Why I will never believe any IDI did it theory

[snarast]

I’m still perplexed at the idea the parents would be involved. It doesn’t make sense at all. So many smart WS-ppl convinced of it….it boggles the mind.

The mess. The embarrassment. The negative attention. The abject and utter failure. Being dragged through the dirt for 20 years….

I can script up 100++ ways of ”covering” JBR’s death up that would be a whole lot less embarrassing.

IMHOO

 

[CloudedTruth]

Yes, John made a beeline for the basement on the second search that he did. I think that he found JonBenet when he disappeared and said that he went to "get the mail'. I think that he recognized Pasty's handwriting and went looking to see where Pasty hid her.

Linda Arndt said that John was calm that morning while waiting for the phone call, but was very nervous afterwards. And John told Melinda and her boyfriend when they got there that JonBenet was found at 11:00 am that morning, but he went to the basement and found her at 1:05 pm and brought her up from the basement.

Pasty wasn't the best housekeeper and I keep going back to their Christmas feast I think John called it. He said that he and JonBenet made pancakes and Patsy and Burke did the table setting and other things. I don't think it too far fetched to think that the bowl of pineapple had been left out on the table all day.

That year Pasty also had a breast implant that started leaking repaired and a chin job because hers was receding.


A very good source for information is at A Candy Rose

index.htm

It is an approved site by Tricia and if you check here on Websleuths Tricia tells us about the Mad Hatter Tea Party and Susan Bennett aka Jameson.

There are more than one possibilities in this case, for sure.

Det. Arndt had observed that when JR was sitting by himself after the 10AM deadline had come and gone, his knee would be going up and down. Nervous? Agitated? I don't recall what verbiage she used later on to describe his demeanor. But it was the impetus for her to want to give him something to do, which is why she asked him and FW to search the house "from top to bottom" and look for anything out of place or suspicious, but not to touch anything. That's when they headed to the basement.

My personal opinion is that JR knew darn well there would not be a phone call. The fact that he did not react or say anything when the 10AM deadline passed IMO supports this. It is also my opinion that he became increasingly agitated because he had been counting on police to find her body. Time kept ticking by, the only police left on the scene was Det. Arndt, so I think he was trying to figure out what to do. So he jumped at the suggestion of searching the house and in his eagerness to "find the body" he went straight to the basement.

He did tell Melinda's fiancé that the body was found at 11AM. And this of course raises questions. However his shirt fibers were found on her body (not her clothing), IMO he was involved in whatever went down that night. I do not think that it was all PR.

The bowl of pineapple obviously tripped up both JR and PR in their stories of what occurred when they got home that night. If PR had served it with breakfast that morning that's an easy explanation for its presence on the breakfast room table and in JB's digestive system. I think how they handled the question of its presence is a big red flag. JR's very first story to two officers on the morning of the 26th was that he had read to the kids after they got home and before bed that night. They were all awake. I think it's very possible that BR made himself the pineapple snack while PR was upstairs doing last minute packing. 4 months later, their story about what happened after they arrived home that night changed. The pineapple found in JB’e digestive system during the autopsy became an inconvenient part of the scenario that they didn't know what to do with, because their new story depended upon JB being "zonked" and all of them being in bed by 10:30 in order for the "intruder" theory to be believable. BR's reaction during his interview with police in 1998 when showed the picture of the bowl of pineapple was very telling. It was a taboo subject.

 

[887sMtreme]

<snipped for focus>

If PR had served it with breakfast that morning that's an easy explanation for its presence on the breakfast room table and in JB's digestive system.

If JBR had eaten the pineapple only at breakfast on Christmas Day, it would no longer have been in her digestive system at the time of her death sometime around midnight. As we know, there was partly digested pineapple found in her duodenum at autopsy. I know you know that — you are among the sharpest knives in the Websleuths drawer, after all — but I mention it for others who are new to the case.

 

[CloudedTruth]

<snipped for focus>

If JBR had eaten the pineapple only at breakfast on Christmas Day, it would no longer have been in her digestive system at the time of her death sometime around midnight. As we know, there was partly digested pineapple found in her duodenum at autopsy. I know you know that — you are among the sharpest knives in the Websleuths drawer, after all — but I mention it for others who are new to the case.

Yes, correct. I probably should've included that fact......it is mostly accepted as fact, however there are those who still like to argue that there is the occasional "expert" who will dispute how long it takes for pineapple to digest. So I decided to focus on the decision of the Ramseys to handle the indisputable facts of the pineapple in her digestive system with the bowl left out as it was with their typical nonsensical denials......(PR: I would NEVER use that spoon!).

But you're right.....it should be mentioned because it is important. So thanks for the reminder, and the very nice compliment.

 

[snarast]

If the family did it they must be truly me****, right? Just bats*** full on - not necessarily psychotic…. but definitely pervaded by histrionic delusions resulting from an assortment of personality disorders. It could happen.

From a ”follow the money” perspective it seems the end result monetarily is - no more JR at AG@Boulder.

Who would want to accomplish that?

I’m not saying that’s what happened, just exploring different options.

 

[CloudedTruth]

If the family did it they must be truly me****, right? Just bats*** full on - not necessarily psychotic…. but definitely pervaded by histrionic delusions resulting from an assortment of personality disorders. It could happen.

From a ”follow the money” perspective it seems the end result monetarily is - no more JR at AG@Boulder.

Who would want to accomplish that?

IMO there is certainly evidence that shows the Ramseys were not as they presented themselves. The true story reveals a very dysfunctional family with secrets that they did not want to see the light of day, rather than the perfect family living the dream.

Lockheed Martin had already decided to sell Access Graphics well before the murder, that was in the works and JR was well aware. The fact is that AG's business just did not align with LM's. And even thought their very successful $$$$ year sounds great, and it was for AG, the big picture is that was nothing more than a drop in the much larger bucket that was / is LM. It was a business decision and it made sense.

Everyone has their own opinion as to what may have happened that night. Mine is that it started with a terrible but unintentional accident. What precipitated that as well as what followed is up for grabs. Why they made the decisions that they did speaks to the dysfunction, the personality disorders and IMO a desperate need to protect that they felt.

 

[Ponytale]

If the family did it they must be truly me****, right? Just bats*** full on - not necessarily psychotic…. but definitely pervaded by histrionic delusions resulting from an assortment of personality disorders. It could happen.

From a ”follow the money” perspective it seems the end result monetarily is - no more JR at AG@Boulder.

Who would want to accomplish that?

I’m not saying that’s what happened, just exploring different options.

There really is no logic in that, is there? That's why I believe the accident theory. Nothing else seems to fit.

 

[snarast]

There really is no logic in that, is there? That's why I believe the accident theory. Nothing else seems to fit.

I can see that. Lots of obfuscation all around.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

I understand that if JonBenet had pineapple Christmas morning of where it would of been. I'm looking at the bowl left out all day and JonBenet eating some while Pasty was busy upstairs. Linda Hoffman Pugh said that she was always cleaning and picking up so to me it's not out of the realm of things left out for Linda to clean up when she came by on the twenty seventh.

If an accident I can't get over the fact that someone decided a dead JonBenet was better than calling 911.

 

[Sam10098]

Much of this case is based on “this is not how I would have acted” therefore Patsy must have killed JB. Works in a Lifetime movie but it’s vanishingly rare that a mother with no violent past would suddenly kill her child then coldly and expertly cover it up,



If you take Patsy out of the suspect list, the note seems to be written by a teenager - either manic or on amphetamines. Probably male given the movie references - and I think written before any abduction was even considered .



Someone known to the family. At the party, sitting on the stairs scribbling his ransom note on the telephone notepad about something he has fantasized about so many times. Has a sneak through the office. Maybe has done this a few times - watching people sleep is common before any escalation. People leave, he hides out somewhere (basement?)



So he’s fantasizing, but this time something happens - maybe he happens upon JB in the kitchen (eating pineapple?) and he acts on impulse.

I think someone young that was familiar with the house and felt comfortable there, and had mental or drug issues. I also think John had a suspicion of who it may have been but for some reason covers it up. I don’t think it was Burke, 9 year olds do not murder anyone (and on the rare occasions children kill, they do not revert to a normal life after)

 

[CloudedTruth]

Much of this case is based on “this is not how I would have acted” therefore Patsy must have killed JB. Works in a Lifetime movie but it’s vanishingly rare that a mother with no violent past would suddenly kill her child then coldly and expertly cover it up,



If you take Patsy out of the suspect list, the note seems to be written by a teenager - either manic or on amphetamines. Probably male given the movie references - and I think written before any abduction was even considered .



Someone known to the family. At the party, sitting on the stairs scribbling his ransom note on the telephone notepad about something he has fantasized about so many times. Has a sneak through the office. Maybe has done this a few times - watching people sleep is common before any escalation. People leave, he hides out somewhere (basement?)



So he’s fantasizing, but this time something happens - maybe he happens upon JB in the kitchen (eating pineapple?) and he acts on impulse.

I think someone young that was familiar with the house and felt comfortable there, and had mental or drug issues. I also think John had a suspicion of who it may have been but for some reason covers it up. I don’t think it was Burke, 9 year olds do not murder anyone (and on the rare occasions children kill, they do not revert to a normal life after)

Respectfully, of course people have opinions about this case based upon their personal feelings and experiences, imagining how they might act in a similar situation based upon those feelings. That's normal and I don't think that equating it to a Lifetime movie is an accurate representation.

PR is part of the picture. She was present in the home when the murder occurred, so you really can't remove her from the suspect list. Given what is known about PR's personality and history, it can be said that she did not have a violent history. But it can also be said that she was prone to be dramatic, over the top, insecure about her body and weight as she was aging, flashy, obsessive, attention seeking, very image conscious, living vicariously through her daughter, prone to mood swings from manic high to depressive low. She had gone through a very aggressive and tough course of treatment for cancer, which had left her with panic attacks for which she had to be medicated. Cancer treatment can be brutal, especially back in the 90's. It is literally about killing the disease in the body, which leaves people with side effects and differences within the body that can last for years after treatment has ceased.

PR was also over-scheduled, chronically late and under a lot of stress from the holidays, her responsibilities as wife and mother that were expected of her by her absent but controlling husband.

The assumptions that the note writer was male based upon movie references and a teen who was either manic or on amphetamines are just that, assumptions. What evidence are these assumptions based upon?

We can only assume that the party you are referring to was the one hosted by the Ramseys at their home on 12/23. It was a party for their friends with children. The kids were putting together gingerbread houses with the help of their parents. To my knowledge, most if not all of the kids were within the age range of the Ramsey children. BR was 9, almost 10, not yet a teenager. A manic, drugged up teenager off by himself writing an almost 3 page note would surely have been noticed by someone. Where were his parents? So he waits until everyone leaves and hides out in the basement until late on the 25th? Fantasizing about what he is about to do? Not missed by any family?

 

[CloudedTruth]

I would also ask, why would JR cover for this person? And to your end point, on the rare occasions that kids kill they do not revert to a normal life after, by that definition this teen would have been noticeable to others, in particular because of the notoriety of this case. A teenager known to the Ramseys and their circle of friends who was either manic or on drugs would stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[Sam10098]

Respectfully, of course people have opinions about this case based upon their personal feelings and experiences, imagining how they might act in a similar situation based upon those feelings. That's normal and I don't think that equating it to a Lifetime movie is an accurate representation.

PR is part of the picture. She was present in the home when the murder occurred, so you really can't remove her from the suspect list. Given what is known about PR's personality and history, it can be said that she did not have a violent history. But it can also be said that she was prone to be dramatic, over the top, insecure about her body and weight as she was aging, flashy, obsessive, attention seeking, very image conscious, living vicariously through her daughter, prone to mood swings from manic high to depressive low. She had gone through a very aggressive and tough course of treatment for cancer, which had left her with panic attacks for which she had to be medicated. Cancer treatment can be brutal, especially back in the 90's. It is literally about killing the disease in the body, which leaves people with side effects and differences within the body that can last for years after treatment has ceased.

PR was also over-scheduled, chronically late and under a lot of stress from the holidays, her responsibilities as wife and mother that were expected of her by her absent but controlling husband.

The assumptions that the note writer was male based upon movie references and a teen who was either manic or on amphetamines are just that, assumptions. What evidence are these assumptions based upon?

We can only assume that the party you are referring to was the one hosted by the Ramseys at their home on 12/23. It was a party for their friends with children. The kids were putting together gingerbread houses with the help of their parents. To my knowledge, most if not all of the kids were within the age range of the Ramsey children. BR was 9, almost 10, not yet a teenager. A manic, drugged up teenager off by himself writing an almost 3 page note would surely have been noticed by someone. Where were his parents? So he waits until everyone leaves and hides out in the basement until late on the 25th? Fantasizing about what he is about to do? Not missed by any family?

The manic teen is my interpretation of the note, obviously not based on any evidence. Yes perhaps I’m reaching a bit on this one, but many sexual attackers start out hiding in houses well before they escalate.

But let’s consider it was PR. She is “dramatic” so kllls her daughter in a fit of anger, as hysterical women do (in movies at least - not sure on the data on how common this is but happy to be educated)

She then panics, so writes a long letter to deflect suspicion, carries JB to the basement and uses a paintbrush to make it look like a sexual crime.

That to me is more of a lifetime movie plot than real life

 

[Angela_Beckett]

I'd be completely in the RDI camp if it weren't for the garrote. That's so brutal and heartless, I don't think any member of the family would resort to such brutality, not even to cover up an accident or a crime. It's just too much

 

[CloudedTruth]

6 The manic teen is my interpretation of the note, obviously not based on any evidence. Yes perhaps I’m reaching a bit on this one, but many sexual attackers start out hiding in houses well before they escalate.

But let’s consider it was PR. She is “dramatic” so kllls her daughter in a fit of anger, as hysterical women do (in movies at least - not sure on the data on how common this is but happy to be educated)

She then panics, so writes a long letter to deflect suspicion, carries JB to the basement and uses a paintbrush to make it look like a sexual crime.

That to me is more of a lifetime movie plot than real life

FBI profiler Gregg McCrary quoted this statistic when discussing the Ramsey case: "On a ratio of 12-1, child murders are committed by parents or a family member". In 2017, a report came out that cited just how sadly not uncommon filicide is. A study in the journal Forensic Science International looked at three decades worth of filicide cases (from 1976 to 2007) and found they occurred about 500 per year in the US alone. Close to 76% were 6 years or younger. And mothers were almost as likely to be the killers as fathers, at 42.6%.

I think it's important to consider what PR's life was like in the couple of months leading up 12/25. She had taken two trips to NYC within the past two months. She was in charge of all the Christmas shopping and wrapping, overseeing the decorating of the house which was monumental (a differently themed Christmas tree in every room of the house amongst all the rest of the decorations), she did the Christmas letter, she organized the Access Graphics party for over 300 employees at the Hotel Boulderado, threw a Christmas party at her home on 12/23, JB had a few pageant events and a Christmas parade, she was packing for herself and the two kids for two back to back trips with very different climates. There was the added stress of JB's bed wetting and toileting issues, which had by that time become almost a nightly occurrence. JR worked a lot and his expectations were that PR took care of the kids, the house, and all the preparations for the holidays. She was about to turn 40, which for someone so focused on her appearance and looking young for an older husband who tended to have a wandering eye may very well have been a concern. She had been through brutal cancer treatments which had aged her and put her into early menopause. That can be a very uncomfortable time for women, especially having to go through that at least 10 years earlier than usual. Moodiness, exaggerated and heightened emotions are common. We know she had been prescribed anti-anxiety medication for panic attacks.

That afternoon she and JB had fought over what PR wanted her to wear to the White's party. PR consumed alcohol at the party. She was typically vague with details about how much, but if she was also taking medication, that can also heighten emotions. When they got home that night, she still had packing to do and it had already been a long day.

There is evidence that points to both parents being involved in whatever happened that night, so I don't think we can assume that PR did everything on her own. I personally believe JR was as much involved as she was.

However when considering the RN, the personal references IMO points to a wife who was waffling between anger and resentment towards her husband, and the loving wife advising him to be well rested. Did she write it on her own? She very well could have been coached by JR on some things. He was reading Mindhunter by John Douglas. The film Ransom had just been released on 11/6/96.

Real life is often times far more bizarre than we would like to admit. People do crazy things, horrible things that are unfathomable to many of us. I unfortunately have had a few experiences in my own life that attest to this. One in particular if I had not experienced myself I would have a hard time believing if someone else was telling me about it.