Why Patsy: What incriminates her most. One sentence only.

[wenchie]

I don't know of any five-year-olds who can open a can with a can opener.

 

[Show Me]

I don't know of any five-year-olds who can open a can with a can opener.

Burke was 9 almost 10, Wenchie.

Sorry forgot to mention the pineapple was fresh...cut up a whole pineapple. Steve Thomas stated in his book, the pineapple in the bowl matched the pineapple in JB's stomach...'right down to the rind.'

Either Patsy or an intruder spent a lot of time preparing fresh pineapple.

 

[wenchie]

To me, there are just too many things against the Burke theory, although it would be the one that made the most sense, wouldn't it?

Boys that age fight, and knock each other around....but the strength needed for the force to crack a skull with a heavy object, combined with the complexity of the garotte (and the strength needed to imbed it deeply into a neck the way this one was)....from observing little boys....I just can't see it.

That type of adult strength and anger would have had to show itself in some type of pathology, both before and after the act (IMO).

I know that children have been known to kill children, but I've never heard of a case where it was so complex. It's hard to imagine a brother and sister who've never been known to have physical fights before....getting up in the middle of the night to sneak a peek under the Christmas tree.....and one of them suddenly developing the type of rage that would have resulted in this type of act..........especially without waking the parents.

 

[Barbara]

To me, there are just too many things against the Burke theory, although it would be the one that made the most sense, wouldn't it?

Boys that age fight, and knock each other around....but the strength needed for the force to crack a skull with a heavy object, combined with the complexity of the garotte (and the strength needed to imbed it deeply into a neck the way this one was)....from observing little boys....I just can't see it.

That type of adult strength and anger would have had to show itself in some type of pathology, both before and after the act (IMO).

I know that children have been known to kill children, but I've never heard of a case where it was so complex. It's hard to imagine a brother and sister who've never been known to have physical fights before....getting up in the middle of the night to sneak a peek under the Christmas tree.....and one of them suddenly developing the type of rage that would have resulted in this type of act..........especially without waking the parents.

Two things you should consider:

The garrotte "complexity" is just spin. The knot was not complex.

Burke, by his own parent's bragging had become "quite the sailor". One must know knots to become quite the sailor

Burke was also a boy scout

The head blow certainly could have been achieved by a 9 year old boy.

 

[azwriter]

The ransom letter is full of characteristics of someone familiar with writing for publication. Pasty wrote it.
JMO

 

[Show Me]

Burke was known to have struck JonBenet on the cheek with a golf club, Patsy was concerned JB would be scarred. They fought like other sibs.

 

[Britt]

....but the strength needed for the force to crack a skull with a heavy object...

An object like a golf club or baseball bat swung with momentum, and rage, is all it would take IMO.

As I've said before, I wonder if that's what caused the broken basement window -- the perp swung a golf club or bat hitting JonBenet and then the window. And that's why John tried to direct attention away from it by claiming to have broken it himself months earlier.

...combined with the complexity of the garotte...

As Barbara said, it was not complex, and even if it were it could've been constructed by a (1) boyscout/sailor or (2) parent doing the staging.

...(and the strength needed to imbed it deeply into a neck the way this one was)...

The embedding was caused by tissue swelling IMO.

That type of adult strength and anger would have had to show itself in some type of pathology, both before and after the act (IMO).

As Show Me said, Burke hit JonBenet in the face with a golf club in the summer of 1994. As for pathology, how would the public know? This was a family with the money and connections to keep stuff like that under wraps.

I know that children have been known to kill children, but I've never heard of a case where it was so complex.

It was the staging that made it complex, which could've been done by the parents.

Having said all that, I agree with you, Wenchie... IMO Burke didn't do it. IMO the Ramseys' post-crime handling of Burke doesn't support that theory.

 

[wenchie]

I thought I had read that the hitting with the golf club was an accident (?). At any rate, it didn't crush her skull like the blow on the night she was killed did.

And...I don't believe that the deep imbedding of the garotte was caused entirely by swelling....to have strangled her it would have to have been very tight....and either yanked with a lot of strength....or yanked not-so-strongly but for a sustained period of time. It WAS enough to cause death.


And with all the digging that's been done, I think that if there were any instances where Burke had shown the type of pathology that a sociopathic kid would have to show....either before the murder, or since....I think we would have heard about it.

JMnot-so-humbe-O

 

[Show Me]

JonBenet's hyroid bone in her neck was not crushed, which is the case of violent strangulation...it was not a violent strangulation, but one which was 'gentle' so to speak.

Plus she had two different sets of marks on her neck from stragulation.

Could be the blow came from John or Patsy, since Wecht stated JonBeent was going to die from the strangulation anyway? It had shut off her vargas nerve and she was dying.

Since JonBenet had bruises on the inside of her brain near the temporal lobes, I've often wondered if she went into a seizure or death throes and the Ramseys finished her off to save her suffering.

 

[wenchie]

Okay: it would take a lot to convince me that a child of that age could have that amount of both rage and strength without showing signs of an obviously serious problem.

One thing that's always bothered me: when Alex Hunter said during an interview after the Grand Jury was closed.....that a few times they had almost come to a point where they "had" someone....and that everyone would have been "very surprised" at who it was.

 

[Britt]

JonBenet's hyroid bone in her neck was not crushed, which is the case of violent strangulation...it was not a violent strangulation, but one which was 'gentle' so to speak.

Plus she had two different sets of marks on her neck from stragulation.

Could be the blow came from John or Patsy, since Wecht stated JonBeent was going to die from the strangulation anyway? It had shut off her vargas nerve and she was dying.

Since JonBenet had bruises on the inside of her brain near the temporal lobes, I've often wondered if she went into a seizure or death throes and the Ramseys finished her off to save her suffering.

I wonder that, too... or if Patsy grabbed her by the neck/collar and shook her.

Yes, I believe Wecht suggested the head blow may have been attempted staging to invent an apparent cause of death after JB went unconscious from pressure on the vagus nerve, her blood pressure and breathing dropping so low that the Ramseys thought she was dead. OR perhaps the pressure on the vagus nerve led to convulsions and the head blow was to finish her off.

I think Shylock's explanation makes a lot of sense, too. Here's an excerpt from his BDI theory on the "Your theory (other than intruder please!)" thread:

JonBenet began to convulse violently from the head concussion and died within 3-minutes. People who die from convulsions literally suffocate to death as they are unable to gasp for air. The petechial hemorrhages later misinterpreted by the coroner (and others) as being from the ligature strangulation was actually caused by the convulsive suffocation.

John took her body into the basement and decided a cord around her neck would be the "new" method of death. He tried to pull the cord tight but his efforts failed because it was nylon and it slipped in his hands. All he did was create a few marks that Dr. Spitz would later see as evidence of a prior strangulation. John needed some leverage, so he broke off one of Patsy's paint brushes and tied it onto the cord. He was able to yank the cord extremely tight using the stick, causing post-mortem bruising under the cord. Because she was already dead, the cord did no damage to the organs in her neck as the autopsy would later reveal.

IMO it was Patsy who created the "garrote" because her fibers were found inside the knot, but maybe both Patsy and John contributed to the scene.

IMO this is an excellent and simple explanation. The perp (Patsy IMO) attacked JonBenet in an ordinary lost-temper fit of rage, resulting in the head injury. Period. No strangulation, no one "finished her off." The rest was all staging.

 

[Tricia]

In one sentence

NOT waking Burke up that morning

Barbara I am copying you 100 percent.

That one act, or non-act, screams GUILT to me.

Anyone, EVEYONE, would run up to their child's room and wake him/her up screaming, "DID YOU HEAR ANYTHING, SEE ANYTHING."

I'll add one more sentence to yours Barbara.

Not acting concerned about Burke's safety when he went back to school.

 

[Shylock]

Not acting concerned about Burke's safety when he went back to school.

It's not only when Burke went back to school, it's the whole past 7-years!

Remember, John is a man whose daughter was slaughtered by a "foreign Faction" because they had a vendetta against HIM. With all the "foreign" crazy people in this world, how could he ever know that another one wouldn't kill Burke, "just because they could"?

If there really had been an "intruder", John and Patsy would have been shaking in their boots every day with the thought that the crazy man would return to finish the job and harm Burke.

 

[Show Me]

Yep...so confident the Ramsey's didn't bother to use their security systems and HENCE where burglarized again, in Atlanta.

 

[Barbara]

It's not only when Burke went back to school, it's the whole past 7-years!

Remember, John is a man whose daughter was slaughtered by a "foreign Faction" because they had a vendetta against HIM. With all the "foreign" crazy people in this world, how could he ever know that another one wouldn't kill Burke, "just because they could"?

If there really had been an "intruder", John and Patsy would have been shaking in their boots every day with the thought that the crazy man would return to finish the job and harm Burke.

Let's also remember Patsy's famous words "hold your babies close". For Burke however, he was sent away early on the morning of the murder and then in the care of Susan Stine who I guess they figured could handle a small group of individuals representing a small foreign faction; and let's also remember the...."ahem"....Atlanta break in fantasy where John did not once again lock the doors and had an UNLOCKED gun cabinet.

With all the "revenge against John", "jealousy", "fat cats" and all the other bull...., they didn't take much pains in the security area for their remaining family members and themselves with this vengeful murderer on the loose gunning for the Ramseys; unless you count attorneys as security

Most people would be looking over their shoulders forever, but not those Ramseys.

 

[BlueCrab]

When Alex Hunter became magnanimous and generously threw the public a bone as a clue by saying you'd be surprised if you knew who we were investigating now, my guess is he meant one, or two, or all of the following:

o Burke Ramsey

o Doug Stine

o Nathan Inouye

JMO

 

[TLynn]

I think Hunter was B.S.ing

 

[Shylock]

I think Hunter was B.S.ing

I agree. Hunter did, or said, NOTHING - unless it was in HIS best interest.

 

[Texana]

The pineapple is the first odd thing, because of the fingerprints issue. Also neither of my daughters ever would eat something on their own at that age--or even now, years older--in the middle of the night.

If not Patsy, then somebody who knew the child liked pineapple. Who else knew?

The other odd fact--not waking up Burke, to see if he had heard anything at all. Not as odd as the pineapple, though.

But I'm not fully convinced by those two facts--They are just the ones that stick out the most without any other explanation.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Hi again- since it appears Patsy is the person most suspected can you all tell me in just one short sentence (no arguing-thats not the point),why?
Or, what it is that makes you feel so strongly?...

Because the patterns in Patsy's ring match the patterns in the 'stun gun' marks on JBR's body. Until the rings are found and the body is exhumed, I will never believe otherwise: http://www.geocities.com/wolfchick942003/photopage.html