GUILTY WI - 12-Year-Old Girls Stab Friend 19 Times for Slenderman, Waukesha, 31 May 2014 #1

[blue22]

When I read that, I can see the train coming. And they're standing right on the tracks.

Everyone already gets that she's a person. Everyone already has incredible sympathy for her - I haven't seen one single person without empathy for her.

I haven't walked in their shoes - but I HAVE seen enough lives ruined by being in the spotlight for being a victim, and it's not positive. And here come the media sharks.

Well, you're definitely entitled to your opinion.

Since they are true victims, I just can't see how picking apart their statements is appropriate here.

 

[JeannaT]

Well, you're definitely entitled to your opinion.

Since they are true victims, I just can't see how picking apart their statements is appropriate here.

We won't know the damage this has done until someone publishes a "where are they now" thing in 30 years. It is interesting, though, to google the lives of public victims.

Media glare does NOT have a positive effect. Attracting this insatiable media to their situation will not be a net positive for her.

 

[gitana1]

There are? Can you please share them and cite them? I'm interested in reading these academic studies. I'm not being facetious.

I'll share:

RESEARCH ON EVIL :
AN ANNOTATED BIBLIOGRAPHY
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCsQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iasc-culture.org%2FTHR%2Farchives%2FEvil%2F2.2KBibliography.pdf&ei=Hl-SU7O6BsvroATo-oKQDg&usg=AFQjCNEeQ62-9zzU-zWkFocUwcMpf8oJ4w&sig2=qgrdkikuDKMR2LqVibSqhA&bvm=bv.68445247,d.cGU

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[SIZE=+1]THE EVIL GENE[/SIZE][SIZE=-2]
by Frank Stephenson[/SIZE] [FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1] Could a monster be swimming in the human gene pool? http://rinr.fsu.edu/spring96/features/evil.html
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A 2002 study found that a particular variation of a gene predicted antisocial behavior in men who were mistreated as children. The gene controls whether we produce an enzyme called monoamine oxidase A (MAOA), which at low levels has been linked to aggression in mice. The researchers found that boys who were neglected and who possessed a variation of the gene that produced low levels of MAOA were more likely to develop antisocial personality disorder, commit crimes and grow up to have a violent disposition. But those living in a similar environment who produced more of the enzyme rarely developed these problems.
Psychopaths are arguably the evilest of the evildoers. A study published in August 2010 looked at psychopathic tendencies in teenagers with low socioeconomic resources. The researchers found that adolescents who had a variation of another gene, which contributes to how quickly serotonin is recycled in the brain and which has been linked to hostile behavior in children, were more likely to exhibit signs of psychopathy.http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-genes-make-people-evil/

I know some of you are saying or inferring that the term "evil" is really about a supernatural or inherently religious belief. But that's not the only definition in the dictionary and we don't get to dictate definitions to everyone else, respectfully.

I believe in evil. I believe wholeheartedly that some people are evil. But as to whether they are "born that way", like some studies suggest, I'm not sure. I think that's probably too simplistic. Instead, I think the studies appear to show that some people are born with more of a propensity to be evil, than others.

I also think it is risky to both state that people are born that way and to pretend that evil does not exist or is just some superstitious, unthinking hocus pocus. The term denotes choice, really, even for those who some believe are born that way. It infers that the person who is evil knows right from wrong, can ultimately control themselves, but chooses not, due to a desire to benefit themselves or due to pleasure derived from the suffering of others.

If we are going to state that no one is evil, then I think we risk a slippery slope of unaccountability. Because the alternative to that is a manifestation of something the criminal cannot control, about how their brain works and what they do with that brain.

The guy who murdered the Groene family - he's evil. He could control himself but chose not to. Hitler, Mengele, they were evil. They chose to do what they did. Their conduct was not a compulsion. It was not mandated by their brains.

Same with the monster who killed Susan Powell and her sons. And scott peterson. And casey anthony. There are so many examples of truly evil people, IMO.

Can children be evil? I certainly think they can do evil things. But I also think that depending on age and the severity of the crime, they are more amendable to rehabilitation, to actual change, to learning empathy, than others. Thus, the 8 year old who shoots his father dead because he finds his dad domineering may have a better chance of rehabilitation than a 15 year old who plans the gruesome and more up close and personal bludgeoning murders of his grandparents for fun (edmund kemper).

I'm not willing to give up on kids so easily. Even the most horrible ones. However, these girls scare me because they have a flat affect that may not be related to mental illness. To me it is too coincidental that two psychotic kids would meet and become friends and plan a murder and carry it out all the while no one realized they were both insane.

Nevertheless, I myself did a couple of horrible things at age 12 (nothing like murder), that I have never forgotten. Looking back, I understand why I did what I did, and I realize that it is possible for even an empathetic or sensitive kid do to something horrible that they later regret very much.

Of course when you start getting into the realm of pre-planning and serious criminal acts, like sexual assault, murder, then society has a need and a right to weigh the danger of release against the hope of rehabilitation.
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[blue22]

We won't know the damage this has done until someone publishes a "where are they now" thing in 30 years. It is interesting, though, to google the lives of public victims.

Media glare does NOT have a positive effect. Attracting this insatiable media to their situation will not be a net positive for her.

Okay, great.

However, they are victims and in light of everything you've said, don't you think WE should leave them alone?

 

[gitana1]

Amazing. It seems almost too much to hope for that someone stabbed 19 times could be released from the hospital in less than a week. Sounds like she is very much completely physically on the mend. Great for her.

I'm a little disturbed by the family statement though - it reads like an obituary. Seems to me it's best to say thanks so very much for everyone's outporing of caring, she's doing unexpectedly well, we'd like this time to recover in private so she can attempt to continue her life in as normally a way as possible. It's just never a good thing to live life as a child in the spotlight.

I'm especially concerned about this paragraph:

"She has a love for life and the dramatic sparkle of any typical 12 year old girl in her eye. Although the sparkle has dimmed for now, we know that it will be back again brighter than ever because of the amazing support she has worldwide."

Families don't ever seem to realize that life in the public spotlight NEVER works out for the kids. The faster she can get back to a successful private life pursuing her interests, the better. "Amazing worldwide support" is actually a curse.

I love it because it allows the world to focus on the victim instead of the criminals. If we had more of this and less attention on who the criminals are, we'd probably have less people who think it's cool to try to become a killer and get their names and photos in the paper.

In a way, the media sometimes glorifies the criminals and ignores the victims. This gal's family reminded the world who she, the innocent victim, is. That's cool.

 

[human]

It'd be easy to track them down in that town anyway. So they're still getting donations then are they? What for exactly .. medical bills? I think they're going to cash in. I see Dr Phil as the most probable candidate, plus you know .. once he's exploited the girl's story he can offer her free counselling and everyone can feel good about what just occurred for the sake of $$$ and ratings.

The medical bills can be outrageous and I am sure they are. And counseling? Who will pay for that?

 

[LinasK]

It is actually ASL- age sex location

Okay, well we've had the name age location talk since she got Instagram after I discovered she'd posted her school schedule.

 

[JeannaT]

Okay, great.

However, they are victims and in light of everything you've said, don't you think WE should leave them alone?

YES. Yes I do. I certainly have no intention whatsoever on following up on this girl's identity or contacting her, or posting to her or her family or in any way making it apparent that she's public.

YES. I think we should all look away from her, and leave her alone, and when the trial of these perps comes up maybe follow that for those interested - but let this girl live her life out privately.

 

[blue22]

YES. Yes I do. I certainly have no intention whatsoever on following up on this girl's identity or contacting her, or posting to her or her family or in any way making it apparent that she's public.

YES. I think we should all look away from her, and leave her alone, and when the trial of these perps comes up maybe follow that for those interested - but let this girl live her life out privately.

But their statements are free game to pick apart and analyze? The WHOLE family are victims.

Anyway, moving on.

 

[JeannaT]

I love it because it allows the world to focus on the victim instead of the criminals. If we had more of this and less attention on who the criminals are, we'd probably have less people who think it's cool to try to become a killer and get their names and photos in the paper.

In a way, the media sometimes glorifies the criminals and ignores the victims. This gal's family reminded the world who she, the innocent victim, is. That's cool.

I think we shouldn't focus on the victim, gitana. I'm a little uncomfortable with my focus on the perp - ideally, I think we shouldn't focus on any of it except to learn from it in anonymous crime studies and statistics.

But as it is, I'm less negative on focusing on perps because I really don't care all that much if they have negative impact.

I think maybe the truth here, is that it seems intuitive that a large public focus on the victim would help them - but it DOESN'T. The media glare for a victim does not help, despite what seems like it would. The media focus of strangers googling this story doesn't have the same affect - at all - of neighbors saying oh I'm so sorry that happened, so happy you're doing well. That's positive.

This creepy stranger thing of people who don't know any of these people writing to them and knowing them and following them is negative.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

What exactly in their statement, is disturbing? Seriously. I can't find a reason why anyone would be disturbed with what they said.

If my child had experienced something like this and they were just fodder for news stories and media spectacle, I think my instinct would be to humanize and remind people this is a person.

I haven't walked in their shoes. I won't be foolish enough to be "disturbed" by a loving parental statement. They are VICTIMS and not up for speculation.

No one is speculating about the fact that they are victims but when they make a statement people have opinions and thoughts about that and are allowed to share.

I really wish that they would say nothing and just protect this girls privacy and let her try and heal and get strong and move forward in private. Speaking about her will not help her in the long run.

 

[blue22]

No one is speculating about the fact that they are victims but when they make a statement people have opinions and thoughts about that and are allowed to share.

I really wish that they would say nothing and just protect this girls privacy and let her try and heal and get strong and move forward in private. Speaking about her will not help her in the long run.

I"m not saying people can't have opinions about what the family says. I'm simply saying that it feels really inappropriate to point out the things we feel they might be doing wrong. Inappropriate to do it here.I think we should move on. From the victim, from the victim's family. If speaking about her won't help, how does up speaking about her and the situation here help? It doesn't.

JMO.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

The medical bills can be outrageous and I am sure they are. And counseling? Who will pay for that?

BBM: Dr Phil most likely .. but yes, I forget about the medical bills thing sometimes. I'm not trying to be mean, I just think it's a bad idea to talk to the media too much, or let her go in front of cameras etc and very much hope they don't.

 

[nightwatch]

When I read that, I can see the train coming. And they're standing right on the tracks.

Everyone already gets that she's a person. Everyone already has incredible sympathy for her - I haven't seen one single person without empathy for her.

I haven't walked in their shoes - but I HAVE seen enough lives ruined by being in the spotlight for being a victim, and it's not positive. And here come the media sharks.

Media sharks or offers for made for tv movie. Jmo

ciao

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I"m not saying people can't have opinions about what the family says. I'm simply saying that it feels really inappropriate to point out the things we feel they might be doing wrong. Inappropriate to do it here.I think we should move on. From the victim, from the victim's family. If speaking about her won't help, how does up speaking about her and the situation here help? It doesn't.

JMO.

Well that is an opinion but we may not all feel the same.
No one is trashing them. But when you make a public statement you are open to public scrutiny. I am praying that that is the last we hear from them. Don't go public. Don't say anything more. Just help the girl heal and be there for her. Leave the rest alone.

 

[Gardenlady]

BBM: Dr Phil most likely .. but yes, I forget about the medical bills thing sometimes. I'm not trying to be mean, I just think it's a bad idea to talk to the media too much, or let her go in front of cameras etc and very much hope they don't.

It's another thing we don't do well here - coverage for health care, including mental health care. So people will sell their stories to pay for it, pay for lost wages (because in general our work leave-time sucks here too), etc. probably not a good idea in terms of attention, and it unfortunately benefits the vultures but it's the fault of the system we have set up here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[blue22]

Well that is an opinion but we may not all feel the same.
No one is trashing them. But when you make a public statement you are open to public scrutiny. I am praying that that is the last we hear from them. Don't go public. Don't say anything more. Just help the girl heal and be there for her. Leave the rest alone.

If they didn't make a statement, they would still receive public scrutiny. They have been thrust into this, and they can't avoid scrutiny right now. That doesn't mean we, here have to join in the scrutiny.

It seems to me, people part of a victim friendly site would seek to be above that.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Sometimes I think it would be good to have a 'what to do if you find yourself connected to a high profile crime' thread here somewhere, where there are links to community resources, professional PR advice (as in .. how to make all your pages private or take them down temporarily, or how to release a short statement to say thanks), how to keep media off your back and what to say to them etc .. Don't we see it all the time, family of the victims, family of the accused etc having to put up with all kinds of drama when they're trying to cope with a life changing tragedy in their lives. I think people in these situations need professional advice. I mean imagine it, one day you're going about your daily business, next thing your family member and private business is being splashed all over HLN etc.

ETA: I mean I know there are victims resources areas etc, but the family of the accused needs help too, maybe more.

 

[katydid23]

What? When they did it, they were playing Hide and Seek in the woods. This proves that they played outside.

The fact that there were three of them that got along and were best friends proves that they could be friendly.

An otherwise normal seeming child screams sociopath to me.

There should be NOTHING wrong or seemingly wrong with a couple of girls headed out to play in the woods.

BBM

UNless of course, two of those girls had been painstakingly plotting the stabbing murder of the third girl.

 

[blue22]

BBM

UNless of course, two of those girls had been painstakingly plotting the stabbing murder of the third girl.

Actually, they were not headed to the woods that anyone but them knew of. They got permission from parents to walk to the park.

Ets: sorry, quoted the wrong person. Not sure what happened there.