Why Was Jonbenet Wearing The Wrong Sized Panties When She Was Found?

[JBean]

Well, it bought him at best 7 minutes -assuming an IDI theory. It turned into several hours, but that wasn't due to the note, but rather the inept search. The intruder couldn't have planned for the police to be so sloppy.

But that's the point. The inept search was because of the RN, IMO.
Had they just gone in and found JBR gone, and there was no note saying she had been taken, I am confident both LE and the Ramseys would have done a much more extensive search and she would have been found within the first 15 minutes,IMO.

 

[Old Broad]

I think they perp did know their names, which is why he addressed him as John. People using first names is a sign of equality or superiority. I am sure the perp thought of himself as equal or better.

Wouldn't it be something if JMK did turn out to be the killer, and his name "John" was there in front of us all this time!

On another thought... I know this is wayyyyy out there but..... with the size 12 panties, could it at all be possible that JonBenet was not the first person to be wearing them? What if earlier JMK had found the panties and put them on himself? He's a small guy, would he have been able to get them on?

OB

 

[Chrishope]

But that's the point. The inept search was because of the RN, IMO.
Had they just gone in and found JBR gone, and there was no note saying she had been taken, I am confident both LE and the Ramseys would have done a much more extensive search and she would have been found within the first 15 minutes,IMO.

Ok, that's possible. But I'm trying to get into the mind of the alleged intruder. Would he really say to himself - "If I write a ransom note, the police will do a sloppy cursory search and not find the body, thus buying me several hours to get further from the crime scene" ? I don't think so.

With respect to you, I don't think it's fair to say the note bought much time at all. Assuming for the moment an IDI theory -which means the Ramseys statements on time can be taken as truthful- the note delayed the 911 call by 7 minutes. The only way the note can really be said to work is if the 911 call comes after 10am - after the appointed time for the ransom call.

I respect your opinion, but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[SleuthingSleuth]

I love that theory of the Ramseys did it to make it look like someone else didi it to make it look like the ramseys did it. Cracks me up.

Personally, I don't think writing the note was the risky part. I think torturing and killing JB was the risky part. The RN was perhaps an afterthought to slow LE down, which worked BTW.

I think they perp did know their names, which is why he addressed him as John. People using first names is a sign of equality or superiority. I am sure the perp thought of himself as equal or better.

"We respect your business but not the country that it serves."

"You will withdraw $118,000 from your account."

"The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested."

"The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them."

"Don't try to grow a brain, John. You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us, John. Use that good, southern common sense of yours. It's up to you now, John! Victory! S.B.T.C. "

Do these sound like an "unknown intruder"? Or that they're meant to indicate an "unknown intruder"?

The tone of the note makes it seem like the writer knows John.

It was also reported that upon being told Jonbenet was dead, John moaned out "It must have been an inside job!" (something along those lines)
Why would he be saying that to the police?

 

[JBean]

"We respect your business but not the country that it serves."

"You will withdraw $118,000 from your account."

"The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested."

"The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them."

"Don't try to grow a brain, John. You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us, John. Use that good, southern common sense of yours. It's up to you now, John! Victory! S.B.T.C. "

Do these sound like an "unknown intruder"? Or that they're meant to indicate an "unknown intruder"?

The tone of the note makes it seem like the writer knows John.

It was also reported that upon being told Jonbenet was dead, John moaned out "It must have been an inside job!"
Why would he be saying that to the police?

I have no idea if the intruder was known or unkown, I have only taken the stance that it was not the Ramseys. It could have been anyone that knew his name , knew of him, or came in to contact with him on any level. This is evidence that the intruder was familiar with John and his business . I think that could include a whole lot of people.

 

[JBean]

Ok, that's possible. But I'm trying to get into the mind of the alleged intruder. Would he really say to himself - "If I write a ransom note, the police will do a sloppy cursory search and not find the body, thus buying me several hours to get further from the crime scene" ? I don't think so.

With respect to you, I don't think it's fair to say the note bought much time at all. Assuming for the moment an IDI theory -which means the Ramseys statements on time can be taken as truthful- the note delayed the 911 call by 7 minutes. The only way the note can really be said to work is if the 911 call comes after 10am - after the appointed time for the ransom call.

I respect your opinion, but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

No worries, I am not trying to convince you,only explain my opinion. It's not that the the thought process was "they will do a sloppy cursory search", but rather that they would do a minmal search, afterall, why leave a note if you haven't taken the girl?No one was really exepcting to find her at all.
In closing, I think that is exaclty why the note was written. Meant to buy time and it worked.

 

[SleuthingSleuth]

I have no idea if the intruder was known or unkown, I have only taken the stance that it was not the Ramseys. It could have been anyone that knew his name , knew of him, or came in to contact with him on any level. This is evidence that the intruder was familiar with John and his business . I think that could include a whole lot of people.

And perhaps that was the whole idea...to make people think whoever had done it was someone who knew the Ramseys.

Is a possibility, I feel.

 

[JBean]

And perhaps that was the whole idea...to make people think whoever had done it was someone who knew the Ramseys.

Is a possibility, I feel.

Maybe it was. "know" being the operative word there.

 

[Chrishope]

... "why leave a note if you haven't taken the girl"...

RDI ?

 

[JBean]

... "why leave a note if you haven't taken the girl"...

RDI ?

nope IDI...buy time.

ETA: Most importantly, the intruder wrote the RN to keep the Ramseys from calling the police. That, of course, did not work. But as many posters (mainly RDI's) here have said over and over and over, "if it had been me, i would have done exaclty what the note said" and not have called the police. So it stands to reason the Intruder thought the Ramseys would not call the police. he was wrong, but the majority here (IMO) think this is what the average person would have done. Hence, buying the intruder more time.

 

[SleuthingSleuth]

nope IDI...buy time.

If it was an intruder and had that idea, then he'd certainly rather unique.

The amount of time such an intruder would have been in the house, with 3 people sleeping in it, and without making any mistakes...he must have been quite an intruder then.

I really don't get though how after committing the murder, instead of getting away, considering no one's seen him and he's left no trace of himself...he decides instead to sit down and write a long, thought out note, and leave it on the staircase that Patsy normally comes down on in the mornings.

Why would this guy feel he needs to buy any time at all? Was he expecting the police to be looking just for him in particular if he didn't leave a kidnapping ruse?

 

[JBean]

If it was an intruder and had that idea, then he'd certainly rather unique.

The amount of time such an intruder would have been in the house, with 3 people sleeping in it, and without making any mistakes...he must have been quite an intruder then.

I really don't get though how after committing the murder, instead of getting away, considering no one's seen him and he's left no trace of himself...he decides instead to sit down and write a long, thought out note, and leave it on the staircase that Patsy normally comes down on in the mornings.

Why would this guy feel he needs to buy any time at all? Was he expecting the police to be looking just for him in particular if he didn't leave a kidnapping ruse?

You bet! This whole case is unique. We do not know when the intruder entered the house. Clealry he spent time with her an clearly he had plenty of time to write a note.
I think writing a note saying don't call the police was ingenious. He had no idea when the note would be discovered. 2 am or 7 am. The note was a clever way to buy more time, because, as I say, most people on this board say they would have heeded the warning of the note and not called LE right off.
Similar to bank robbers telling the victims to stay on the floor and not call the cops. Most will stay on the floor even after they are gone, for a time, but ultimately get up and phone the cops. the robbers are just after a little getaway time.
That is what this guy was doing, IMO. Don't call the police.

Off to the Charger game!

 

[Chrishope]

nope IDI...buy time.

ETA: Most importantly, the intruder wrote the RN to keep the Ramseys from calling the police. That, of course, did not work. But as many posters (mainly RDI's) here have said over and over and over, "if it had been me, i would have done exaclty what the note said" and not have called the police. So it stands to reason the Intruder thought the Ramseys would not call the police. he was wrong, but the majority here (IMO) think this is what the average person would have done. Hence, buying the intruder more time.

But don't most people -IDI or RDI- also say that the average person would search the house top to bottom if they'd been in the Ramsey's shoes? Everyone I talk to says the same thing - they'd be in denial, they'd hope it was all a sick pratical joke, they'd search every nook and crany of the house.

You have a valid point that it would buy time if the 911 call wasn't made until after 10am - at least as far as police involvement goes. But why should the intruder assume that the family wouldn't conduct a search? What else is there to do for four hours? If they'd done even a halfway decent search they'd have found her by 6:15. And they did do a search after police arrived.

The only thing that bought time was incompetence, and there is no way an intruder could have banked on a RN producing incompetence.

 

[SleuthingSleuth]

You bet! This whole case is unique. We do not know when the intruder entered the house. Clealry he spent time with her an clearly he had plenty of time to write a note.
I think writing a note saying don't call the police was ingenious. He had no idea when the note would be discovered. 2 am or 7 am. The note was a clever way to buy more time, because, as I say, most people on this board say they would have heeded the warning of the note and not called LE right off.
Similar to bank robbers telling the victims to stay on the floor and not call the cops. Most will stay on the floor even after they are gone, for a time, but ultimately get up and phone the cops. the robbers are just after a little getaway time.
That is what this guy was doing, IMO. Don't call the police.

Off to the Charger game!

Well...Jonbenet died between 10PM and 6AM.
I believe the Ramseys said they got up at like, 6, or 7 AM. The note was right where Patsy would find it. (see, me, I would have left it on the breakfast table, or such).

If, as one assumes, Jonbenet died during the night...1, 2, 3 AM...that would give the killer several hours to escape the house and go back wherever he came from.

I really see no reason why he'd be worried about "buying more time"...he's got plenty as it is.

While I can understand the logic of leaving a note...it's just strange.

 

[bulletgirl2002]

What I think happened is JonBenet flung a fit to keep the size 12 panties and Mama let her rather than argue. Am I the only one that this has ever happened to???

 

[bulletgirl2002]

... "why leave a note if you haven't taken the girl"...

RDI ?

he wrote it earlier and forgot to take it when he left?

 

[Chrishope]

he wrote it earlier and forgot to take it when he left?

Possible.

 

[tumble]

he wrote it earlier and forgot to take it when he left?

When do you think he placed the note on the steps. Before going up to get JBR or after?

Doing it before forces him to be careful going down not to step on it(the three pages were all layed out together on the lower step) and if someone awakes when he is down in the basement they will see the note and be alerted.

Doing it after makes no sense ofcourse as she would be dead then.

Also why did he place the note in those particular stairs?
It would be easier to place it by the door, or on the kitchen counter. He would not risk stepping on it getting JBR.

 

[angelwngs]

When do you think he placed the note on the steps. Before going up to get JBR or after?

Doing it before makes him be careful going down not to step on it and if someone awakes when he is down in the basement they will see the note and be alerted.

Doing it after makes no sense ofcourse as she would be dead then.

Also why did he place the note in those particular stairs?

Excellent point! I had always thought that if an intruder 'did it', that the note was written before JBR was killed. I never considered WHEN he placed it on the stairs! That would be very important. It would not make sense to place it there before removing JBR from her bed only to have to be careful coming down the stairs with her in his arms. Maybe while he sat feeding her pineapple on the stairs he also laid out the three page ransom note.... and then took her on down to the basement where everything went terribly wrong...or maybe after taking her to the basement tied up, mouth taped, but still for the most part unharmed and unmolested, he returned to the stairs and placed the note there... Humm... good question. IMO

 

[Chrishope]

When do you think he placed the note on the steps. Before going up to get JBR or after?

Doing it before forces him to be careful going down not to step on it(the three pages were all layed out together on the lower step) and if someone awakes when he is down in the basement they will see the note and be alerted.

Doing it after makes no sense ofcourse as she would be dead then.

Also why did he place the note in those particular stairs?
It would be easier to place it by the door, or on the kitchen counter. He would not risk stepping on it getting JBR.

My hat is off to you. Never considered that. Of course it had to be placed on the steps just before leaving, otherwise there's the risk of someone getting up in the middle of the night and finding it while the intruder is doing his dirty work in the basement.

The note was placed on the stairs so that it couldn't be missed.

This also works against LS's idea that the intruder went out the window he came in. Why go up and put the note on the steps and then back into the basement and out the window. Easier to slip out a door.