Why Patsy did not kill JonBenet

[BlueCrab]

Patsy didn't kill JonBenet. It is MALE foreign DNA in JonBenet's underwear; the six handwriting examiners that count all say Patsy didn't write the ransom note; she passed a lie-detector test; and the grand jury found no incriminating evidence against Patsy or they would have indicted her.

The fact of the matter is that Patsy passed Ed Gelb's polygraph examination and Cleve Backster verified the results. According to the results, Patsy didn't kill JonBenet nor did she write the ransom note. Those are the FACTS.

Polygraph examinations given by qualified examiners are considered about 95 percent accurate. Gelb is one of the most qualified and experienced examiners in the nation, and whether he has a PHd or not is irrelevant.

However, the questions that Gelb asked of John and Patsy were carefully crafted to protect Burke. Please remember that all of the lies, the footdragging, the memory lapses, and the entire coverup being perpetrated by the Ramseys are likely for Burke's benefit alone.

Gelb's questions were worded to correctly let it be known that neither John nor Patsy killed JonBenet, but without disclosing that Burke was actually the one directly involved in the killing.

This is why the Ramseys refuse FBI polygraph examinations. They refuse FBI exams to protect Burke, not themselves. They refuse because the FBI questions and the follow up questions would expose Burke as the killer of JonBenet. The FBI questions wouldn't be carefully worded to shield anyone, as were Gelb's questions.

JMO

 

[TLynn]

This is the part I like:

Even though her coat fibers are in the knot of the ligature device found around JonBenet's neck, and on the sticky side of the black duct tape found on JonBenet's mouth, and she was deeply involved in the staging and is involved in the coverup, Patsy Ramsey did not kill JonBenet.

The evidence is convincing that Patsy didn't do it.

BTW, the RN is part of the "cover-up" - so why couldn't Patsy have been involved in that?

 

[Britt]

BlueCrab, since all of the evidence is circumstantial, what evidence exists implicating Burke that is any more compelling than any of the evidence implicating Patsy?

 

[K777angel]

Bluecrab, I have no idea who these "six handwriting experts" are that you are talking about. Whatever they said didn't amount to much did it because Patsy Ramsey is still under suspicion for complicity in her daughter's death.
So even setting the ransom note aside - there are other facts that obviously implicate her.

Take the linguistics in the note for example. For me, the 3 pages of the "thou doth protest too much" document have far more indicators of Patsy Ramsey's authorship than the "way" the letters were formed (and desperately attempted to disguise) in the handwriting. She wrote it with her opposite hand and on top of that attempted to disguise the writing during extreme panic and under intense duress. Making it much more difficult to analyze.
Handwriting analysis is NOT an exact science. But the truth is that of all the scores of people whose handwriting was compared - ONLY Patsy Ramsey could not be excluded. What a coincidence that SHE also just happened to be one of only 4 people in the house that night out of 6 billion people on the planet. Not to mention the fact that it was HER fibers found entwined in the knot in the cord tied around her daughter's neck. And in the paint tote where the paintbrush was broken for the cord.....

While I am with you that I believe the most likely scenario is that Burke accidentally in a fit of rage killed his sister and his mother covered it up - I do not believe that Burke had anything to do with the coverup. Particularly writing the note. It has his mother's touch ALL OVER IT.

I have to say though, I am not convinced that the "accident" and the whole crime occured soley at the Ramsey home. I think perhpas, as Alex Hunter put it: "It's much more complicated than that." (Evidence of the crime all being at the home only.)

 

[tipper]

Patsy wasn't the only one who couldn't be excluded.

 

[BlueCrab]

The six examiners used by the CBI are Chet Ubowski, Leonard Speckin, Edwin Alford, Jr., Lloyd Cunningham, Richard Dusak, and Howard Rile.

The six handwriting examiners all had the the original ransom note to study before the note was destroyed by the lab for further scientific analyses. Having the original note is an important factor in handwriting analysis. All other examiners had to use copies. The six also had all of Patsy's exemplars, both current and historic.

Their conclusions varied of course, but the concensus among the six was that Patsy did not likely write the note, but neither could she be excluded as the possible author. However, it should also be noted that MOST of the 72 suspects who took the CBI's exam could not likely be eliminated as the possible author, including Burke Ramsey. But, with her 4.5 score, Patsy came very close to being excluded as the writer.

The six are:

Chet Ubowski, Colorado Bureau of Investigation: The evidence exists that Patsy may have written the note, but it falls short to conclude that she wrote it.

Leonard Speckin, private examiner: Cannot identify Patsy as the author with any degree of certainty, but is unable to eliminate her as the author.

Edwin Alford, Jr., private examiner: Examination has failed to provide a basis for identifying Patsy as the writer.

Lloyd Cunningham, private examiner: There were no significant individual comparison characteristics, but many significant differences between Patsy's writing and the ransom note.

Richard Dusak, U.S. Secret Service examiner: There was no evidence that Patsy wrote the note.

Howard Rile, private examiner: Concluded that Patsy is rated between "probably not" and "eliminated" as the author of the ransom note.

JMO

 

[Britt]

The six examiners used by the CBI are Chet Ubowski, Leonard Speckin, Edwin Alford, Jr., Lloyd Cunningham, Richard Dusak, and Howard Rile.

Lloyd Cunningham and Howard Rile were NOT used by the CBI in this case. They were the Ramseys' hired experts.

PMPT p. 296 pb:
On May 18, at Mike Bynum's law offices, the Ramseys' experts -- Howard Rile, a former handwriting analyst for the CBI now based in California, and Lloyd Cunningham, a retired San Francisco police handwriting expert who had worked on the Zodiac serial murders -- pored over the original note...

I realize BlueCrab will again ignore this FACT, but I post it again for those who are interested in accurate information.

 

[BlueCrab]

Lloyd Cunningham and Howard Rile were NOT used by the CBI in this case. They were the Ramseys' hired experts.

PMPT p. 296 pb:
On May 18, at Mike Bynum's law offices, the Ramseys' experts -- Howard Rile, a former handwriting analyst for the CBI now based in California, and Lloyd Cunningham, a retired San Francisco police handwriting expert who had worked on the Zodiac serial murders -- pored over the original note...

I realize BlueCrab will again ignore this FACT, but I post it again for those who are interested in accurate information.

The Ramseys were allowed to pick two handwriting examiners before the original note was submitted to destructive testing in an attempt to chemically lift fingerprints from it. They picked Howard Rile and Lloyd Cunningham.

Who paid the handwriting experts is irrelevant. All six were paid by someone.

Both Rile and Cuningham were observed by Detectives Thomas and Trujillo and evidence technician Pat Peck as they worked separately on analyzing the ransom note. When Rile and Cunningham finished their work and made their presentation to law enforcement, "Hofstrom and DeMuth listened carefully. The experts' presentation seemed to have some merit".

Even Steve Thomas refers to the examiners as "the CBI's six examiners".

JMO

 

[Shylock]

The fact of the matter is that Patsy passed Ed Gelb's polygraph examination and Cleve Backster verified the results. According to the results, Patsy didn't kill JonBenet nor did she write the ransom note. Those are the FACTS.

No BlueCrab, those are AFTER THE FACT matters. It's time you deal with the BEFORE THE FACT matters, which are:
- Patsy FAILED to pass the first polygraph administered by Jerry Torillo.
- The Ramseys passed on a polygraph test which required them to take a drug test.

Those two FACTS make the "Gelb test" completely meaningless. ANYONE can pass a polygraph test if they're doped-up enough to effect their normal body reactions. Patsy simply didn't take enough of her Prozac the first time and didn't practice her answers enough.

Once you deal with those FACTS, then you have to deal with Gelb and Baxter being a couple of fruitloops who talk to plants and space ship abductees...

 

[Shylock]

Leonard Speckin, private examiner: Cannot identify Patsy as the author with any degree of certainty, but is unable to eliminate her as the author.

You're forgetting to add that Speckin also concluded that the chances anyone else wrote the note are "ZERO".

Can't positively identify Patsy as author.
Nobody else could be the author.

Put 2 + 2 together = Patsy/Author.

 

[Shylock]

Patsy wasn't the only one who couldn't be excluded.

She was the only one who couldn't be eliminated that didn't have an alibi.

If 100,000 people couldn't be eliminated, it makes no difference if 99,999 of them couldn't have been in the house that night.

 

[BlueCrab]

No BlueCrab, those are AFTER THE FACT matters. It's time you deal with the BEFORE THE FACT matters, which are:
- Patsy FAILED to pass the first polygraph administered by Jerry Torillo.

No Shylock; Patsy did not fail Torillo's lie-detector tests -- those results were inconclusive. Please stick to the facts. The facts are that Patsy did not likely kill JonBenet, nor did she likely write the ransom note, and Gelb's polygraph examination and the CBI's handwriting examinations support these conclusions. THOSE are facts. Please learn to live with the FACTS and consider adjusting your theory accordingly.

JMO

 

[BlueCrab]

You're forgetting to add that Speckin also concluded that the chances anyone else wrote the note are "ZERO".

Shylock, please stop it. Speckin concluded nothing of the kind.

Here's Speckin's full statement:

"When I compare the handwriting habits of Patsy Ramsey with those in the note, there exists agreement to the extent that some of her letter formations and letter combinations do appear in the ransom note. When this agreement is weighed against the number, type and consistency of the differences present, I am unable to identify Patsy Ramsey as the author of the ransom note with any degree of certainty. I am, however, unable to eliminate her as the author."

JMO

 

[BlueCrab]

She was the only one who couldn't be eliminated that didn't have an alibi.

If 100,000 people couldn't be eliminated, it makes no difference if 99,999 of them couldn't have been in the house that night.

Shylock, you are wrong again. Burke could not be eliminated by the CBI as the writer either. Only John was excluded as the writer. And neither could anyone who Burke or his parents may have invited into the house that night be eliminated as the writer.

JMO

 

[Nedthan Johns]

Who and what was the man in JonBenet's Charlevoix bed is just as interesting as any of this. Was he the one hanging around the gas station there, propagandizing about JR to keep them from getting sympathy, and why?
I don't think they'd done anything bad to anybody.

Ned: This story has been out for some time, and I don't recall the source of it, was this something the Ramsey's claimed or was there really a reliable source from the gas station that saw this man?

 

[Nedthan Johns]

To imagine your theory is correct, then one would have to believe that Patsy not knowing WHICH child, her own or someone else’s murdered her precious daughter, CHOSE to protect both children. This is absurd thinking, when she simply could have blamed the other and not Burke. IN NO way shape or form was Burke Ramsey involved in the murder or cover-up of his little sister. The child was questioned TWICE, once by a professional Psychologist. No way IMO could a 9-year-old child hide the fact that he murdered accidentally or otherwise another human being.

 

[BlueCrab]

To imagine your theory is correct, then one would have to believe that Patsy not knowing WHICH child, her own or someone else?s murdered her precious daughter, CHOSE to protect both children.

That's correct Ned. That's where the evidence points. John and Patsy are involved in an elaborate coverup to protect someone, and that someone is not John or Patsy because of exculpatory evidence in their favor. Therefore, it has to be Burke and PERHAPS another child.

There's enough evidence of a fifth person in the house that night, due primarily to the missing crime scene evidence and the foreign male DNA in JonBenet's panties, to not close the door on the possibility of Burke having a secret overnight guest that night. If either Burke or his guest killed JonBenet, the other would automatically be an accomplice and John and Patsy would likely cover for both of them. So as not to dash their hope that Burke did not do the actual killing, the parents may not want to know "for sure" which child did it.

Since the experts say Patsy probably didn't write the ransom note, and the note may have been beyond the capabilities of Burke to write, that third person was likely a teenager. The naive wording has teenage male written all over it.

JMO

 

[Nedthan Johns]

teenage males never use words like "attache" That's a DEAD Patsy giveaway there

 

[Britt]

Who paid the handwriting experts is irrelevant.

Fine, BC, next time you're involved in litigation, save your money and just go with what the opposing side's experts say...lol.

Even Steve Thomas refers to the examiners as "the CBI's six examiners".

Where does he say that?

What he said was that Patsy Ramsey could not be eliminated by no less than six document examiners ITRMI p. 344 pb.

And:

That made five independent sources that would not rule her out, plus Chet Ubowski at the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, who thought she wrote it but could not say so under oath in a courtroom. And the Speckin Lab was ready to testify that there was only an infinitesimal chance that some random intruder would have handwriting characteristics so remarkably similar to those of a parent sleeping upstairs. Taken together, the six opinions formed a strong body of evidence... ITRMI p. 224 pb.

 

[BlueCrab]

teenage males never use words like "attache" That's a DEAD Patsy giveaway there

Children who live in homes that include executive dads would hear the word "attache" on a regular basis.

JMO