GUILTY WI - 12-Year-Old Girls Stab Friend 19 Times for Slenderman, Waukesha, 31 May 2014 #1

[Ausgirl]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Can 12 year old PREMEDITATED ATTEMPTED MURDERERS be fixed?bbm

I'd actually like to see the studies blue22 mentions.

But yes, they can. "Fixed" is a bad term for it, but I do think there's a chance they could be rehabilitated and come out of this whole, healthy people once their jail time is up.

Kids more messed up than these two have committed more grisly crimes and done just that, I have as yet seen no evidence to suggest these girls could not, in time and with the proper help, do the same. We can only hope it's so, because one day they --will-- be walking around free again.


momrid6, I bet you're just so proud of those astute, clear-minded kids of yours!!!! Please tell them "good thinking!!" from me, way over here in Australia. Especially that last comment, from over your shoulder. Incredible. Good one, guys. I agree, that is very very possible.

I posted ages ago that I think there's a chance the Slendy story is a construct (I will add: likely based in some truth) to cover a real motive, whether that be jealousy (it usually is with girls this age) or some other mundane motivation.

That, or the blonde girl is seriously, seriously delusional and her brunette pal has a massive girl-crush and will do anything to impress her (as happens, sometimes, but I think that's likely the case, whatever the truth is about the other one). But you think somebody would've noticed that? Some time?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

It occurs to me, quite on the other hand, that these girls -may- have simply planned to kill their friend out of jealousy or some other 'mundane' motivation and are using the Slenderman thing to deflect blame from themselves.

I certainly do not subscribe to the concept that they'd be "evil" if this were so (though I have to wonder, if they *were* 'evil', and 'evil' was somehow quantifiable enough to be used in a court of law, would 'the devil made me do it' be a valid defense'?).

But it -might- mean they're more in control of themselves than they're letting on.I do think 12 year old are quite capable of this level of manipulation, and more.

Not a theory I'm sold on, just another thing to speculate on.

I'm also thinking jealousy played a part.

If anyone knows of this case which is similar, the victim, Shanda Sharer was also 12 yrs old. This murder was absolutely so shocking and heartbreaking, and jealousy was the catalyst, madness just took hold of those girls that night! It was planned and horrifically and callously played out, makes me sick! This is one that really angers me and I wish the 2 main accused never see the light of day. lease: jmo.
But Melinda Lovelace now helps train dogs for the disabled while still in prison. Can she truly be rehabilitated? Idk. My hateful feelings towards her are still very strong, sorry.

Murder of Shanda Sharer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Constance]

I always get the impression that HLN is trying to whip up some kind of community outrage, I'm not sure what they want people to do with that .. storm the prisons, go around beating up on whoever falls into whatever stereotype they have scapegoated for the week? I also find it insulting to the intelligence of their viewers, do people really need to be screeched at to be upset about a young kid being stabbed by two other kids she thought were her friends? It just seems like such a waste of resources when an intelligent discussion about crime in society might be of real interest to people. No wonder they advertise so much anxiety medication during the ad breaks, after 5 mins of JVM I'm feeling a bit angsty myself.

Two Minutes Hate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Within the book, the purpose of the Two Minutes Hate is said to satisfy the citizens' subdued feelings of angst and hatred from leading such a wretched, controlled existence. By re-directing these subconscious feelings away from the Oceanian government and toward external enemies (which likely do not even exist), the Party minimizes subversive thought and behavior.

Your post reminded me a bit of this! :twocents:

 

[CHERIE.T]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evil

: morally bad

: causing harm or injury to someone


Full Definition of EVIL
1
a : morally reprehensible : sinful, wicked <an evil impulse>
b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct <a person of evil reputation>
2
a archaic : inferior
b : causing discomfort or repulsion : offensive <an evil odor>
c : disagreeable <woke late and in an evil temper>
3
a : causing harm : pernicious <the evil institution of slavery>
b : marked by misfortune : unlucky

 

[Nymeria]

Two Minutes Hate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Your post reminded me a bit of this! :twocents:

Holy Carp you just went *1984* on us

I loved that book as a kid, but is is scary how some of the things happening today can actually relate to it. (I remember in the year 1984 thinking "Well, that novel was WAY off"...now...it's getting closer).

 

[momrids6]

momrid6, I bet you're just so proud of those astute, clear-minded kids of yours!!!! Please tell them "good thinking!!" from me, way over here in Australia. Especially that last comment, from over your shoulder. Incredible. Good one, guys. I agree, that is very very possible.

I posted ages ago that I think there's a chance the Slendy story is a construct (I will add: likely based in some truth) to cover a real motive, whether than be jealousy (it usually is with girls this age) or some other mundane motivation.

That, or the blonde girl is seriously, seriously delusional and her brunette pal has a massive girl-crush and will do anything to impress her (as happens, sometimes, but I think that's likely the case, whatever the truth is about the other one). But you think somebody would've noticed that? Some time?

rsbm: I am very proud of them, most of the time. I have 4 Chiefs, no Indians- who all like to think they each know best. This actually was a combined theory; the younger is a hunting/fishing, hard texting iphone jock; the older is a computer addicted genius jock who filled in the other about Slenderman.
I always love hearing your daughter's opinions (and other WSers kids); teens are alot more cognizant about some things than many give them credit for.

They are also humoring me: probably due to take away pizza

 

[CHERIE.T]

I'd actually like to see the studies blue22 mentions.

But yes, they can. "Fixed" is a bad term for it, but I do think there's a chance they could be rehabilitated and come out of this whole, healthy people once their jail time is up.

Kids more messed up than these two have committed more grisly crimes and done just that, I have as yet seen no evidence to suggest these girls could not, in time and with the proper help, do the same. We can only hope it's so, because one day they --will-- be walking around free again.


momrid6, I bet you're just so proud of those astute, clear-minded kids of yours!!!! Please tell them "good thinking!!" from me, way over here in Australia. Especially that last comment, from over your shoulder. Incredible. Good one, guys. I agree, that is very very possible.

I posted ages ago that I think there's a chance the Slendy story is a construct (I will add: likely based in some truth) to cover a real motive, whether that be jealousy (it usually is with girls this age) or some other mundane motivation.

That, or the blonde girl is seriously, seriously delusional and her brunette pal has a massive girl-crush and will do anything to impress her (as happens, sometimes, but I think that's likely the case, whatever the truth is about the other one). But you think somebody would've noticed that? Some time?

My next questions-- how will one know if these 2 can be rehabilitated?
If found guilty will they receive counseling in prison or would they serve time in a mental health facility??

 

[Constance]

Holy Carp you just went *1984* on us

IKR? I almost didn't, but couldn't resist!

I loved that book as a kid, but is is scary how some of the things happening today can actually relate to it. (I remember in the year 1984 thinking "Well, that novel was WAY off"...now...it's getting closer).

I didn't read it until I was an adult because they didn't assign it in high school. I've always felt it was more of an observation of human nature than a warning, although it can definitely be (and usually is?) taken as one. The things described have surely happened many times over throughout human history in varying degrees. I don't think it's a prophecy...

...at least I hope not! :scared:

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Question: Is there any way to treat these callous-unemotional youths?

Michael Stone: Well, this fellow is in a particular institution where they may be able to give him medications that would lower the tendency to act impulsively, like mood stabilizers and so that would be to lower the irritability, for example. They might also try to institute some kind of behavioral treatment where they gradually teach him that if there&#8217;s certain things you do it has bad consequences, even if he doesn&#8217;t feel in his heart that it was wrong. He might feel, &#8220;Well if I beat up this other kid, what&#8217;s the difference?&#8221; And you don&#8217;t make him feel compassion. You don&#8217;t try to educate him to feel compassion because it wouldn&#8217;t work, but you might educate him to say, &#8220;Well, okay so you don&#8217;t really feel in your heart of hearts that what you&#8217;re doing is unacceptable, but accept the fact that it is unacceptable and if you get caught, you could end up in jail or in very unpleasant circumstances. So from the cost/benefit analysis that these people are capable of carrying out, it&#8217;s not to your advantage. So that some of them can be deterred from doing what they want to do, thinking of the consequences not because they suddenly develop a full flower of compassion for their fellow human being.

http://bigthink.com/videos/the-psychopathology-of-evil-children

 

[Elley Mae]

Question: Is there any way to treat these callous-unemotional youths?

Michael Stone: Well, this fellow is in a particular institution where they may be able to give him medications that would lower the tendency to act impulsively, like mood stabilizers and so that would be to lower the irritability, for example. They might also try to institute some kind of behavioral treatment where they gradually teach him that if there’s certain things you do it has bad consequences, even if he doesn’t feel in his heart that it was wrong. He might feel, “Well if I beat up this other kid, what’s the difference?” And you don’t make him feel compassion. You don’t try to educate him to feel compassion because it wouldn’t work, but you might educate him to say, “Well, okay so you don’t really feel in your heart of hearts that what you’re doing is unacceptable, but accept the fact that it is unacceptable and if you get caught, you could end up in jail or in very unpleasant circumstances. So from the cost/benefit analysis that these people are capable of carrying out, it’s not to your advantage. So that some of them can be deterred from doing what they want to do, thinking of the consequences not because they suddenly develop a full flower of compassion for their fellow human being.

http://bigthink.com/videos/the-psychopathology-of-evil-children

Sounds like he's saying throw away the key.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Evil does imply a sort of non-human, or someone far beyond help, there is also some kind of religious implication, which is to me as fantastic as the idea of a Slenderman, perhaps Slenderman is a symbol of evil, but to call two 12 year old girls evil with such certainty, is something I just don't agree with, they haven't even been assessed yet.

 

[Karmady]

My 15 & 16 yr old sons- both, when asked about this, feel the girls are lying about the "why"- and one definitely has power over the other. 16 yr old feels these 2 are very similiar to the 2 who killed Skyler, except they tried to come up with a "better excuse", and their respective IQ's are higher. Their interpretations are based on the transcript of what the girls' told LE- and what they know about Slenderman.

I think they may be like those 2, or the girl who killed that younger child
"to see what it felt like"....

ETA: (both also are reading over my shoulder!) I am commanded to add that their excuse seems believable/makes perfect sense to them (the girls) due to their age, and they think folks will buy it- not realizing it makes no sense to most everyone else.

I have a 15 yo daughter and ita with your sons. Last night she was all WHO would do such a thing? I mentioned two girls she went to middle school with and she was like, yeah, I can see that. Imo, slenderman is an excuse and the motive is the same motive that middle school girls generally have -- except carried to the extreme by girls who are more than a little "off." I also agree with whomever said it sounds like a good excuse to these girls. They've probably heard adults blame the internet and video games for all kinds of carp. Maybe even heard of something like this happening before and the kids got off with a slap. Look at the picture of the blond being shown something by her lawyer in court. She's calm. Cool as a cucumber. She doesn't get it AT ALL, imo.

 

[BigCat]

Evil does imply a sort of non-human, or someone far beyond help, there is also some kind of religious implication, which is to me as fantastic as the idea of a Slenderman, perhaps Slenderman is a symbol of evil, but to call two 12 year old girls evil with such certainty, is something I just don't agree with, they haven't even been assessed yet.

I can only speak for myself -- I did not call the girls evil. I'm calling the suffering of that innocent child evil. Is there a better word for what happened to her? Personally, I can't think of one.

JMO

 

[momrids6]

That, or the blonde girl is seriously, seriously delusional and her brunette pal has a massive girl-crush and will do anything to impress her (as happens, sometimes, but I think that's likely the case, whatever the truth is about the other one). But you think somebody would've noticed that? Some time?

rsbm; this ^^^

 

[mrsobrien]

This grown up Tool fan is now stalking Maynard's wine, huzzah!

O/T OMG were we BFFs in the high school?! When we got a new car it has the most wonderful invention of satellite radio, I can listen to all the kinds of music I like non stop. It's super fun, all the good channels are in the mid-30's. Yay.

I always wondered the same thing about Ariane's quote...

Also, I have a cat named Maynard :rocker:

 

[claudicici]

Unfortunately there is a large segment of the population that lives by this kind of news. If it is not sensational and screaming at them I think it goes over their heads. My gawds have you ever listened to some of the people who call in to those shows? I remember some from watching NG during the Arias trial, the only time I ever really watched HLN. It kind of makes you lose faith in humanity :facepalm:

But since that seems to bring in the ratings, that is the programming we get the most of :sigh:

I have to admit what I do like about JVM is she cares a whole lot about animals and the environment

 

[claudicici]

Evil does imply a sort of non-human, or someone far beyond help, there is also some kind of religious implication, which is to me as fantastic as the idea of a Slenderman, perhaps Slenderman is a symbol of evil, but to call two 12 year old girls evil with such certainty, is something I just don't agree with, they haven't even been assessed yet.

ITA,I don't believe people are evil,especially not twelve year old girls.I believe we all have the capacity to do evil and there are multiple factors that play a role whether we do or not.I don't know enough about these two girls but it's just a feeling IMO that they did not use Slenderman as an excuse.I normally think it's a remarkable trait if a twelve year old still believes in magic,is in tune with their imagination,like children are and we loose that ability as adults.I do believe these girls still lived in this childhood imaginary world but somehow they lacked the empathy that goes along with it.These two actually seem very immature and innocent for twelve year olds ...and I'm judging by looks,I really don't know so I don't think this case is comparable to the Skylar or Elizabeth Olten case.I don't feel as if these children acted out of hatred or anger.....I do believe they were completely delusional and are more comparable with "Heavenly Creatures" than anything else IMO.I also don't know if they can be rehabilitated but history shows again and again that children with even the worst upbringing .committing the most heinous crimes can in fact grow up to be caring,productive,loving adults....

 

[CHERIE.T]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Man-claims-sister-obsessed-occult-figure.html

'She was very quiet, she kept to herself, but she was happy-go-lucky, so this is completely out of the blue.

'I know she understood what she was doing because she is very intelligent, to the point where by she lacks common sense.

 

[hoshizora]

I came across this case because it was posted on Skylar Neese's thread on Topix. Wow, just wow. This is really so shocking but I'm very glad the girl who was stabbed survived. Too often these stories have sad endings so it's nice to see one that isn't. I wish this girl a good physical and psychological recovery from this horrible incident.

This is very similar to Skylar's case (I don't know if it's been mentioned, I'm sorry if it has). The planning, the luring, the stabbing. Even the relationship of the girls. In Skylar's case, she was killed because, although it's not clear, but basically because of teenage girl stuff - they were afraid she was going to tell their secrets as they were becoming less friendly with each other. Although I don't believe that this is the case here and it's hard to imagine 12 year old girls consumed with such hatred to the point of wanting to kill.

That being said, as some of you are speculating, I'm not sure if I buy this Slenderman story either. 12 year olds aren't really still believing in stuff like this, I think, at 12. It seems like an excuse. But with saying that, I am finding it hard to find a reason why 12 year old would do this. I don't feel like the influence of video games or movies played a role here.

The two girls in this case definitely remind me of the two girls in Skylar's case. One of them looks to be a "dominant", ringleader type one and the other one more of a follower.

Jmo, of course.

 

[Elley Mae]

I'd actually like to see the studies blue22 mentions.

But yes, they can. "Fixed" is a bad term for it, but I do think there's a chance they could be rehabilitated and come out of this whole, healthy people once their jail time is up.

Kids more messed up than these two have committed more grisly crimes and done just that, I have as yet seen no evidence to suggest these girls could not, in time and with the proper help, do the same. We can only hope it's so, because one day they --will-- be walking around free again.


momrid6, I bet you're just so proud of those astute, clear-minded kids of yours!!!! Please tell them "good thinking!!" from me, way over here in Australia. Especially that last comment, from over your shoulder. Incredible. Good one, guys. I agree, that is very very possible.

I posted ages ago that I think there's a chance the Slendy story is a construct (I will add: likely based in some truth) to cover a real motive, whether that be jealousy (it usually is with girls this age) or some other mundane motivation.

to impress herThat, or the blonde girl is seriously, seriously delusional and her brunette pal has a massive girl-crush and will do anything (as happens, sometimes, but I think that's likely the case, whatever the truth is about the other one). But you think somebody would've noticed that? Some time?

bbm

OK That to me could be the avenue.

What if?
If the blonde is the one that is being spoken about as the intelligent one, what if she sees/knows that the brunette will do what ever I tell her, and what if the brunette fell for the story of slender being real by the person she admires most, and that in the name of slender and for slender we have to do this. idk But one thing I do know is that three is a crowd. I know that growing up three never played well together. jmo