GUILTY WI - 12-Year-Old Girls Stab Friend 19 Times for Slenderman, Waukesha, 31 May 2014 #1

[JeannaT]

Regarding supervision - I feel like it's hovering to excess to never let a ten or twelve year old go somewhere unsupervised. I sometimes wonder if we are raising a nation of neurotics with the way kids are overly supervised these days. Ten and twelve are old enough to walk around the neighborhood, walk to a store, spend time at the library a movie, etc.


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I agree. I read the most interesting article a few months ago about just that - we are raising kids who can't do for themselves because they've never learned to think and problem solve - an adult has ALWAYS been there to tell them what to do.

So now we have college kids who can't handle their own issues, and they grow up into college graduates who have to have their resumes written by mother and daddy.

The amount of protection and supervision our children receive will stunt their growth forever, in my opinion.

(Although obviously rarely it goes the other way, and parents leave toddlers alone for days. But that's not really what we're discussing here).

 

[MyBelle]

Bold by Me

The police can have you put on a 72 hour psych hold if they deem that you are a danger to yourselves or others. They should be better trained to recognize this, especially if a parent called and is concerned. Not all people are screaming and ranting before going on a murderous rampage. Quite the opposite.


[modsnip] If the Police decide a kid needs to be on psych hold, the parent most certainly would see the same indicators. It isn't the job of police to be a parent. Any parent who willingly exposes their child to violent video games and Internet content shouldn't be surprised if it it results in actual violence.

JMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I wonder if the 23 parents of Sandy Hook feel their surviving children are safe at school if they have any surviving children? Or the people mowed down in the movie theater, or in the halls of Columbine High, or Virginia Tech, or the University of Santa Barbara, or that school where the kid ran around stabbing everyone recently,or the mall in Nebraska or Seattle Pacific University shooting, which occurred less than 24 hours ago. Or.........(insert the next one here).

We may not be Beirut but we have our own kind of war going on in America and I feel that the longer that we deny that we are a violent culture, socializing our children to glorify violence and therby normalizing it, we will continue to see this violence and more. We are our own worst enemy that way.

We point the finger at everyone else while our house is a mess.
JMO.

Sorry we still are safe here. Very safe. Crazy happens in every culture.

 

[Spice]

Sorry we still are safe here. Very safe. Crazy happens in every culture.

That is a matter of opinion and I do not consider America this great example of civility and safety. Not by a long shot. But that is just me.

 

[popsicle]

Do you honestly believe Americans watch the evening news because we glorify violence? Seriously, I sure didn't find the Sandy Hook massacre entertaining or Columbine or this near murder in Wisconsin. And I don't know anybody who enjoys watching a football player getting injured.

There are a million research papers about the exposure to violence and how it impacts kids. Our "culture" is not violent, it is the activities some individuals chose but no child needs to be exposed to the violence unless done so by the parent.

btw, baseball, not football, is known as America's pastime.

JMO

As well, boxing is a violent sport.... in football, people get injured. jmo

 

[MyBelle]

I agree. I read the most interesting article a few months ago about just that - we are raising kids who can't do for themselves because they've never learned to think and problem solve - an adult has ALWAYS been there to tell them what to do.

So now we have college kids who can't handle their own issues, and they grow up into college graduates who have to have their resumes written by mother and daddy.

The amount of protection and supervision our children receive will stunt their growth forever, in my opinion.

(Although obviously rarely it goes the other way, and parents leave toddlers alone for days. But that's not really what we're discussing here).

BBM. There is no "we." My kids managed to make it to productive careers without my resume assistance.

I seriously doubt the two 12-year-olds charged with premeditated murder in this case are there because they have had too much adult supervision.

JMO

 

[Gardenlady]

I won't for fear of kidnapping. Ilene Mischeloff disappeared from my neighborhood. Don't care if that makes me a helicopter parent, I know where my child is. There are plenty of other ways to be independent.

I totally understand that, I really do. Any of us who are touched by a violent crime in a personal way - law ether ourselves, a family member or friend, or even just living near where one took place - find ourselves changed. IMO, it's almost a form of PTSD, and I say that as someone who is diagnosed with PTSD, after a domestic violence incident many years ago!

But what I am addressing is the way supervision and raising kids has changed not on an individual level, based on an understandable response to being touched by crime, but on a societal level. Even people who live in the safest areas parent as if they are living in a war zone, or as if their children are made of glass. For some reason it seems like not just individuals suffering PTSD as a result of experience with a crime, but there is some societal level PTSD going in even among people who haven't been affected, and despite the fact that statistically speaking their kids are not at risk.




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[MyBelle]

Oh Please what? You said "What can the police do?" and I responded to you. I said IF the parent calls the POLICE with a concern they can assess and put the child on a 72 hour psych hold, that is part of their job. No one is saying the police are supposed to "parent." Jeeezz.

Why the vitriol? And why the constant misconstruing of my posts?

The police in my city do not assess or place a 12-year-old on a 72 hour psych hold. If they have concerns, they will contact Child Protective Services.

I'm not being vitriolic, I'm trying to stay on topic.

 

[Spice]

The police in my city do not assess or place a 12-year-old on a 72 hour psych hold. If they have concerns, they will contact Child Protective Services.

I'm not being vitriolic, I'm trying to stay on topic.

[modsnip] If you had a child that was showing signs of violence and out of your control, you would have the ability to call the police, who would assess them and if deemed a danger to themselves or others, would be put on a 72 psych hold to be helped, observed, and stabilized.

And yes, the police in your city can and do do the same. Its common practice nation wide. Child Protective Services is called in cases of abuse or neglect by parent to child and AFTER the fact in the case of a psych hold. Child Protective Services is not on standby for that. Ambulances and Police are.

I am on topic, I was responding to your post and declaration that the police could not do anything to help or stop a child exhibiting dangerous behavior. They can and do, especially when a parent calls. Nationwide.

 

[Spice]

really low blow. you have no idea who I, or anyone else on this message board is, or what our history is with violence.

not cool

Can you explain what you mean? Because I am not sure and do not know how to respond. What is the "low blow" stating that parents that have been victimized by mass shooters and have lost their children may not feel that America is safe? That is the low blow? How?

ETA: And if there is something that I am not aware of and my opinion has upset someone is some way, then I do apologize. It was not meant to do so.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Gardenlady I agree, kids aren't allowed to do half the things we took for granted as kids that helped us test our independence. The imaginary world of our childhoods which we used to take to the local creek, or the woods behind out houses has now gone online. Kids used to explore the physical world, but now they explore a digital one. This case if anything exposes the illusion of how much 'safer' that option is.

 

[MyBelle]

I totally understand that, I really do. Any of us who are touched by a violent crime in a personal way - law ether ourselves, a family member or friend, or even just living near where one took place - find ourselves changed. IMO, it's almost a form of PTSD, and I say that as someone who is diagnosed with PTSD, after a domestic violence incident many years ago!

But what I am addressing is the way supervision and raising kids has changed not on an individual level, based on an understandable response to being touched by crime, but on a societal level. Even people who live in the safest areas parent as if they are living in a war zone, or as if their children are made of glass. For some reason it seems like not just individuals suffering PTSD as a result of experience with a crime, but there is some societal level PTSD going in even among people who haven't been affected, and despite the fact that statistically speaking their kids are not at risk.

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Every kid is at risk of being affected of violence. The victim in this case did nothing wrong. Her parents entrusted their child to the other parent to keep her safe. I doubt they realized the other parent intended to drop the girls off at the forest so they could "play."


JMO

 

[Salem]

ENOUGH! This is not the PP and this weighing country against country doesn't belong here. You've stated your opinions, now move on.

Salem

 

[popsicle]

OMG. If you had a child that was showing signs of violence and out of your control, you would have the ability to call the police, who would assess them and if deemed a danger to themselves or others, would be put on a 72 psych hold to be helped, observed, and stabilized.

And yes, the police in your city can and do do the same. Its common practice nation wide. Child Protective Services is called in cases of abuse or neglect by parent to child and AFTER the fact in the case of a psych hold. Child Protective Services is not on standby for that. Ambulances and Police are.

I am on topic, I was responding to your post and declaration that the police could not do anything to help or stop a child exhibiting dangerous behavior. They can and do, especially when a parent calls. Nationwide.

Actually, here the police take them to the 24hr emerg mental health place and then they go to the hosp if approp.

 

[MyBelle]

OMG. If you had a child that was showing signs of violence and out of your control, you would have the ability to call the police, who would assess them and if deemed a danger to themselves or others, would be put on a 72 psych hold to be helped, observed, and stabilized.

And yes, the police in your city can and do do the same. Its common practice nation wide. Child Protective Services is called in cases of abuse or neglect by parent to child and AFTER the fact in the case of a psych hold. Child Protective Services is not on standby for that. Ambulances and Police are.

I am on topic, I was responding to your post and declaration that the police could not do anything to help or stop a child exhibiting dangerous behavior. They can and do, especially when a parent calls. Nationwide.

I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it. Police in my city do not "assess" children. If the child has committed a crime, they will take the child into custody but they don't "assess" for mental health issues. If the child is not physically injured, they won't call a rescue squad. I don't know how I can say it any differently. Police in my metro area of 1+million people are not substitutes for doctors or parents.

JMO

 

[JLSChook]

Really? You guys are bickering over the word evil? Seriously?

EVERYBODY may assign their own meaning to the word evil, or any other word for that matter. People think differently, that's okay - especially here.

Stop bickering. If you have a problem, alert the post and move on. Don't take it upon yourself to correct others. That's not your job. Just alert and move on.

Salem

Sorry. :blushing: I am so far behind and will never catch up.

 

[MyBelle]

Actually, here the police take them to the 24hr emerg mental health place and then they go to the hosp if approp.

Our police won't get involved unless a crime is involved or suicide is being threatened.

 

[Salem]

Our police won't get involved unless a crime is involved or suicide is being threatened.

Where is your link for this?

Salem

 

[MyBelle]

Where is your link for this?

Salem

This applies to the entire state. If you call 9-1-1 for police about a mentally disturbed child, they will give you this number:

Youth with mental illness can become very angry,sad,or even suicidal.
It is important to plan what to do in an emergency. Make sure emer-
gency phone numbers are easily accessible.
If your child has a crisis and you can’t help him or her calm down,a 24-
hour service called CARES can come to your child.You can call CARES
at 800-345-9049 or 773-523-4504 (TTY).

CARES stands for Crisis and
Referral Entry Services.

CARES will send a crisis worker to your house to evaluate your child.
The crisis worker,from a program called SASS,will talk with you and
your child. SASS stands for Screening,Assessment and Support
Services.

Keep the CARES phone number where you can find it quickly
in an emergency

http://www.isbe.state.il.us/pdf/school_health/mh-res-trtmnt-hdbk01-12.pdf

 

[Salem]

Please stop bickering in here. If it continues, I will be issuing TOs.

No one person is right. Agree to disagree, or ignore, but stop being snarky and stop trying to get the last word in.

Be respectful of each other.

Salem