Why GJ Likely Solved Case In 1999

[skybluepink]

Sayin' it don't make it so, though, does it?

 

[RedChief]

Sayin' it don't make it so, though, does it?

Why can't we all just be honest? Life'd be a lot simpler. Many fewer lawyers for one thing.

 

[skybluepink]

Gentle Reader: Miss Manners has pointed out that society would crumble if we were all honest. BTW, thank you for your earlier reading recommendations; I'm enchanted by the titles alone. I reciprocate w/Miss Manners' Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior.

I also regret any offense that my harsh observation about this poor darling child's lack of real talent engendered. (But the competition usually gets stiffer as one progresses in any such endeavor.) I think we can at least agree that we're all on her side and that her killer needs to confront this crime.

Desperate Soul: Mercy awaits you, whoever you are.

 

[RedChief]

Gentle Reader: Miss Manners has pointed out that society would crumble if we were all honest. BTW, thank you for your earlier reading recommendations; I'm enchanted by the titles alone. I reciprocate w/Miss Manners' Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior.

I also regret any offense that my harsh observation about this poor darling child's lack of real talent engendered. (But the competition usually gets stiffer as one progresses in any such endeavor.) I think we can at least agree that we're all on her side and that her killer needs to confront this crime.

Desperate Soul: Mercy awaits you, whoever you are.

Lordy, Sky, who ya callin' Miss Manners????? Now don't be too obtuse with your rejoinders; you'll lose half your audience, including especially moi.

Just in case you were referring to my post concerning being honest; it was tongue in cheek. Hope you're not a lawyer, but something tells me you might be....nah!

I happen to agree with your comment--sayin' it doesn't make it so. What would you expect a pageant bigwig to say--that little snot doesn't have an ounce of talent and is uglier than a mud fence? She knows which wheels to grease, eh?

Just in case you were referring to the books I mentioned (recommended?); they are old books, I think, but I learned a lot from them. Of course, being the baby that I am, I have a whole lot o' learnin' to do. heh heh

Sock it to me....Miss Manners?...well, I never!

 

[Nova]

I'm sure you're right about the DA not wanting double jeopardy to attach. If I remember correctly, Hunter himself mentioned such a concern more than once (and specifically in response to Steve Thomas' charge that the lack of prosecution was cowardly).

As for JBR in pageants, I'm not sure how to judge. I'm not an expert on children that age, but in my experience in church and in the theater, it's a rare five or six-year-old who CAN sing consistently on key, particularly when being asked to sing age-inappropriate material. There are some kids, of course, who seem to sing in tune from birth, but they are a rarity. Despite the occasional prodigy, matching pitches is an acquired skill.

JBR seemed pretty to me, but I don't claim to be an expert. (And I agree that any child that age who is heavily made up looks horrible. But apparently pageant people think otherwise.)

But anyone who's seen the documentary on kid pageants (I can't recall the title) and Bravo's "Stage Moms and Dads" knows that when it comes to pageant parents, beauty and musicality are in the eye and ear of the beholder.

 

[Goody]

Did the Ramsey grand jury, after investigating the JonBenet Ramsey murder for 13 months and interviewing an estimated 100 witnesses, solve the crime back in 1999? It appears this could be so.

But if so, why hasn't the name of the killer been released to the public? The only answer that could fit this question is that it would be against the Colorado Children's Code to release the name of a juvenile too young to even be charged with a serious crime.


BlueCrab

Do you really think the boy was strong enough to inflict the kind of injuries JB suffered? He was not much bigger in stature than she.

 

[BlueCrab]

Do you really think the boy was strong enough to inflict the kind of injuries JB suffered? He was not much bigger in stature than she.

Goody,

Yes, Burke definitely was physically capable of inflicting the injuries on JonBenet. Burke was twice the size and weight of JonBenet.

We know from the autopsy that 6-year-old JonBenet weighed 45 pounds. We don't have any measurements on 9-year-old (he would be 10 in 4 weeks) Burke, but he appears to weigh at least 90 pounds.

By way of comparison, my average-built 10-year-old grandson lives with me, weighs 110 pounds, and is strong as a bull.

 

[RedChief]

Goody,

Yes, Burke definitely was physically capable of inflicting the injuries on JonBenet. Burke was twice the size and weight of JonBenet.

We know from the autopsy that 6-year-old JonBenet weighed 45 pounds. We don't have any measurements on 9-year-old (he would be 10 in 4 weeks) Burke, but he appears to weigh at least 90 pounds.

By way of comparison, my average-built 10-year-old grandson lives with me, weighs 110 pounds, and is strong as a bull.

BC, first you declare that Burke was twice the size and weight of JonBenet. Then you go on to say, "We don't have any measurement on the 9-yr-old boy..." Do you see a problem here?

Then you go on to say he appears [to BC] to weigh at least 90 lb; [therefore he was physically capable of inflicting the injuries on JonBenet.]

Which injuries--the head injury, the neck injuries, the vaginal injury, all the injuries?

I think what makes a boy (or anyone for that matter) capable of inflicting an injury (in terms of his strength) is the extent of development of his muscles. If Burke were an avid softball player (baseball player) and had recently swung many bats and was therefore in shape for swinging bats, then he MIGHT have been capable of inflicting the head injury [this assumes the head injury was inflicted with a bat]. I doubt that he could have inflicted it with the flashlight, but that's JMO.

What is needed is (1.) the muscular strength and (2.) the proper instrument. I would guess that most of us have swung bats and know how much hitting force they can generate. I doubt that many of us have swung flashlights.

Maybe Burke hit her with a basketball.

 

[bensmom98]

Goody,

Yes, Burke definitely was physically capable of inflicting the injuries on JonBenet. Burke was twice the size and weight of JonBenet.

We know from the autopsy that 6-year-old JonBenet weighed 45 pounds. We don't have any measurements on 9-year-old (he would be 10 in 4 weeks) Burke, but he appears to weigh at least 90 pounds.

By way of comparison, my average-built 10-year-old grandson lives with me, weighs 110 pounds, and is strong as a bull.

From the following website http://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/:

The average (50th percentile) sized 10 year old boy is 54"-55" tall and weighs ~70 lbs. Therefore, Burke would have been bigger than the "average" boy if he were 90 lbs at the time of JB's murder.

 

[BlueCrab]

From the following website http://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/:

The average (50th percentile) sized 10 year old boy is 54"-55" tall and weighs ~70 lbs. Therefore, Burke would have been bigger than the "average" boy if he were 90 lbs at the time of JB's murder.

That link didn't work for me. I googled it and the chart I'm looking at says the average 10-year-old boy weighs 74 1/2 pounds. I weigh the kids every time we go to the market, just for the hell of it because the scale is there, and my 10-year-old weighs 110 pounds. He looks normal size to me, maybe an inch or two taller than average, but he's solid as a rock and they say muscle is heavier than fat.

Of course, build also has something to do with it. I'm 5' 10" and weigh 185, but people often guess my weight as around 165, probably because I have no beer belly.

Burke Ramsey also seemed taller than average because he towered over JonBenet in some of the later photos and seemed as tall as his mom in at least one. I'm gonna keep my guess of Burke's weight at around 90 pounds, twice that of JonBenet.

 

[Voice of Reason]

for whatever it's worth, when i was about 10, give or take a year, a friend of mine hit me in the head with a baseball bat. he was hands-down the best baseball player amongst my friends, and certainly one of the strongest our age. we were smasing matchbox cars with a wooden bat, and he didn't see me standing behind him. (ok, we were young!) he hit me with the tail end of his swing. it hurt, and there was some blood, but i didn't have a concussion or stitches or anything.

i'm not sure if this story tells us much, except, i guess, that if a really strong 10 year old takes a good swing at the head of another 10 year old with a wooden bat, the damage isn't THAT bad. but i guess, you switch that wooden bat with an aluminum one, and switch the victim from a 10 year old boy to a 6 year old girl, and perhaps we're talking a different outcome...

 

[RedChief]

This is something I've tried to track down: Is the skull of a 6-yr-old more resilient than the skull of a 16-yr-old? Is more force required to crack a 6-yr-old's skull than a 16-yr-old's skull?

I've encountered differing opinions even on this. The older skull is thicker, but also less elastic and therefore more frangible? Not necessarily?

The skull of a really old person is more brittle than that of a middle-aged person, and therefore more frangible. The two skulls are of about equal thickness. The skull stops growing at around what age?

I've heard it opined that skulls tend to crack along suture lines, yet JonBenet's apparently didn't. What's the explanation for that?

Can we even agree where, approximately, the blow to the head landed? My guess is at the site of the displaced fragment. I once thought the skull and brain and scalp injury could have been caused by her falling or being shoved against a hard surface. Now, after seeing the CS photo, I think someone struck her with a powerful blow.

Thoughts?

 

[sissi]

I have a nine year old right here! Size 4 shoes, size 12 slim pants, 95% for height, 7th for weight, takes a picture similar to Burke, looking lanky and thin, and he weighs 60lbs. Now he isn't almost ten, and being familiar with his rate of growth, I will expect him to gain five pounds this year (if I feed him hourly).
Could he deliver that blow to the head, god I hope not, but I suppose it's possible. Could he write the note, no...could he overpower his four year old brother.....definitely NO......if he was going to fashion a garotte I suspect he would use something already made, could he break that paintbrush with his bare hands..not likely..would he come out of this clean? Hell no, scratches, kicks, pulled muscles, six year olds don't go down that easy. Would he be visibly upset ..yes..would he be calm through an interview, no no.

Oh btw,have you seen Kondro the killer on cold cases? He ,in interview, said, first I hit her on the head, then I strangled her, then I bashed her head in with a rock. Then he said, I can wait ten years ,and then I kill again. Yes he kills little girls..hmm..and I believe his last KNOWN case was november '96. He claims if ever free, he will kill again, another little girl.

a snippet..
KONDRO, Joseph
" ....total lack of remorse for murdering two little girls.

The burly former Longview millworker ...father of six saved himself from the death penalty in 1999 by pleading guilty to the murder of a 12-year-old and admitting to the older unsolved killing of an 8-year-old. They were the daughters of Kondro's closest friends. Police questioned Kondro, who had a prior child-rape conviction, about more than 70 other killings and disappearances. He remains a suspect in some cases. ...the self-described psychopath is serving a 55-year prison term for the murders. It's outrageous, he says, that someone as cold-blooded as him could cut a deal."
Source: http://seatlepi.nwsource.com/local/33915_kondro07.shtml

...Born Don Lee Durant, both his parents, whom he never got to meet, and his adopters, are deceased; he requests contact from other biological relatives. Source: Kondro's 2/18/05 letter to Lori Carangelo/AmFOR (re his parents & adopters)


source..adopted killers site..
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...ml+kondro+child+murder&hl=en&start=1&ie=UTF-8

 

[skybluepink]

Sissi:
Yes, I also am struck by the similarities between the case you cite and this case. It's that gosh-darn RN with its focus on Mr. Ramsey that always tends to point me away from this type of perp.

I'd also like more insight on how much time a murderous pedophile tends to spend with his victims, in that it doesn't seem as if the JBR perp got to stay long or DO much of a sexual nature in the time sequence, but maybe it's enough for a thrill.

(And if he left his flashlight in the kitchen, how'd he find his way out the basement window?)

I'm starting to think one of us should weave a new thread in which we use our powers of persuasion to encourage the person responsible to confess. We can explain that WE are a group of individuals that represent a large domestic and foreign community of imperfect people who also make mistakes that we regret and for which we ask and deserve forgiveness. We promise to support the person in any way we can--since our job here will be over. We could try to get Oprah or John Walsh or whoever to publicize the appeal. Or not.

 

[UKGuy]

This is something I've tried to track down: Is the skull of a 6-yr-old more resilient than the skull of a 16-yr-old? Is more force required to crack a 6-yr-old's skull than a 16-yr-old's skull?

I've encountered differing opinions even on this. The older skull is thicker, but also less elastic and therefore more frangible? Not necessarily?

The skull of a really old person is more brittle than that of a middle-aged person, and therefore more frangible. The two skulls are of about equal thickness. The skull stops growing at around what age?

I've heard it opined that skulls tend to crack along suture lines, yet JonBenet's apparently didn't. What's the explanation for that?

Can we even agree where, approximately, the blow to the head landed? My guess is at the site of the displaced fragment. I once thought the skull and brain and scalp injury could have been caused by her falling or being shoved against a hard surface. Now, after seeing the CS photo, I think someone struck her with a powerful blow.

Thoughts?

The younger skull should be the more fragile and easily fractured. Babies have especially fragile skulls, and the plates sometimes do not knit until 1-yr or more.

This phenomenon is what lies behind the static language theory e.g. the neural pathways are programmed during this knitting together of the plates, resulting in the baby acquiring a dominant language.

JonBenet's skull will not have been fully formed, she will still have been laying down calcium deposits, this is the reason for encouraging children to drink milk.

In elderly people the brittle bone effect in the skull tends to be caused by natural hormone depletion during the menopause. And this can occur prematurely.

It appears that JonBenet was whacked on the head with violent intent, whether a homicide was intended is debatable, the sexual assault and noose is open to speculation, but on the surface it dont look like an accident !

 

[UKGuy]

Here is a Q for all the Burkephiles and Ramsay Watchers.

What does the Colorado Childrens Code say about innocent children who are drawn into the Grand Jury Process?

What does the Colorado Childrens Code say about children who are drawn into the Grand Jury Process, and then found to have been involved in an accident?

Is the state of colorado unable to inform its citizens and taxpayers that a child is innocent after due process, or that unfortunately, an act of god, or accident occured and there is no case to answer?

 

[sissi]

UK..No it "don't"! This was no accident. However it appeared as such to Lee, give that man a vial of something and a swab, he really has no place deducing such things from old crime scene photos. Why he was so easily influenced by ST ,I have no idea? ..baffled in Baltimore...
Those babies have some resilent heads don't they! I would suggest however that crushing blow to the head would have taken anyone down.
hmm RedChief, I would think the opposite, I would think there is some elasticity in a young child at suture lines , and yep an older person, I guess the skull is completely formed around 18ish?..would be more likely to have the force released at those lines.

BTW..I discourage my kids from drinking milk and their heads look okay to me, my motive is to avoid OD'in on bovine growth hormones.

 

[UKGuy]

sissi,

Sure I agree, this is why I ask if the GJ had decided it was an accident then surely we would all have been informed regardless of whether a child had been involved or not?

So if we can rule out an accident it sure looks like it could either be an intruder or a family friend come associate.

I cannot see any of the Ramsey's having a pressing need to kill JonBenet.


Just wonder if those bovine growth hormones were around when I was a kid we were all told to drink plenty milk.

 

[RedChief]

There are some websites that discuss skull elasticity but I don't have acrobat and can't access the PDF information. Help! Don't make me download acrobat.

I just looked at two sites that essentially say that young childrens' skulls are more elastic than those of older children and adults and are less likely to fracture. If this is true, then JonBenet's fracture was probably caused by one HE Double Toothpicks of a blow.

From one site which discusses Extradural Hematomas (EDH):

"EDHs without fractures are especially common in children because of the greater elasticity of the pediatric skull. The greater flexibility of the skull in children allows sufficient inbending and plastic distortion to produce meningeal artery injury without necessarily causing a fracture."

We can't just look at the fracture, however; we must also look at the brain damage underlying it. Would you say JonBenet suffered considerable brain damage or not? An elastic skull doesn't protect the brain as well as an inelastic one, but the inelastic one is more likely to fracture. With JonBenet we have both elasticity of skull AND severe fracture. I gotta believe this ain't no accident.

 

[UKGuy]

RedChief,

Surely we dont need pdf exegesis to tell us JonBenet's skull would be less than fully formed than say a teenager?

Now its entirely possible that Burke whacked JonBenet, and the rest is staging, along with Ramsey dissembling and lawyering up, this is a BDI which appears credible.

But how likely was it?

There is such violent intent implied in her head trauma it appears to transcend an accident.

From memory the area directly beneath the site of the head trauma , ie those brain structures would be damaged, how extensively it would manifest itself would depend precisely on which structures were damaged.

I guess she may have been paralysed and appeared lifeless after the blow to the head.