GUILTY WI - 12-Year-Old Girls Stab Friend 19 Times for Slenderman, Waukesha, 31 May 2014 #1

[human]

My problem with "throw away the key" is this:

- one or both girls could indeed be delusional and in need of urgent medical help.

- it could also be that the urge to kill came from the particular dynamic of the two girls together. In an article I've linked a couple of times here, several forensic psychologists think this is probably so.

I've said I have seen this dynamic (to a lesser extent) in person. After being separated, one child (mine) quickly bounced back from the spiral of negativity she was caught in, because she wasn't unbalanced to begin with. The other one, who I believe had some serious psych issues but was *really* good at hiding them (I took her for mental evaluation because her parent didn't care to and they said she was 'mildly depressed' - she was much, much more than that, thank god I split them up before it got as bad as it did).

So maybe time apart will bring one or both girls back to a healthy mental state, as happened with the NZ girls. There really is hope that might happen. I hope for their sakes, and their family's sakes, it does.

- There are adult killers who actually succeed in killing and don't get that long in prison, so I highly doubt they'll get 65 yrs. Understanding them, helping them to heal or deal with whatever has made them want to kill at that age, I think is vital for all concerned.

Wow! You could bring someone else's child for a mental health eval? That would never happen in the US!

 

[MyBelle]

There are about a million academic papers written about America's violent culture, dating back to its inception. In fact I linked one here by Dr. Giroux. I'm not making it up, its been heavily studied, researched and commented on.

America is violent and glorifies violence. It's about as American as apple pie. Just turn on the news. These daily violent and horrific events are not coming out of nowhere. And nowhere did I say that other countries are not violent. I am talking about America.

I mean, our Nation's favorite sport is Football, its' so violent it gives the players brain damage.

it is okay to criticize your country. It's okay to recognize its dark side.

Do you honestly believe Americans watch the evening news because we glorify violence? Seriously, I sure didn't find the Sandy Hook massacre entertaining or Columbine or this near murder in Wisconsin. And I don't know anybody who enjoys watching a football player getting injured.

There are a million research papers about the exposure to violence and how it impacts kids. Our "culture" is not violent, it is the activities some individuals chose but no child needs to be exposed to the violence unless done so by the parent.

btw, baseball, not football, is known as America's pastime.

JMO

 

[Ausgirl]

Wow! You could bring someone else's child for a mental health eval? That would never happen in the US!

That's a long, long story, I don't have the energy to type it, lol. But I had all the correct paperwork and permissions, it wasn't just a case of me deciding to take her.

 

[nightwatch]

I'm well aware of it, she recently turned 13, so I'm dealing with teenage attitude now. I've never allowed her to participate in chat rooms, not even Webkinz ones. She deleted her KiK account since I was monitoring it. Most of her texting is harmless teenage stuff, and I know what boys she's interested in.
She also doesn't have a Facebook account, which some of her friends already do, but she does use our laptops for homework assignments...

OT
Disappearing apps.
My sil found this app on her 14 yr olds phone. She put a spy app on the phone. I can imagine there will be arguments in the future regarding things she will find on that phone. Jmo

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...=cpbmYLClPgnAuiLxLaukXA&bvm=bv.68445247,d.cGU

ciao

 

[borndem]

we might be considered dark. We like scary stories my kids have read teh goosebumps series when younger, heck they were even encouraged at school. We as a family watch scary movies together.

Are my kids at risk of going out and hatching a murder plot? I feel pretty confident they are not. I am really thinking this was some sort of perfect storm of two personalities coming together and launching themselves into a fantasy, isolating as Ausgirl linked about upthread, and I must wonder if either girl had not become involved with the other, they would have done this.

Sometimes it takes a partner in crime to "legitimize" a thought or ideal before you will act upon it.

It will be very interesting to see psych breakdowns of these young ladies.

bb

That's what I've been thinking, tlcya. Like Leopold & Loeb, or Bonnie & Clyde, or several other "bad" pairs (or not necessarily "bad" pairs). One has an idea & the other one has the guts, etc. They feed on each other's ideas, etc., and feel like they were meant to be friends.

 

[blue22]

Good heavens, it does reach a point where a child does earn your trust but the girls in this case were 12 years old. They didn't appear to have any boundaries if they were doing things like plotting murders.

JMO

How does that appear? They were planning this in the school hallways talking in code. In what way can you place a boundary on that? Who is supposed to know that two students are talking about planning a murder?

Where does the magical school boundary come from, where teachers automatically know the random two talking students are plotting a murder? How many pairs of students are talking in the hallway everyday? They should just know these two, who have never had behavior or academic problems...are plotting their friends murders. Okie dokie.

 

[Gardenlady]

Regarding supervision - I feel like it's hovering to excess to never let a ten or twelve year old go somewhere unsupervised. I sometimes wonder if we are raising a nation of neurotics with the way kids are overly supervised these days. Ten and twelve are old enough to walk around the neighborhood, walk to a store, spend time at the library a movie, etc.


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[Mrs G Norris]

Rather than helicoptering I took the approach of teaching her 'survival skills' on the net. How to spot a pedo (she turned this into a sort of 'game' and taught it to her friends, so they'd run off to their parents 'Mum, I found a pedo!' That made for some interesting phone calls, but at least they knew one when they saw one). How to deal with things that make her nervous/unsure/angry/scared. When to walk away. Lots of things, over time, and I found that rather than being sneaky with her net habits, she was actually -much- more interactive and open with me about her internet experiences.

The hardest thing to monitor is chat programs, and those are the worst for creeps and trolls. I let her have unsupervised chat now, because she's 15 and I trust her. She still runs to me when she 'spots a pedo', and we've reported quite a few.

But I think it also depends on the child - mine's pretty canny about people, and isn't easily disturbed by things. I think if I had a much more delicate and vulnerable sort of child, I'd have found it a better option to impose stricter limits.

BBM

It's funny you should say that, because when I was doing my 'Slenderman believers' search yesterday I came across a number of chat rooms, and discussions about chat rooms. Noticed some of these chat rooms were 'down' too .. funnily enough. Some chat programs automatically save logs to the computer, so if the girls were in them it would be interesting reading.

You know what, as part of the Slenderman creation a lot of people went to a lot of work to create 'evidence' that he is real to develop the story which I think is creative and fun, but am thinking of all those people who believe in the 911 conspiracies .. or that Adam Lanza didn't do Sandy Hook, if adults can believe in fiction with corroborative manufactured evidence, then of course a couple of 12 year olds could, especially once immersed in an online world.

In the mythos it says that if you become obsessed with Slenderman you are in danger of becoming his proxy ..

Signs
Good indicators that a person has the Obsession

• Drawing Slender Man symbols on themselves or their surroundings.
• Irrational need to find/research Slender Man despite dangers.
• Wanting to be a Proxy.
• A seer but ignoring suppression tips.
• Emotional love/worship of Slender Man.

http://theslenderman.wikia.com/wiki/The_Obsession

If these girls believed it they certainly weren't alone. This comment nails it IMO.

You all need real psychiatric help. To want to be a proxy of slenderman to have to or wanting to KILL to get closer to him means you are getting closer to being a delusional evil psychopath! TRY to get away from this demeaning obsession! Please Get help before you kill someone!

Discussion: http://theslenderman.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:47553

If you read the discussion there are some interesting posts from posters who identify themselves as children who think they have 'the obsession'.

 

[Zuri]

Could criminal parental liability be prosecuted in Wisconsin due to the ages of the 2 girls or is that only for civil court? TIA

 

[blue22]

And what focus is that? I think the focus is because the majority of Americans are worried about the safety of their children. We have kids being gunned down at school by their classmates. It's a tad bit concerning to some of us.

Lol...and somehow you gather violence is not concerning to me?

It really can't be disputed that our country is more violent than others, or uses more violent imagery than others. That does not mean I'm calling large groups of people violent. I am saying that culturally, we are far more violent than other cultures.

 

[gitana1]

We don't know they were bombarded constantly. Nothing has been said of the extent of their time spent reading.

That's true but I was not replying as to whether these two kids have been bombarded. I keep seeing posts suggesting scary stories didn't harm them. But there is a difference between scary stories and what is available at a glance, quickly and easily, on the internet.

We know these kids had access. We know they posted about the fictional character that encourages people to murder. This was more than stories written for children or a scary movie here and there. Is it the cause? I doubt it can be on its own. But I do have an issue with young people being able to access so much violent content. It is a precarious time in their lives and a time when mental illness often surfaces. Such content can greatly affect fragile minds.

 

[Gardenlady]

America doesn't have a singular, violent culture. Culture encompasses many things. I wasn't raised in a culture that accepts mutilation of a girl's genitals or a culture that accepts domestic violence to a wife. Some people were raised in such cultures. America consider both to be crimes.



JMO

It is alarmingly recent history as far as improvements in domestic violence here in the US. Not all that long ago in some places it was very glossed over. Not to mention spousal rape was legal in many places until very recently.

And laws or not but there are still jurisdictions where these crimes are not taken seriously.


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[Spice]

Do you honestly believe Americans watch the evening news because we glorify violence? Seriously, I sure didn't find the Sandy Hook massacre entertaining or Columbine or this near murder in Wisconsin. And I don't know anybody who enjoys watching a football player getting injured.

No that is not what I am saying and I am confused as to how that is what was ascertained by my post. I never said that American's watch the news because they like violence. I said turn on the news on any given day to SEE how violent we are. I am talking about violent events that are epidemic in nature at this point. They are on the news....

There are a million research papers about the exposure to violence and how it impacts kids. Our "culture" is not violent, it is the activities some individuals chose but no child needs to be exposed to the violence unless done so by the parent.

Our culture IS violent and it glorifies violence, our children are being socialized IN a violent culture. Things do not happen in a vacuum. We can be in denial about it all we want because it makes us feel more in control, but that does not make it not the reality.

btw, baseball, not football, is known as America's pastime.
Baseball WAS "America's Pastime", it is now also Football and Rampage Shootings apparently.
JMO

Bold by Me.

 

[Cherry]

I think that Candace Delong has described the Follie Auduex to the best of anyone's ability. There is no way these two girls on their own would have committed this crime.
But; I hv issues with a 12 yr old being tried as an adult and I have issues with any bond for either of them...or any other sentence then 25 with 10 yr probation. Lwith parole iow but I need to hear a sentence of at least 25. They planned this is murder in the first premeditated all the way, fantasies or not. I'm so glad the judge did not allow bond. My thoughts have been with the victim throughout this week, I will say that. I keep asking her to keep fighting and I think she is, and it's amazing. She will never be the same, this will be a turning point in her young life. It will change her forever. I hope that she can deal.

 

[Gardenlady]

There are? Can you please share them and cite them? I'm interested in reading these academic studies. I'm not being facetious.

There isn't, because evil is a supernatural, unmeasurable quality lol. I will, nevertheless, wait with you to see what the OP has to offer.


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[MyBelle]

How does that appear? They were planning this in the school hallways talking in code. In what way can you place a boundary on that? Who is supposed to know that two students are talking about planning a murder?

Where does the magical school boundary come from, where teachers automatically know the random two talking students are plotting a murder? How many pairs of students are talking in the hallway everyday? They should just know these two, who have never had behavior or academic problems...are plotting their friends murders. Okie dokie.

They needed boundaries on their use of the Internet to begin with. Those boundaries always start at home.

JMO

 

[Ausgirl]

If you read the discussion there are some interesting posts from posters who identify themselves as children who think they have 'the obsession'.

Oooh thanks for that, Mrs G!

And yeah, knowing that this is all connected to a few sites that promote trolling, I do have to wonder if they've been 'encouraged' in some way by sociopathic trolls.

What makes me wonder this is the way AW spoke about it.Like she was reciting something maybe? Might be just reading into it, but it seemed a bit off to me in that regard.

 

[blue22]

That's true but I was not replying as to whether these two kids have been bombarded. I keep seeing posts suggesting scary stories didn't harm them. But there is a difference between scary stories and what is available at a glance, quickly and easily, on the internet.

We know these kids had access. We know they posted about the fictional character that encourages people to murder. This was more than stories written for children or a scary movie here and there. Is it the cause? I doubt it can be on its own. But I do have an issue with young people being able to access so much violent content. It is a precarious time in their lives and a time when mental illness often surfaces. Such content can greatly affect fragile minds.

This is where it gets interesting for me. I asked my niece and she has heard of all this. Her friends have heard of it. This is not something that is unpopular with this age group. I am seeing all over the internet, people saying their children have seen it and heard it.

I agree that there is a problem with children accessing content like this. Absolutely. With that said, none of the other children are committing murders and will likely grow up and live totally normal lives. I think we will come to learn that the content they were participating in, was not as important as the media makes it seem. Dark people seek out dark content. They need to feed darkness. I think something bad would have happened, and the content wouldn't have mattered. They (or at least the leader) would have found something dark to feed those corners in their mind. This is really no different than the people who blamed Marilyn Manson for columbine. Something bad would have happened, even if they weren't listening to dark music.

 

[human]

I agree wholeheartedly. This is GREAT article that speaks to your point exactly. The guns are a byproduct of our violent American culture. Henry Giroux has written some amazing sociological articles.



It's not really about the guns, it's about looking at our American culture critically, and really seeing it and going from there and truly thinking about how this effects our children.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/12/americas-culture-of-violence.html

Other countries sell,plenty of arms. I have a friend from Israel. She said it is incredibly safe there for her as a single woman.

Other countries have access to video games and violent films. The ones I have seen in some Asian language ( not sure, but it was on in a home where young children were watching it), are far more violent than ones in English.

Other countries have children that are more unsupervised than here. Children in France have far more freedom to play and be on their own.

What is wrong with us? Almost everyday there is a new and crazy crime

 

[blue22]

They needed boundaries on their use of the Internet to begin with. Those boundaries always start at home.

JMO

You are assuming there were no boundaries at home. There is no way of knowing that right now.