Why doesn't anyone think it could've been John.

[UKGuy]

I might be misremembering, but I seem to recall that in Atlanta they were interviewed by LE. A question was poised about J and P's medication. When asked of them who was the prescribing physician, I believe John says it's Burk's shrink. MOO

GoBuckeyes,
There is nothing in the Atlanta interviews regarding medication being prescribed by Burke's shrink.

In another interview , e.g.

1998 BPD Patsy Interview excerpt

23 TOM HANEY: Talk to him about

24 questions or anything?

25 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-uh.

0125

1 TOM HANEY: What did you tell him

2 prior to?

3 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, he had been

4 going to see his -- he has a therapist, a child

5 therapist, and I just, I wanted at make sure

6 that we take care of our mental health, all of

7 us, during this, because particularly for him,

8 you now when he's 40 to have repercussions of

9 all this. So he had been in therapy, and, then

10 we knew ahead, before Burke did, that it was

11 going to be okay to have the interviews with --

12 fellows were going to come to Atlanta, and it

13 was going to be kind of a kid friendly

14 environment and all that.

Patsy appears to be saying Burke was in therapy after JonBenet's death.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

The biggest issue is the link of Patsy to the Ransom note, the handwriting samples, the RN analysis. It's hard to say that the chemo diminished Patsy's strength and she was frail. Patsy was diagnosed on July 4th 1993. Her final chemo treatment was somewhere in the ballpark of March 1994. She had 1.5 years to recover. If the swing was done right, Patsy could have caused the injury.

The biggest JDI advocate out there is DocG. Solving the JonBenet Ramsey Case Some people here will tell you how wrong DocG is because he vigorously defends his theory and ignores some evidence. That's true. For me, I believe DocG only went so far on the case, decided he had it and stopped asking questions. Case solved. That's it. The end.

John's motive is always sexual. He's not portrayed as a pedophile who seeks out children, but as a sexual situational aggressor. Basically, if Patsy isn't available, he'll turn to his daughter if they're in the right place and time. In this theory, John knows he'll be exposed so in a moment of panic, he kills his daughter. He's 52 at this time in his life, has money, and can seek out call girls for his sexual needs if he's so inclined so turning to his daughter makes him infinitely worse if he did such a thing.

JDI is a valid theory. It's every bit as valid as PDI. I'm not in the BDI camp not because I don't think Burke could have done it, but because James Kolar's most compelling piece of evidence, the train track, is wrong. It's like Lou Smit and the stun gun--easily debunked.

Please explain how the train track can blow the whole theory? Cant he still be correct even if it wasn't a train track but some other item in the basement?

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

From the U.S. Department of Justice: https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/193411.pdf (page 3) in 1997, there were less than ten homicides by children 10 and under.

How many gravely or serious injuries were caused by a sibling who didn't die?

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

I th

Time constraints. We need to ask ourselves why it was Patsy who was put to in the forefront whilst JR cleaned himself up. Who's going to be the object of closer scrutiny, whoever found the note and made the 911 call or old mate who was in the shower?



Why would JR need to be flushed or forensic evidence if he was only staging? Why wouldn't PR shower if she did any more than staging which can be argued away as circumstantial. "I live in the house, I was in there the morning before wrapping and moving Christmas presents, I may have been wearing the same jacket". Why the need to eliminate JR from the picture, minus those pesky fibres in JBRs crotch and not PR?


Side note, why was PR thrust into the scrutiny but JR was always carefully distanced. There is little pointing to him in forensics but with LE focussing on PR he can then worry about covering her behind instead of his own, a lot less in the stakes department for him.

I think they were wise enough to do some staging and crime scene disturbing but they were not professional csi. They also had the advantage of legitimately having their touch DNA everywhere.
Even in her private area. She was still being wiped by her parents.
There is no proof JR was inappropriate with a child. Look at his wives, and his one time GF Beth Holloway. I see a man who likes attractive women. PR would not have coved for him. He was gone often. There are more things, I feel that point away than to him. Statistics are the only thing that point to him. There were 2 other males in the home that had opportunity BR and JAR.
I had a 5 year old neighbor who was inappropriately touching children. He most likely was abused himself but where? You can't automatically blame parents. A lot of abuse happens with other trusted adults like church, Cub Scouts, relatives.
People need to broaden their thinking as to possibilities within the family IMHO.
If the parents were aware of the abuse by a sibling, they knew JR would be the first person suspected.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

Your question has been well addressed, I will just add what, for me, excludes John more than anything is the ransom note. Patsy wrote it, and It was the second biggest mistake they made (first being leaving the body in the home). The letter was completely absurd and I don't believe John would have written it or even allowed it to be left there if he was involved. In fact I believe the RN was what caused the lights to come on with John. He realized Patsy had written it and the picture started coming together then.

John Ramsey was a CEO . A corporate executive who probably wrote some serious correspondence in his career. This was not his note authoring.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

Thats why there are multiple strangle marks. Found out she was alive, took off noose but too late. Strangled again to cover up the cover up.

PR on finding her daughter tightly restrained, unconscious tries to untie her as every parent on earth would do only to realize she is dead. I don't believe the scene was staged. I believe the scene was cleaned up.

"Don't try to grow a brain John" - One parent was not on board for covering up initially....

 

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[InadequateAttaché]

Gross post

Do you have a job? You spend a lot of time posting here. I hope that my tax dollars haven't been paying your wages.

I'm retired so my time is my own.

 

[Kell1]

Sadly this case was most likely mishandled somewhere above the police level, in most other cities I feel this case, would've been solved within a few weeks.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

I am so sorry for your loss!

The difference would be if there was a history of BR being aggressive or being inappropriate with his sister. It then would be the first thing that came to mind

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

GoBuckeyes,
JR:
6 LOU SMIT: Okay. Are you under, taking any

7 medication?

8 JOHN RAMSEY: Taking Prozac.

9 LOU SMIT: Okay.

10 JOHN RAMSEY: Twenty milligrams in the

11 morning, ten milligrams at night.

12 LOU SMIT: Okay. And who is the doctor?

13 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, Dr. Sheevy, Catherine

14 Sheevy, is who I saw in Boulder. Well I haven't

15 seen her in a while. Steven Jaffee, Dr. Steven

16 Jaffee in Atlanta, prescribed the Prozac for me.

17 LOU SMIT: Okay.

18 JOHN RAMSEY: He's actually Burke's

19 psychiatrist.

PR:
25 TOM HANEY: Ms. Ramsey, are you

0005

1 currently under a doctor's care?

2 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, I am.

3 TOM HANEY: And who is the doctor?

4 PATSY RAMSEY: Dr. Sammy Brown,

5 Samuel Brown in Atlanta, psychiatrist, M.D.

6 TOM HANEY: Okay. And are you

7 taking any medication?

8 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.

9 TOM HANEY: And what are you

10 taking?

11 PATSY RAMSEY: I take 30 milligrams

12 of Prozac a day, and Ativan, half a milligram as

13 needed.

This aligns with my theory that BR had ongoing issues.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

The biggest issue is the link of Patsy to the Ransom note, the handwriting samples, the RN analysis. It's hard to say that the chemo diminished Patsy's strength and she was frail. Patsy was diagnosed on July 4th 1993. Her final chemo treatment was somewhere in the ballpark of March 1994. She had 1.5 years to recover. If the swing was done right, Patsy could have caused the injury.

The biggest JDI advocate out there is DocG. Solving the JonBenet Ramsey Case Some people here will tell you how wrong DocG is because he vigorously defends his theory and ignores some evidence. That's true. For me, I believe DocG only went so far on the case, decided he had it and stopped asking questions. Case solved. That's it. The end.

John's motive is always sexual. He's not portrayed as a pedophile who seeks out children, but as a sexual situational aggressor. Basically, if Patsy isn't available, he'll turn to his daughter if they're in the right place and time. In this theory, John knows he'll be exposed so in a moment of panic, he kills his daughter. He's 52 at this time in his life, has money, and can seek out call girls for his sexual needs if he's so inclined so turning to his daughter makes him infinitely worse if he did such a thing.

JDI is a valid theory. It's every bit as valid as PDI. I'm not in the BDI camp not because I don't think Burke could have done it, but because James Kolar's most compelling piece of evidence, the train track, is wrong. It's like Lou Smit and the stun gun--easily debunked.

This theory is possible but is it likely? We know John Ramsey had affairs.
Why not continue to have affairs when PR was undergoing treatment?
He had money and status. He didn't need to turn to JB for situational sex IMO. He either is or isn't a pedo.
He could have bought all the sex he wanted and we know he talks a good game. If he can sell a kidnapping story, he can bs to get a little!

 

[Swirlz]

This aligns with my theory that BR had ongoing issues.

Burke received mental health care post-homicide. There is no evidence to suggest Burke was being seen by a psychiatrist prior to JBR's death. There is also no evidence to suggest Burke was ever aggressive or inappropriate with JBR other than a single incident, from two yrs prior to the homicide, involving Burke striking JBR with a golf club. The clip was to her cheek which aligns with the story told that it was an accident. The lead detective believed it was an accident. JBR did sustain a slight facial injury.

 

[Swirlz]

This theory is possible but is it likely? We know John Ramsey had affairs.
Why not continue to have affairs when PR was undergoing treatment?
He had money and status. He didn't need to turn to JB for situational sex IMO. He either is or isn't a pedo.
He could have bought all the sex he wanted and we know he talks a good game. If he can sell a kidnapping story, he can bs to get a little!

The consistent theme of that an adult who has had and who could have adult partners wouldn't commit CSA is false. If it were true CSA by a parent wouldn't exist. Researcher Louise Armstrong, author of Kiss Daddy Goodnight, believed father/daughter "incest" occurs in about one in 50 families and that the average age of onset is about 6.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

The consistent theme of that an adult who has had and who could have adult partners wouldn't commit CSA is false. If it were true CSA by a parent wouldn't exist. Researcher Louise Armstrong, author of Kiss Daddy Goodnight, believed father/daughter "incest" occurs in about one in 50 families and that the average age of onset is about 6.

I didn't say it was false because married or men with partners don't abuse children but because his prior MO was to have affairs. I was specifically addressing those who cite situational abuse. My point being JR had options when it came to getting a little and seemed to know how.

 

[Swirlz]

I didn't say it was false because married or men with partners don't abuse children but because his prior MO was to have affairs. I was specifically addressing those who cite situational abuse. My point being JR had options when it came to getting a little and seemed to know how.

I'm still not clear on how that excludes him as a potential abuser. There are many examples of powerful, wealthy and charismatic men committing CSA. Former Miss America, Marilyn Van Derbur's father was a wealthy philanthropist who was described as very charming. No one is easier to dominate than a little child. No one will look up to and idolize an adult more.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

I'm still not clear on how that excludes him as a potential abuser. There are many examples of powerful, wealthy and charismatic men committing CSA. Former Miss America, Marilyn Van Derbur's father was a wealthy philanthropist who was described as very charming. No one is easier to dominate than a little child. No one will look up to and idolize an adult more.

He is not excluded as a suspect. He lived in the home.
My issue is jumping to the conclusion he abused JB because he wasn't getting it from Patsy. I think that is a weak reason to blame someone for SA. If you want to believe every man who goes through a dry spell with their spouse/partner turns into a pedophile in order to get sex, that is your porogitive. I personally don't think you you wake up at 50 years old and think," my wife isn't giving me any, I think I'll get it from a 6 year old." The man that does that has always been/ is a pedophile.
It is the situational pedophilia aspect that I disagree with.
Man doesn't get sex from wife, man turns into pedophile. Sorry, but I give men a little more credit than that .

 

[Swirlz]

My issue is jumping to the conclusion he abused JB because he wasn't getting it from Patsy.

In addition to that "he wasn't getting it from Patsy":

His fibers were found located in his daughter's labia and underpants crotch.

A former maid described being creeped out by him keeping a photo collage of his deceased 22 yr old in his bathtub including pics of her in her cheerleading outfit.

The only member of law enforcement present at the time the body was recovered from the basement happened to be an experienced sex crimes investigator who stated her belief that John was responsible for prior SA and implied the Boulder Dept. of Social Services agreed with her conclusion.

JBR's bedroom being in an odd and isolated location, a floor below the master bedroom and on the opposite side of the hall from Burke with the staircase leading up to the master bedroom bathroom being right outside JBR's bedroom door, providing very easy access since if one were to want to be secretive about going down to JBR's bedroom they can simply say they're going to the bathroom. According to a former maid it was John's idea to place JBR in that location.

Child abuse investigator Holly Smith making a point in her Denver Post article interview that a child's BEDROOM is an important part of any child abuse investigation. Holly Smith is a part of Boulder Social Services.

The claim in the Bonita papers that JBR occasionally gets up in the middle of the night to go clear across the hall to sleep in Burke's twin bed. Who might she be seeking protection from at night?

A 6 yr. old being found deceased on his basement floor with evidence of SA both on the night of the homicide and evidence of prior abuse and John Ramsey being the only adult male present in the home at the time.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

In addition to that "he wasn't getting it from Patsy":

His fibers were found located in his daughter's labia and underpants crotch.

A former maid described being creeped out by him keeping a photo collage of his deceased 22 yr old in his bathtub including pics of her in her cheerleading outfit.

The only member of law enforcement present at the time the body was recovered from the basement happened to be an experienced sex crimes investigator who stated her belief that John was responsible for prior SA and implied the Boulder Dept. of Social Services agreed with her conclusion.

JBR's bedroom being in an odd and isolated location, a floor below the master bedroom and on the opposite side of the hall from Burke with the staircase leading up to the master bedroom bathroom being right outside JBR's bedroom door, providing very easy access since if one were to want to be secretive about going down to JBR's bedroom they can simply say they're going to the bathroom. According to a former maid it was John's idea to place JBR in that location.

Child abuse investigator Holly Smith making a point in her Denver Post article interview that a child's BEDROOM is an important part of any child abuse investigation. Holly Smith is a part of Boulder Social Services.

The claim in the Bonita papers that JBR occasionally gets up in the middle of the night to go clear across the hall to sleep in Burke's twin bed. Who might she be seeking protection from at night?

A 6 yr. old being found deceased on his basement floor with evidence of SA both on the night of the homicide and evidence of prior abuse and John Ramsey being the only adult male present in the home at the time.

You are convinced it was JR.
Got it. You keep purposely pulling a JR and ignore the the question pertaining to the topic I posted regarding
" situational abuse" You have zero evidence regarding situational abuse.
My topic was situational abuse as a stand alone reason to point a finger at a man. Try that one in court. "Your honor my proof to the court that he SAd his daughter is because his wife was sick and cut him off". OK you win.
It's a great theory.

I stand with Kolar.

 

[Swirlz]

I stand with Kolar.

Not addressing this comment to anyone in particular but because Kolar comes up a lot in conversations about the case, I just want to make the point that Kolar didn't investigate JBR's homicide. He reviewed available evidence while working briefly for the Boulder DA in 2005. He self-published his book based on the BDI theory in 2011. Kolar uncovered no new evidence and is the only investigator who believes BDI.