Why I believe that Patsy co-ordinated the staging

[Ames]

Hi Dave


I thought John was a pilot. You call the other pilot and say you'll be flying the plane yourself.....

I also doubt either parent would know how tight to "stage" a strangulation...JMO

Yes, you are correct...John was and still is a pilot.

 

[TexMex]

If John was a pilot, I don't remember it. Besides, what about Burke? Not only that, but if I were the pilot, it would strike me a little odd that he called me at the last minute, and then his daughter just HAPPENS to turn up dead. Maybe it's just my suspicious nature, but I'd sure get a little hinky.




Moot point, Tex. Did you read what Norm Early had to say? It's as simple as falling off a log. Anyone could do it. It's just common sense.

LOL Dave,


I guess it depends on which Ramsey de jour you think did it. Some think it WAS Burke....

I think there are easier ways to stage a strangulation than a garrote. A rope, a shoelace, a belt from a robe...

Always fun posting with ya Dave

 

[BBB167893]

I guess it depends on which Ramsey de jour you think did it. Some think it WAS Burke....

That's their business, and that's all I'll say about that.

I think there are easier ways to stage a strangulation than a garrote. A rope, a shoelace, a belt from a robe...

To me, that's a moot point, Tex. Patsy's fibers, by her own admission, are tied into the knots. And since she claims she never went into the basement in those clothes and supposedly never laid eyes on the cord, that's a big problem for her. Have you read my post on a spectacular death? If not, you should. It might help explain where I'm coming from on this.

Always fun posting with ya Dave

You always treat me with respect, Tex, unlike some people. That counts a lot with me.

 

[TexMex]

That's their business, and that's all I'll say about that.



To me, that's a moot point, Tex. Patsy's fibers, by her own admission, are tied into the knots. And since she claims she never went into the basement in those clothes and supposedly never laid eyes on the cord, that's a big problem for her. Have you read my post on a spectacular death? If not, you should. It might help explain where I'm coming from on this.



You always treat me with respect, Tex, unlike some people. That counts a lot with me.

Same here Dave.

To me the fiber evidence is problematic for this reason...if an intruder hid in the home while they were at the party he could have picked up fibers from the home which were transferred to the crime scene. Plus the lack of preservation of the crime scene by BPD...

I had forgotten about the cord...it did not come from the home, right...and neither did the tape..

 

[Toltec]

Why would kidnappers want their booty toted in a flimsy paper bag anyway?

What if it tore? What if it rained? What if it opened up & the money blew away? And how do you tell if how many bundles are inside IF it's all jammed together willy nilly & not laid out straight? Too many what ifs ..... why tell John to use an attache but then switch over to a paper bag?

They could have easily brought their own bag to transfer the money into AFTER it was delivered.

I never realized just HOW stoooopid this paper bag request really sounded until just now. Oh well, that's what you get when you deal with a SMALL foreign faction... the big foreign factions are SO much smarter.

While sitting in the kitchen phone area....Patsy spots a brown paper bag near the door to the den....

Officers found the brown paper bag with childrens clothes inside.

 

[BBB167893]

To me the fiber evidence is problematic for this reason...if an intruder hid in the home while they were at the party he could have picked up fibers from the home which were transferred to the crime scene. Plus the lack of preservation of the crime scene by BPD...

Again, you bring up a good point, but moot. The story Patsy gave for her fibers being there just doesn't hold up, for one reason, her own book says it couldn't have happened the way she says it did.

I had forgotten about the cord...it did not come from the home, right...and neither did the tape..

Well, the Ramseys CLAIM it did not come from the house. The hardware store receipts that matched the cord and tape prices say otherwise, if for no other reason than I don't believe in that kind of coincidence!

 

[Ames]

While sitting in the kitchen phone area....Patsy spots a brown paper bag near the door to the den....

Officers found the brown paper bag with childrens clothes inside.

AHHHH GEEZZZZZZ...I had forgotten about that. GREAT CATCH! Yes, that was the bag of clothes that she was taking to the lake. Man...you are GOOD!

 

[Toltec]

AHHHH GEEZZZZZZ...I had forgotten about that. GREAT CATCH! Yes, that was the bag of clothes that she was taking to the lake. Man...you are GOOD!

Thank you Ames. Patsy must have seen the most popular movie of 1996: "The Usual Suspects".

I am 100% convinced that it was Patsy who wrote the note. What male foreign faction turns out a practice note? A female like Patsy would think to do that... She is a journalist after all.

 

[LI_Mom]

While sitting in the kitchen phone area....Patsy spots a brown paper bag near the door to the den....

Officers found the brown paper bag with childrens clothes inside.

Boy, I completely forgot about that little detail...

PMPT

page #79/80


"Sometime that morning, Detective Arndt found a paper bag with children's clothing next to the Den door, and she moved it into the cloakroom."



First Floor diagram:

http://hellpainter.tripod.com/jbr/floors.htm

Is the Den the same as the Study in the pic?

Someone sitting in the kitchen writing this ridiculous ransom note could have been in direct view of this paper bag as they were composing.

 

[LI_Mom]

Thank you Ames. Patsy must have seen the most popular movie of 1996: "The Usual Suspects".

I am 100% convinced that it was Patsy who wrote the note. What male foreign faction turns out a practice note? A female like Patsy would think to do that... She is a journalist after all.

And suggest John rests up before he drops off the money. Awwwww

For the: Small foreign Faction Obstacle Course? lol

 

[Meyahna]

Also where was the suitcase found in the cellar normally? I had never really thought about it then realized: duh maybe that was to put Jonbenet's body in it and prepared in advance by Patsy for the following day. If it wasn't usually there then you'd think it's someone who knows the house and where to find the appropriate size suitcase.

 

[LI_Mom]

Info on the basement:

http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/The+Basement


Photo of the suitcase:

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/art/extra/ramsey/thm/img017.html


The basement showing where the evidence was found:

http://braveheart.users4.50megs.com/ramsey/bsmtcs.htm

 

[Meyahna]

Meyhanna, when I read that, I immediately thought about Patsy saying how JB was better off dead because she'd never suffer cancer.

That's a curious thing for a mother to say. That's sad I wonder if this case will ever officially be solved. If it's an intruder, which I sincerely doubt, maybe but otherwhise it's hard. I wish if Patsy did it Burke or John would just acknowledge that some things in her behavior looked suspicious to them and yes there is a possibility she killed JonBenét. John Ramsey has a cruel look but there is nothing in the events or in his attitude that could make me think he has anything to do with it, in interviews he always looks at people straight in the eyes. He was/is just being naive in my opinion. As for Patsy unlike some I wouldn't wish her to burn in hell I think that was an accident and she just made a very poor choice in staging the whole. But I don't know what was on her mind. I think normal people can do horrible things. I did find the pictures of JonBenét's neck very shocking though. If it was me I'd have called an ambulance immediately though. I'd rather go to jail and have a chance my child lives.

 

[Meyahna]

Info on the basement:

http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/The+Basement


Photo of the suitcase:

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/art/extra/ramsey/thm/img017.html


The basement showing where the evidence was found:

http://braveheart.users4.50megs.com/ramsey/bsmtcs.htm

Thanks.

 

[LinasK]

There was also an acronym involving Star Trek, as John was a Star Trek fan. I don't recall it specifically, but it was at aCandyRose website.

 

[azwriter]

Good point. We NEVER have brown paper bags in our house. How did the "intruder" KNOW if the Rams would have brown paper bags or not. Same thing goes for the attaché that is mentioned. A real intruder wouldn't give a hoot what sort of bag the money is placed in, as long as he got it.

Exactly Ames. A kidnapping is done primary for the money, right?
So within this ransom note there is all this instructions for how to prepare the money but the kidnapper does not make it clear when the child will be exchanged for the money. The only instuctions we see is "we will call you tomorrow." Without any date or time reference on the note, "tomorrow" is a useless instruction. Which tomorrow? Dec. 26 or Dec. 27. Only the author of the note knows which tomorrow is correct. The Ramsey's immediately considered tomorrow to be the day they found the note. Why, since they found the note on Dec. 26, didn't they consider "tomorrow" to be Dec. 27. Because they knew when the note was written.
jmo

 

[TexMex]

Exactly Ames. A kidnapping is done primary for the money, right?
So within this ransom note there is all this instructions for how to prepare the money but the kidnapper does not make it clear when the child will be exchanged for the money. The only instuctions we see is "we will call you tomorrow." Without any date or time reference on the note, "tomorrow" is a useless instruction. Which tomorrow? Dec. 26 or Dec. 27. Only the author of the note knows which tomorrow is correct. The Ramsey's immediately considered tomorrow to be the day they found the note. Why, since they found the note on Dec. 26, didn't they consider "tomorrow" to be Dec. 27. Because they knew when the note was written.
jmo

Hi AZ

IMO if the Ramseys were (one or both) the authors of the note they would have demanded millions and millions for the return of their future Miss America. JMO but the 118K figure seems to be some sort of taunting...like I know you...I've been watching you sort of thing. Why would her parents demand a sum they could write a personal check for from their bank account?

 

[BBB167893]

IMO if the Ramseys were (one or both) the authors of the note they would have demanded millions and millions for the return of their future Miss America. JMO but the 118K figure seems to be some sort of taunting...like I know you...I've been watching you sort of thing. Why would her parents demand a sum they could write a personal check for from their bank account?

I have a few ideas about that, Tex. But before I do, are you in fact saying that this was someone they knew?

As for why they'd do it, I often wonder if maybe, JUST MAYBE, they were planning to try and frame someone else for it.

But then, like I said, you're trying to make sense out of the senseless, which is always a losing proposition, IMO.

 

[TexMex]

I have a few ideas about that, Tex. But before I do, are you in fact saying that this was someone they knew?

As for why they'd do it, I often wonder if maybe, JUST MAYBE, they were planning to try and frame someone else for it.

But then, like I said, you're trying to make sense out of the senseless, which is always a losing proposition, IMO.

Not quite sure Dave....I think most business associates and aquaintences were probably investigated. Probably did not know the family but somehow stalking John, Patsy or JonBenet and having gained info on them for whatever reason: jealous of their wealth, beauty, success OR saw their daughter in a pagent (weren't there pics of her online as well, IIRC, which it is very possible I do NOT after so long not thinking about this case!) and became obsessed with her.

My gut says some guy saw this girl, stalked her and the family for some time, did some research on the parents and looked around the house while he was waiting.

Who were they framing, Dave? Interesting theory..

 

[BBB167893]

Not quite sure Dave....I think most business associates and aquaintences were probably investigated.

Well, does that mean they didn't do it? I'm trying to be open-minded here.

My gut says some guy saw this girl, stalked her and the family for some time, did some research on the parents and looked around the house while he was waiting.

Well, I'm never one to put down gut instinct, mostly because mine tend to be right. That's not a boast, it's a fact. But I just don't see how anyone stupid enough to camp out in the house hasn't been caught. I mean, from what the FBI said about this case, the intruder would have to be the stupidest home invader who ever lived.

Who were they framing, Dave? Interesting theory..

It's actually my mother's theory. Or was, I should say. Old Mum's no longer of this world. But anyway, she always felt that the Ramseys, at one point or another, were out to frame the housekeeper, Mrs. Hoffman-Pugh, who is one of the few people I still held in consideration after my conversion. She'd know all this stuff, right?