineapple.
13 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. You don't recall
14 putting pineapple in a Tupperware container and
15 putting it up in her room?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't.
17 TRIP DeMUTH: And you would be the person
18 to do that if it were done, right?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Most likely, yes.

 

[Mama2JML]

This excerpt from Patsy's '98 LE interview begins with a discussion of a photo taken of the laundry area near JB's room, I believe. I've bolded information pertinent to JB's belt, and I've underlined a portion of the dialogue that seems to indicate photograph 386 is an image depicting the belt on a bed in JonBenet's room:

15 TRIP DEMUTH: What about 384?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). Something
17 hanging over the wall up there by the laundry to dry.
18 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you recognize what they are?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks like pajamas or
20 something. It looks like Burke's pajamas.
21 TRIP DEMUTH: May be tights.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: You mean leggings or
23 something?
24 TRIP DEMUTH: Right.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Can't tell whether they are
0463
1 adult or children.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: So you can't tell from that
3 photo what they are?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
5 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. 385, which is up here.
6 PATSY RAMSEY: That is JonBenet's sweater.
7 TRIP DEMUTH: The one we saw in the bedroom?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
9 TRIP DEMUTH: Does that have that blue item
10 in the top of that photo, can you recognize it from
11 that? No.
12 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks like it is some kind
13 of a bag with a luggage tag on it or something.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you have any idea?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible).
16 TRIP DEMUTH: All right. Go back here. 386,
17 do you recognize those articles of clothing?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: This is her little velvet
19 belt.
20 TRIP DEMUTH: That is photo 386, it is the
21 article of clothing on the right of the picture. What
22 belt?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: Little Gap belt.
24 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: She would have worn to the
0464
1 White's. I can't tell where the (inaudible). The ones
2 that (inaudible). Zip up. These kind of look like a
3 plastic waist. I can't tell.
4 TRIP DEMUTH: All right.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: What is in the towel?
6 TRIP DEMUTH: Is that JonBenet's mattress
7 that goes around that?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably, yeah. Yeah, because
9 I had to fasten it (inaudible).
10 TRIP DEMUTH: I think it was taken after, so
11 you are seeing things that may have been changed.
12 (Inaudible).
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. 387 may be nothing more
15 than just miscellaneous laundry, but I want you to look
16 at it. Tell us if there is anything in there that
17 sticks out.
18 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible).
19 TRIP DEMUTH: We don't need you to identify
20 anything. I want you to look at the photo. The same
21 with -- I think it would be, let's make sure, it is
22 buried, 388. Look at it, but look at the photo.
23 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible).
24 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. 389, I believe we looked
25 at that from another angle before. Anything you want
0465
1 to add?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
3 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. 400 we've looked at
4 before, a different angle.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. That is down in the
6 basement. It is like cotton or something.
7 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you know what that is?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know why cotton would
9 be there.
10 TRIP DEMUTH: You don't recognize it?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
12 TRIP DEMUTH: It doesn't mean anything to
13 you?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

 

[questfortrue]

Could the laundry area mentioned actually be the one upstairs outside JonBenet's bedroom? I saw it mentioned once as a room, and Patsy also had a velvet jumpsuit there.

Thank you for the suggestion. Initially I’d thought of the upstairs laundry as well. The photos are numbered by the BPD and the BPD seem to have gone from area to area in the home But then Demuth refers to some cotton (photo 400) viewed from another angle, which PR had seen in another basement photo. Based on that plus the conclusion of the person who entered this info into ACR, my interpretation was that it did refer to The laundry area in the basement. These were taken after the search warrants were obtained. Iirc, the coroner had to wait outside the home in order for the search warrants to be supplied, so that would have been on the 26th. PP did her removal of items from the home on the 28th.

BPD Crime Scene Photo Discussion - Laundry area in basement ?

#384 After Search Warrants obtained -- Patsy Ramsey (6/98)

Wall by laundry, Burke's PJs? (0462-15) TRIP DEMUTH: What about 384? PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). Something hanging over the wall up there by the laundry to dry. TRIP DEMUTH: Do you recognize what they are? PATSY RAMSEY: It looks like pajamas or something. It looks like Burke's pajamas. TRIP DEMUTH: May be tights. PATSY RAMSEY: You mean leggings or something? TRIP DEMUTH: Right. PATSY RAMSEY: Can't tell whether they are adult or children.

#385 After Search Warrants obtained -- Patsy Ramsey (6/98)

JonBenet's sweater, Bag with luggage tag? (0463-05) TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. 385, which is up here. PATSY RAMSEY: That is JonBenet's sweater. TRIP DEMUTH: The one we saw in the bedroom? PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. TRIP DEMUTH: Does that have that blue item in the top of that photo, can you recognize it from that? No. PATSY RAMSEY: It looks like it is some kind of a bag with a luggage tag on it or something. TRIP DEMUTH: Do you have any idea? PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible).

#386 After Search Warrants obtained -- Patsy Ramsey (6/98)

JonBenet's Velvet Gap belt worn to the White's (0463-16) TRIP DEMUTH: All right. Go back here. 386, do you recognize those articles of clothing? PATSY RAMSEY: This is her little velvet belt. TRIP DEMUTH: That is photo 386, it is the article of clothing on the right of the picture. What belt? PATSY RAMSEY: Little Gap belt. TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. PATSY RAMSEY: She would have worn to the White's. I can't tell where the (inaudible). The ones that (inaudible). Zip up. These kind of look like a plastic waist. I can't tell. TRIP DEMUTH: All right. PATSY RAMSEY: What is in the towel? TRIP DEMUTH: Is that JonBenet's mattress that goes around that? PATSY RAMSEY: Probably, yeah. Yeah, because I had to fasten it (inaudible).

#387 After Search Warrants obtained -- Patsy Ramsey (6/98) (0464-14) TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. 387 may be nothing more than just miscellaneous laundry, but I want you to look at it. Tell us if there is anything in there that sticks out. PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible).

#388 After Search Warrants obtained -- Patsy Ramsey (6/98) (0464-19) TRIP DEMUTH: We don't need you to identify anything. I want you to look at the photo. The same with -- I think it would be, let's make sure, it is buried, 388. Look at it, but look at the photo. PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible).

#389 After Search Warrants obtained -- Patsy Ramsey (6/98) (0464-24) TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. 389, I believe we looked at that from another angle before. Anything you want to add? PATSY RAMSEY: No.

#400 After Search Warrants obtained -- Patsy Ramsey (6/98)

Cotton in basement (0465-03) TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. 400 we've looked at before, a different angle. PATSY RAMSEY: Right. That is down in the basement. It is like cotton or something. TRIP DEMUTH: Do you know what that is? PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know why cotton would be there. TRIP DEMUTH: You don't recognize it? PATSY RAMSEY: No. TRIP DEMUTH: It doesn't mean anything to you? PATSY RAMSEY: No. TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. Tom. TOM HANEY: Do you ever remember seeing it in there? PATSY RAMSEY: No.

About the suggestion that the belt was in JB's bedroom - from my review of the grouping of photos on ACR, and that the investigators were not jumping around from a photo from one room upstairs to a photo in the basement, I concluded all of these questions pertained to a discussion of basement laundry area photos. moo

 

[questfortrue]

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-crime-photos.htm

Heyya questfortrue,

0331-15) TOM HANEY: Okay. 55. PATSY RAMSEY: The (inaudible), house. These are little -- the little black shoes with the leopard or whatever skin on it. TOM HANEY: Those are on the floor inside the door? PATSY RAMSEY: I believe she wore those with her little velvet outfit.

#055, so are JBR's shoes in the basement then?

As Mama2jml commented, most likely inside the door of JB's bedroom, but it's not totally clear that was the door they were referring to. Just a guess. The photos discussed in this section pertained to the upstairs 'kitchen', counter top with cabinets and to the upstairs laundry area and spiral stair area(2nd floor, where the kids bedrooms were.)

 

[DeeDee249]

I think Patsy is actually saying "ELASTIC waist" and not "plastic waist". This might imply the pants with an elastic waist do not need a belt. The black velvet pants were described by Patsy as being velvet jeans, which suggest belt loops.

 

[borndem]

I agree those velvet pants would have picked up everything from anywhere.
Just like the dusty feet. All we ever heard were dusty feet.
We never have enough evidence to finish any thought and believe it is true..

Maybe the belt was used as the dog leash that JB was so fond of playing. Who knows.

bbm

I've wondered all along if the "garrote," since it was similar to a choke-leash for training a dog, could have originated as a leash for a "doggie" in some pretend game that JB & BR could have played? Were they playing on the 26th and something went wrong? Could JB have played a puppy while BR was the master? That would mean the choke came first, and I don't think that was the order of events. Just thinking "out loud."

 

[SwampMama]

bbm

I've wondered all along if the "garrote," since it was similar to a choke-leash for training a dog, could have originated as a leash for a "doggie" in some pretend game that JB & BR could have played? Were they playing on the 26th and something went wrong? Could JB have played a puppy while BR was the master? That would mean the choke came first, and I don't think that was the order of events. Just thinking "out loud."

Very interesting thought. I remember when i was in first grade, the boys next door and I were playing and they decided to play cowboys and they "hung" me. They put a rope on my neck, threw it over the swing set and pulled and left a huge brush burn/rope mark on my neck but luckily they were caught before they seriously injured me or killed me. They were just dumb kids playing though.

If BDI then he very well could have done such a thing, just had it around her neck to control her and then have hit her with the flashlight and then she was killed. i always wondered if he lured her down there by promising her something, like a secret gift or something else he knew she couldn't resist.

 

[Sandstorm]

I cannot resolve this part of the night's scenario - can someone please help:

Once JBR received the head bash, she was knocked out but there were no signs of scalp injury or bleeding, so WHY did the perp proceed to murder her by strangleing her?
How come she was not taken to the ER?

I just dont get this at all, esp if it was PR who administered the head blow.
A mother's natural reaction would be to rush their child to the hospital.

Now, if BR was the perp then he could have proceeded to strangle her as part of his 'game' or whatever he was doing. But if it was PR and JR who found them in this predicament with JBR knocked out from the head blow - why not take JBR to the ER?

Thanks for your ideas on this - sorry if this is elemtary, but it has been bugging me for a very long time.

 

[gramcracker]

I cannot resolve this part of the night's scenario - can someone please help:

Once JBR received the head bash, she was knocked out but there were no signs of scalp injury or bleeding, so WHY did the perp proceed to murder her by strangleing her?
How come she was not taken to the ER?

I just dont get this at all, esp if it was PR who administered the head blow.
A mother's natural reaction would be to rush their child to the hospital.

Now, if BR was the perp then he could have proceeded to strangle her as part of his 'game' or whatever he was doing. But if it was PR and JR who found them in this predicament with JBR knocked out from the head blow - why not take JBR to the ER?

Thanks for your ideas on this - sorry if this is elemtary, but it has been bugging me for a very long time.

IMO: it's often difficult even for those with medical training to assess the cause(s) when someone is unconscious and unresponsive/non-responsive. the head injury was not visible but perhaps there was knowledge of a hard blow/impact: someone witnessed/caused the blow (or knew/suspected who did it)

with or without such knowledge it must have been frightening beyond belief that JB was unconscious and couldn't be aroused. in addition to being unconscious, perhaps her clothing below the waist was in disarray/removed

panic ensued

 

[txsvicki]

It bugs me, too. There's no reason to have strangled. Any scrapes or bruises could have been blamed on the kidnapper. The only thing I can come up with is that it might fit with the theme of terroristic kidnappers who threatened a brutal death. Patsy did other things to JonBenet's body as part of pageant themes, so maybe she did to her in some crazy dramatic death theme. The only thing is, it sure didn't take long to plot it all out if the head injury was accidental.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I cannot resolve this part of the night's scenario - can someone please help:

Once JBR received the head bash, she was knocked out but there were no signs of scalp injury or bleeding, so WHY did the perp proceed to murder her by strangleing her?
How come she was not taken to the ER?

I just dont get this at all, esp if it was PR who administered the head blow.
A mother's natural reaction would be to rush their child to the hospital.

Now, if BR was the perp then he could have proceeded to strangle her as part of his 'game' or whatever he was doing. ]But if it was PR and JR who found them in this predicament with JBR knocked out from the head blow - why not take JBR to the ER?

Thanks for your ideas on this - sorry if this is elemtary, but it has been bugging me for a very long time.

Could be for any number of reasons, but I'm guessing the primary reason is because they needed to hide the evidence of sexual assault.

 

[UKGuy]

I cannot resolve this part of the night's scenario - can someone please help:

Once JBR received the head bash, she was knocked out but there were no signs of scalp injury or bleeding, so WHY did the perp proceed to murder her by strangleing her?
How come she was not taken to the ER?

I just dont get this at all, esp if it was PR who administered the head blow.
A mother's natural reaction would be to rush their child to the hospital.

Now, if BR was the perp then he could have proceeded to strangle her as part of his 'game' or whatever he was doing. But if it was PR and JR who found them in this predicament with JBR knocked out from the head blow - why not take JBR to the ER?

Thanks for your ideas on this - sorry if this is elemtary, but it has been bugging me for a very long time.

Sandstorm,
There are two parts to any RDI theory, one that explains her sexual assault and associated injuries, and another which explains the staging.

Whacking JonBenet on the head was meant to kill her and offer an explanation for her death. Except it failed, she was still breathing and there was no obvious injury evident to the naked eye, so to explain her current condition.

So the person who whacked JonBenet on the head, thought about this for a while, then decided to ligature asphyxiate her. This accomplished, she was cleaned up, redressed and moved down to the basement, where say PR applied the paintbrush handle?

Does it matter if it all happened up in her bedroom or a combination of the latter and the basement?

I think not. Since we have three events some of which are staging and we know they took place in a particular sequence. e.g. JonBenet's size-12's are, according to the Autopsy Report: urine stained ... and the inner aspect of the crotch ... has several red areas of staining, suggesting these were placed on her prior to her being ligature asphyxiated?

How come she was not taken to the ER?

Taking JonBenet to ER would require an immediate explanation for her internal injuries and the likely arrest of JR and PR on the spot.

JonBenet's fake crime-scene is intended to hide her sexual assault from immediate view, and mask what originally caused her to become unconcious, this was the rationale behind the Ransom Note, which explains why she was moved from upstairs to downstairs, i.e. IDI.

.

 

[txsvicki]

If JonBenet had gone to the hospital, they probably wouldn't believe a child hit her, even if it was true. Especially with previous vaginal damage. If an adult jabbed JonBenet, he/she must have thought it would cover up the previously damaged hymen, but little thought given to the chronic signs that had apparently been going on a couple of years.