Why BOTH Garrote & Head Bash?

[Linda7NJ]

I was reading back through Blue Crabs old posts. The whole position of her body at the time of discovery, as told by John, is troubling.

He describes it differently. His stories are not consistent. Leading credibility to the theory she was discovered earlier by John.

One version... He was supporting her head because it was floppy and her arms were ABove and Behind her head... )He cut her down) and he didn't see the rope around her neck,
In another she was laying flat wrapped up like a papoose.

In another he can't recall if her arms and feet were covered or not.

I can't imagine that image ever leaving your mind. Would be forever seared. But John seems to confuse the way he originally found her with the way he left her the first time.

(Fleets testimony about the chair) bolsters this as well. IMO


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[DeeDee249]

I was reading back through Blue Crabs old posts. The whole position of her body at the time of discovery, as told by John, is troubling.

He describes it differently. His stories are not consistent. Leading credibility to the theory she was discovered earlier by John.

One version... He was supporting her head because it was floppy and her arms were ABove and Behind her head... )He cut her down) and he didn't see the rope around her neck,
In another she was laying flat wrapped up like a papoose.

In another he can't recall if her arms and feet were covered or not.

I can't imagine that image ever leaving your mind. Would be forever seared. But John seems to confuse the way he originally found her with the way he left her the first time.

(Fleets testimony about the chair) bolsters this as well. IMO


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Well we already know some things as FACT- she was't cut down because the livor patterns indicate she was on her back within a few moments of death. Had she been cut down by JR when found, there would be a livor patter showing blood settling only in the lower half of her body. There would be none on her back, or the right side of her face and it is FACT that there were.
Nothing about her body was "floppy". She was in full rigor- FACT. Det Arndt observed her stiff body as being carried upright (like a mannequin) and stated her arms up with no support. She knew immediately JB was dead and had been for quite a while.
I have to add that one person knows exactly how she was found and what JR did when he "found" her - FW. He has never spoken publicly about what he saw JR do or the exact state of the body, but he was just steps behind JR and had to have seen it all. I would hope he told LE what he observed. He also reported he touched her foot, which he said was ice cold, so we have our answer as to whether her feet were covered or not.

 

[chlban]

QUOTE=MyBelle;10387239]He didn't move on, did he? Seems to me he stayed with Patsy and assisted in contaminating the crime scene. I don't see any parent doing that unless they were involved in the crime.[/QUOTE]

No, but none of us really know why that is. It seems to me that, even for crazy Patsy, thinking "I will l his daughter and then he will never leave me" is a bit of a stretch as a strategy to hold onto him.

And I can see a scenario in which a parent would assist in contaminating the scene. If the parent's other child was the killer. Or if said parent believed that the other child was the killer whether he actually was or not.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well we already know some things as FACT- she was't cut down because the livor patterns indicate she was on her back within a few moments of death. Had she been cut down by JR when found, there would be a livor patter showing blood settling only in the lower half of her body. There would be none on her back, or the right side of her face and it is FACT that there were.
Nothing about her body was "floppy". She was in full rigor- FACT. Det Arndt observed her stiff body as being carried upright (like a mannequin) and stated her arms up with no support. She knew immediately JB was dead and had been for quite a while.
I have to add that one person knows exactly how she was found and what JR did when he "found" her - FW. He has never spoken publicly about what he saw JR do or the exact state of the body, but he was just steps behind JR and had to have seen it all. I would hope he told LE what he observed. He also reported he touched her foot, which he said was ice cold, so we have our answer as to whether her feet were covered or not.

I was looking at the autopsy photos yesterday and specificity the photo of the top half of her back... I saw no Livor mortis.
In one of johns description he says her head was to the side. I have been search for a photo of the other side of her face...unsuccessfully.

When I was re reading the transcripts I was stunned to read so many conflicting statements. One thing I'm absolutely certain of...LIES were told by John Ramsey specifically about how her body was found.

When I have the time I'd like to re read them ALL again, side by side with the autopsy photos and report.


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[Linda7NJ]

Oh I forgot... The floppy head thing...
I was using that because John said it...and IMO kinda proves he found her the first time much much earlier than he later claims because she was in full rigor when he carried her up the stairs.

If she were on her back... How could he have possibly missed the rope around her neck?

IMO he mixed up what she looked like at the different times he was with her body.




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[gramcracker]

ITA. very similar to PR mixing up when/how she saw/heard about the red heart. those are such subtle "tells" that seem so obvious to me

 

[MyBelle]

Well we already know some things as FACT- she was't cut down because the livor patterns indicate she was on her back within a few moments of death. Had she been cut down by JR when found, there would be a livor patter showing blood settling only in the lower half of her body. There would be none on her back, or the right side of her face and it is FACT that there were.
Nothing about her body was "floppy". She was in full rigor- FACT. Det Arndt observed her stiff body as being carried upright (like a mannequin) and stated her arms up with no support. She knew immediately JB was dead and had been for quite a while.
I have to add that one person knows exactly how she was found and what JR did when he "found" her - FW. He has never spoken publicly about what he saw JR do or the exact state of the body, but he was just steps behind JR and had to have seen it all. I would hope he told LE what he observed. He also reported he touched her foot, which he said was ice cold, so we have our answer as to whether her feet were covered or not.

Didn't FW testify at the Grand Jury? Maybe that is why he hasn't spoken publicly....

 

[MyBelle]

[/I][/QUOTE]No, but none of us really know why that is. It seems to me that, even for crazy Patsy, thinking "I will l his daughter and then he will never leave me" is a bit of a stretch as a strategy to hold onto him.

And I can see a scenario in which a parent would assist in contaminating the scene. If the parent's other child was the killer. Or if said parent believed that the other child was the killer whether he actually was or not.[/QUOTE]

Sorry but I don't buy the theory JR contaminated the crime scene because he thought his son was guilty. No parent is going to immediately leap to the conclusion that their 9-year-old was involved. JR did it because he knew the parents are always looked at by cops. He was CEO of a company and had his own image to protect.

 

[DeDee]

Do you think Patsy was sexually assaulting her daughter?
My opinion is, if Patsy was sexually attracted to her daughter, assaulting her, she would do it in a manner much more consistent of the way females have sex with each other (if I may be euphemistic).
Penetration seems more like a male thing.

Many females enjoy finger penetration. JBRs hymen was eroded significantly enough to be noted on her AR.

Patsy molested her daughter and most likely touched her son at some point in his younger life.

This is important: Usually, a mother who molests her child is not doing it for sexual self-gratification.

OMO

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

This is important: Usually, a mother who molests her child is not doing it for sexual self-gratification.

OMO

Bingo!

 

[DeDee]

I was reading back through Blue Crabs old posts. The whole position of her body at the time of discovery, as told by John, is troubling.

He describes it differently. His stories are not consistent. Leading credibility to the theory she was discovered earlier by John.

One version... He was supporting her head because it was floppy and her arms were ABove and Behind her head... )He cut her down) and he didn't see the rope around her neck,
In another she was laying flat wrapped up like a papoose.

In another he can't recall if her arms and feet were covered or not.

I can't imagine that image ever leaving your mind. Would be forever seared. But John seems to confuse the way he originally found her with the way he left her the first time.

(Fleets testimony about the chair) bolsters this as well. IMO


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Everyone should take an evening and read thru BlueCrab's interesting posts here and at other sites. At one point, it was rumored, never proven, that BlueCrab was an insider.


I think many concede that JR went to the basement around 11:00am and discovered JonBenet's body. She may have had her hands tied onto something over her head and JR released them at 11. Two (2) people [mis]stated she was cut down. John Walsh was one. In a court of law, Stewart, Melinda's finance' at the time, now husband, would testify that indeed he informed the police of JRs statement of finding JonBenet at 11:00. Stewart married Melinda anyway.

Abandon yourself, if you will, and pretend to be John for a sec. The police lady told you to go search the house for your lost/kidnapped child and/or for any signs of things out of place. Don't touch anything.

Pretend you head downstairs [her bdrm is cordoned off] to the basement with FW on your heels.

You stop by the blue Samsonite luggage and pretend to be interested in the broken glass and window for about 30 seconds.

Exit the room. Reach up and unlatch the lock on the WC door to the concrete room in the hellhole. FW is still interested in the window and broken glass until he hears the scream: I found her!

Now see JR kneel beside his [dead] child who is wrapped in a white blanket. Lift her and scream while carrying her, running down the hallway, up the stairs to show Patsy what [she] had done. His entire life changed on a dime. His second daughter had died.

But, Det. Linda Arndt stopped John from carrying his baby girl any further across the room without placing JBRs body on the floor.

Frankly, I may become instantly paralyzed by grief if my child were found raped and brutally murdered in my home. On Christmas night. Or anytime. Day or night.

But Patsy, literally, sat down, took out a Sharpie and wrote a RN after the violent death of her daughter? AYKM? She wrote a RN and risked prison to protect her 9yo son? AYKM?

IMHO, PR had that RN written inside the pad for days before the pad was given to the police unwittingly by JR on the 26th. "It's an inside job."

But, wait. Surely, almost everyone knows the youngest R son did it so no charges were ever filed by the lax DAs office even in response to the true bills returned by the GJ. hdear:


I would so much enjoy the link to FWs testimony, all of it, any of it and esp. as it pertains to the chair. TIA

(Fleets testimony about the chair) bolsters this as well.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Everyone should take an evening and read thru BlueCrab's interesting posts here and at other sites. At one point, it was rumored, never proven, that BlueCrab was an insider.





I think many concede that JR went to the basement around 11:00am and discovered JonBenet's body. She may have had her hands tied onto something over her head and JR released them at 11. Two (2) people [mis]stated she was cut down. John Walsh was one. In a court of law, Stewart, Melinda's finance' at the time, now husband, would testify that indeed he informed the police of JRs statement of finding JonBenet at 11:00. Stewart married Melinda anyway.



Abandon yourself, if you will, and pretend to be John for a sec. The police lady told you to go search the house for your lost/kidnapped child and/or for any signs of things out of place. Don't touch anything.



Pretend you head downstairs [her bdrm is cordoned off] to the basement with FW on your heels.



You stop by the blue Samsonite luggage and pretend to be interested in the broken glass and window for about 30 seconds.



Exit the room. Reach up and unlatch the lock on the WC door to the concrete room in the hellhole. FW is still interested in the window and broken glass until he hears the scream: I found her!



Now see JR kneel beside his [dead] child who is wrapped in a white blanket. Lift her and scream while carrying her, running down the hallway, up the stairs to show Patsy what [she] had done. His entire life changed on a dime. His second daughter had died.



But, Det. Linda Arndt stopped John from carrying his baby girl any further across the room without placing JBRs body on the floor.



Frankly, I may become instantly paralyzed by grief if my child were found raped and brutally murdered in my home. On Christmas night. Or anytime. Day or night.



But Patsy, literally, sat down, took out a Sharpie and wrote a RN after the violent death of her daughter? AYKM? She wrote a RN and risked prison to protect her 9yo son? AYKM?



IMHO, PR had that RN written inside the pad for days before the pad was given to the police unwittingly by JR on the 26th. "It's an inside job."



But, wait. Surely, almost everyone knows the youngest R son did it so no charges were ever filed by the lax DAs office even in response to the true bills returned by the GJ. hdear:





I would so much enjoy the link to FWs testimony, all of it, any of it and esp. as it pertains to the chair. TIA

I've tracked down the name of the person BlueCrab alluded to here on WS but wouldn't divulge. It wasn't the son of a close friend.

His initials are NI & he was a student at University of Colorado, who used to live with the Stines when he was studying in Boulder.




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[Linda7NJ]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17327"]Ramsey Friend, Member of "Small Foreign Faction", Was Never Investigated - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

A must read.


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[DeDee]

Blue Bottle 01,
This PDI along with another that describes PR as mentally ill, projecting herself onto objects, i.e. JonBenet, in the real world, makes a lot of sense.

Yet both fail to explain why JR behaves in such a consistent and complicit manner.

JR even wishes to attend some business appointment later that afternoon, leaving his dead daughter behind in Boulder, as he flies off interstate, not to mention the possibility he might have abandonded BR?

There are simply far too many inconsistencies in either a PDI or that of a JDI, e.g. Paty's explanation for the size-12's, yet none were found in the location she cited.

.

Not BlueBottle, but if you won't mind, I will stumble out a response to one point since I was once a strong IDI, due to natural forces of parental innocence and became a PDI in the past seven+ years.

Of course, you are familiar with the Fight or Flight Response Syndrome? JR was attempting to run away from any perceived danger and utter fear. Do you think he was planning to take Patsy with him? H, no. Burke? H, no. He was running to a place of refuge for himself. Why he felt so threatened when his second daughter died has always intrigued me.

This acute reaction to perceived, real, or imaginary, danger is what I believe happened to John Ramsey when faced with absolute and sudden horror the day after Christmas. JR had PTSD from Beth's death 4 yrs earlier. With JonBenet's death, resulted in compounded PTSD.

Furthermore, I believe that PR also suffered from chronic PTSD [from cancer, its treatment and likely death sentence in '96]. I have never seen proof that PPR suffered sex abuse as a child unless in the form of having a narcissistic mother.


"The fight-or-flight response, also known as the acute stress response, refers to a physiological reaction that occurs in the presence of something that is terrifying, either mentally or physically."

http://psychology.about.com/od/findex/g/fight-or-flight-response.htm

The pituitary gland (a major endocrine gland) secretes the hormone ACTH (adrenocorticotropic hormone). ACTH moves through the bloodstream and ultimately arrives at the adrenal cortex, where it activates the release of approximately 30 different hormones that get the body prepared to deal with a threat.

The sudden flood of epinephrine, norepinephrine and dozens of other hormones causes changes in the body that include:
<snip>

*All of these physical responses are intended to help you survive a dangerous situation by preparing you to either run for your life or fight for your life...

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/fear2.htm

"When our fight or flight system is activated, we tend to perceive everything in our environment as a possible threat to our survival. By its very nature, the fight or flight system bypasses our rational mind—where our more well thought out beliefs exist—and moves us into "attack" mode. This state of alert causes us to perceive almost everything in our world as a possible threat to our survival. <snip> Our fear is exaggerated. Our thinking is distorted. We see everything through the filter of possible danger. We narrow our focus to those things that can harm us. Fear becomes the lens through which we see the world.

<snip> Our consciousness is focused on fear, not love. Making clear choices and recognizing the consequences of those choices is unfeasible. We are focused on short-term survival, not the long-term consequences of our beliefs and choices. When we are overwhelmed with excessive stress, our life becomes a series of short-term emergencies. We lose the ability to relax and enjoy the moment. We live from crisis to crisis..."

http://www.thebodysoulconnection.com/EducationCenter/fight.html

PRs past, her childhood and possibly some adult episodes, show sad signs of prior abuse and self entitlement. I think JR verbally belittled PR at home. I don't think a healthy sexual relationship existed between them and prob had not since mid '94.

ATT, for me, the acute sexual injuries and past digital exposure, were caused by Patsy touching her daughter inappropriately. And not for any special sexual gratification from it. It was more of curiosity and possibly revenge or a form of punishment...for wetting the bed, perhaps. Perhaps a combination of all things JonBenet.

JR: The Little Firecracker! The Little Sparkplug!

PR: She was a performer from the word "Go"!

OMO

 

[otg]

(sbm)

Well we already know some things as FACT- she was't cut down because the livor patterns indicate she was on her back within a few moments of death. Had she been cut down by JR when found, there would be a livor patter showing blood settling only in the lower half of her body. There would be none on her back, or the right side of her face and it is FACT that there were.

Not exactly. Lividity begins within 20-30 minutes and continues to develop over several hours. The blood isn't completely congealed until 4-6 hours later. From http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/rigor-mortis-and-lividity.html

It is worth noting that lividity begins to work through the deceased within thirty minutes of their heart stopping and can last up to twelve hours. Only up to the first six hours of death can lividity be altered by moving the body. After the six hour mark lividity is fixed as blood vessels begin to break down within the body.
​

 

[otg]

I was looking at the autopsy photos yesterday and specificity the photo of the top half of her back... I saw no Livor mortis.
In one of johns description he says her head was to the side. I have been search for a photo of the other side of her face...unsuccessfully.

When I was re reading the transcripts I was stunned to read so many conflicting statements. One thing I'm absolutely certain of...LIES were told by John Ramsey specifically about how her body was found.

When I have the time I'd like to re read them ALL again, side by side with the autopsy photos and report.


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Linda, I don't want to post the picture, but I'm sure you can find it. Look at the one showing the two (alleged) stun-gun marks on her back with an ABFO forensic scale. In it, you can see the three white lines at her waist left in the lividity, presumably from the elastic in her clothes and maybe a crease (?) in her waist. You can also see how the color fades away toward the left side of her body.

Photo Link: Substitute the "ACR": www.ACR.com/jonbenetbackmarks.jpg

 

[Linda7NJ]

Everyone should take an evening and read thru BlueCrab's interesting posts here and at other sites. At one point, it was rumored, never proven, that BlueCrab was an insider.





I think many concede that JR went to the basement around 11:00am and discovered JonBenet's body. She may have had her hands tied onto something over her head and JR released them at 11. Two (2) people [mis]stated she was cut down. John Walsh was one. In a court of law, Stewart, Melinda's finance' at the time, now husband, would testify that indeed he informed the police of JRs statement of finding JonBenet at 11:00. Stewart married Melinda anyway.



Abandon yourself, if you will, and pretend to be John for a sec. The police lady told you to go search the house for your lost/kidnapped child and/or for any signs of things out of place. Don't touch anything.



Pretend you head downstairs [her bdrm is cordoned off] to the basement with FW on your heels.



You stop by the blue Samsonite luggage and pretend to be interested in the broken glass and window for about 30 seconds.



Exit the room. Reach up and unlatch the lock on the WC door to the concrete room in the hellhole. FW is still interested in the window and broken glass until he hears the scream: I found her!



Now see JR kneel beside his [dead] child who is wrapped in a white blanket. Lift her and scream while carrying her, running down the hallway, up the stairs to show Patsy what [she] had done. His entire life changed on a dime. His second daughter had died.



But, Det. Linda Arndt stopped John from carrying his baby girl any further across the room without placing JBRs body on the floor.



Frankly, I may become instantly paralyzed by grief if my child were found raped and brutally murdered in my home. On Christmas night. Or anytime. Day or night.



But Patsy, literally, sat down, took out a Sharpie and wrote a RN after the violent death of her daughter? AYKM? She wrote a RN and risked prison to protect her 9yo son? AYKM?



IMHO, PR had that RN written inside the pad for days before the pad was given to the police unwittingly by JR on the 26th. "It's an inside job."



But, wait. Surely, almost everyone knows the youngest R son did it so no charges were ever filed by the lax DAs office even in response to the true bills returned by the GJ. hdear:





I would so much enjoy the link to FWs testimony, all of it, any of it and esp. as it pertains to the chair. TIA

I'm beginning to think he was with the body @ 3 different times. Earlier than 11am ( during the night), the 11am trip, and the final discovery time.


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[Linda7NJ]

Everyone should take an evening and read thru BlueCrab's interesting posts here and at other sites. At one point, it was rumored, never proven, that BlueCrab was an insider.





I think many concede that JR went to the basement around 11:00am and discovered JonBenet's body. She may have had her hands tied onto something over her head and JR released them at 11. Two (2) people [mis]stated she was cut down. John Walsh was one. In a court of law, Stewart, Melinda's finance' at the time, now husband, would testify that indeed he informed the police of JRs statement of finding JonBenet at 11:00. Stewart married Melinda anyway.



Abandon yourself, if you will, and pretend to be John for a sec. The police lady told you to go search the house for your lost/kidnapped child and/or for any signs of things out of place. Don't touch anything.



Pretend you head downstairs [her bdrm is cordoned off] to the basement with FW on your heels.



You stop by the blue Samsonite luggage and pretend to be interested in the broken glass and window for about 30 seconds.



Exit the room. Reach up and unlatch the lock on the WC door to the concrete room in the hellhole. FW is still interested in the window and broken glass until he hears the scream: I found her!



Now see JR kneel beside his [dead] child who is wrapped in a white blanket. Lift her and scream while carrying her, running down the hallway, up the stairs to show Patsy what [she] had done. His entire life changed on a dime. His second daughter had died.



But, Det. Linda Arndt stopped John from carrying his baby girl any further across the room without placing JBRs body on the floor.



Frankly, I may become instantly paralyzed by grief if my child were found raped and brutally murdered in my home. On Christmas night. Or anytime. Day or night.



But Patsy, literally, sat down, took out a Sharpie and wrote a RN after the violent death of her daughter? AYKM? She wrote a RN and risked prison to protect her 9yo son? AYKM?



IMHO, PR had that RN written inside the pad for days before the pad was given to the police unwittingly by JR on the 26th. "It's an inside job."



But, wait. Surely, almost everyone knows the youngest R son did it so no charges were ever filed by the lax DAs office even in response to the true bills returned by the GJ. hdear:





I would so much enjoy the link to FWs testimony, all of it, any of it and esp. as it pertains to the chair. TIA

The chair....

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682512/The Basement#ChairBlockingDoor

More on the chair

[ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=60257&postcount=9"]Forums For Justice - View Single Post - THE TRUTH About Judge Carnes' Decision - A Documented Rebuttal[/ame]

Lou Smit: "So you think that the chair would block the door and nobody would have gotten in there without moving it?"

John Ramsey: “Correct.”

Lou Smit: "In other words, let's say that the intruder goes into the train room, gets out, let's say, that window?”

John Ramsey: “Uh huh.

Lou Smit: "How in effect would he get that chair to block that door, if that is the case, is what I'm saying?"

John Ramsey: "I don't know... I go down, I say, "Ooh, that door is blocked." I move the chair and went in the room."

Lou Smit: So you couldn’t have gotten in without moving the chair?”

John Ramsey: "Correct... I had to move the chair."

Lou Smit: "The thing I'm trying to figure out in my mind then is, if an intruder went through the door, he'd almost have to pull the chair behind him... because that would have been his exit... so that's not very logical as far as......"

John Ramsey: "I think it is. I mean if this person is that bizarrely clever to have not left any good evidence, but left all these little funny clues around, they... are clever enough to pull the chair back when they left."


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[Anyhoo]

Everyone should take an evening and read thru BlueCrab's interesting posts here and at other sites. At one point, it was rumored, never proven, that BlueCrab was an insider.


I think many concede that JR went to the basement around 11:00am and discovered JonBenet's body. She may have had her hands tied onto something over her head and JR released them at 11. Two (2) people [mis]stated she was cut down. John Walsh was one. In a court of law, Stewart, Melinda's finance' at the time, now husband, would testify that indeed he informed the police of JRs statement of finding JonBenet at 11:00. Stewart married Melinda anyway.

Abandon yourself, if you will, and pretend to be John for a sec. The police lady told you to go search the house for your lost/kidnapped child and/or for any signs of things out of place. Don't touch anything.

Pretend you head downstairs [her bdrm is cordoned off] to the basement with FW on your heels.

You stop by the blue Samsonite luggage and pretend to be interested in the broken glass and window for about 30 seconds.

Exit the room. Reach up and unlatch the lock on the WC door to the concrete room in the hellhole. FW is still interested in the window and broken glass until he hears the scream: I found her!

Now see JR kneel beside his [dead] child who is wrapped in a white blanket. Lift her and scream while carrying her, running down the hallway, up the stairs to show Patsy what [she] had done. His entire life changed on a dime. His second daughter had died.

But, Det. Linda Arndt stopped John from carrying his baby girl any further across the room without placing JBRs body on the floor.

Frankly, I may become instantly paralyzed by grief if my child were found raped and brutally murdered in my home. On Christmas night. Or anytime. Day or night.

But Patsy, literally, sat down, took out a Sharpie and wrote a RN after the violent death of her daughter? AYKM? She wrote a RN and risked prison to protect her 9yo son? AYKM?

IMHO, PR had that RN written inside the pad for days before the pad was given to the police unwittingly by JR on the 26th. "It's an inside job."

But, wait. Surely, almost everyone knows the youngest R son did it so no charges were ever filed by the lax DAs office even in response to the true bills returned by the GJ. hdear:


I would so much enjoy the link to FWs testimony, all of it, any of it and esp. as it pertains to the chair. TIA

I do not agree with this scenario. IMO JR knew about the body before he supposedly discovered it. He knew about the body before the 911 call. He was not uninvolved in the murder. You and others keep wanting to pin this all on PR and give JR a skate. I 100% disagree with that. Said for the hundredth time.

 

[MyBelle]

The chair....

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682512/The Basement#ChairBlockingDoor

More on the chair

Forums For Justice - View Single Post - THE TRUTH About Judge Carnes' Decision - A Documented Rebuttal

Lou Smit: "So you think that the chair would block the door and nobody would have gotten in there without moving it?"

John Ramsey: &#8220;Correct.&#8221;

Lou Smit: "In other words, let's say that the intruder goes into the train room, gets out, let's say, that window?&#8221;

John Ramsey: &#8220;Uh huh.

Lou Smit: "How in effect would he get that chair to block that door, if that is the case, is what I'm saying?"

John Ramsey: "I don't know... I go down, I say, "Ooh, that door is blocked." I move the chair and went in the room."

Lou Smit: So you couldn&#8217;t have gotten in without moving the chair?&#8221;

John Ramsey: "Correct... I had to move the chair."

Lou Smit: "The thing I'm trying to figure out in my mind then is, if an intruder went through the door, he'd almost have to pull the chair behind him... because that would have been his exit... so that's not very logical as far as......"

John Ramsey: "I think it is. I mean if this person is that bizarrely clever to have not left any good evidence, but left all these little funny clues around, they... are clever enough to pull the chair back when they left."


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BBM. JR does make a very good point. I doubt he would have said this if he was the one who was clever enough to pull the chair back. If he was the one who planned the staging, I think he would have stuck to the intruder came in the window theory and not mentioned the chair.