Identified! WI - Delafield, WhtMale, UP7632, car stolen, lighter, Sep'77 - John Lindberg Scott

[Cubby]

I stopped at the Wheaton Library this morning to inquire if there was any way to get a list of books not returned from August and September of 1977. I specifically inquired about month since we don't have a name or book titles to work with. I was told the library began using computers in 1995 and anything prior to that would be difficult to trace.

We'll keep looking.

 

[carbuff]

I stopped at the Wheaton Library this morning to inquire if there was any way to get a list of books not returned from August and September of 1977. I specifically inquired about month since we don't have a name or book titles to work with. I was told the library began using computers in 1995 and anything prior to that would be difficult to trace.

We'll keep looking.

This just occurred to me -- it might be worth asking if any of the librarians who worked there in 1977 are still around and would be willing to talk to you. Librarians are generally observant people with good memories, and might well remember something as anomalous as having some of their books involved in a fatal police chase.

 

[Cubby]

I don't believe that the books were in the car ever made it into the news back in 1977, so I don't think anything about the books would really stand out.

IIRC, masnitram linked the few MSM articles about this case upthread. I'll try and find and bump the posts bringing them current.

 

[Cubby]

I couldn't find the msm links masnitram posted. Perhaps when he gets back he can post them as he has time. I think the info on the books was only from speaking with the detective, not in any msm info.

 

[carbuff]

I don't believe that the books were in the car ever made it into the news back in 1977, so I don't think anything about the books would really stand out.

IIRC, masnitram linked the few MSM articles about this case upthread. I'll try and find and bump the posts bringing them current.

I saw the articles when they were first posted. Interesting stuff. But I wasn't thinking of the news. Librarians just know things; even if the police didn't bring their books back to them, they might have heard other tales of what went on behind the scenes, in minor regional or local newsletters, etc.

If you don't think it's worth the effort, then of course I'm not going to tell you to do it. It was just a thought.

 

[masnitram]

Hey guys/gals- I'm at work right now, but when I get home I'll see if I can locate the articles. I think, if my memory serves me right, that the links I posted are now fee based and no longer accessible like before.

When I spoke to the detective he indicated that there wasn't/isn't any listing of specific titles and where the books may have came from. He did indicate that "Wheaton" was noted in the report, but not in a way that was definitive.

Cubby- I did send the information you and discussed to the detective and am waiting on a reply.

I couldn't find the msm links masnitram posted. Perhaps when he gets back he can post them as he has time. I think the info on the books was only from speaking with the detective, not in any msm info.

I saw the articles when they were first posted. Interesting stuff. But I wasn't thinking of the news. Librarians just know things; even if the police didn't bring their books back to them, they might have heard other tales of what went on behind the scenes, in minor regional or local newsletters, etc.

If you don't think it's worth the effort, then of course I'm not going to tell you to do it. It was just a thought.

 

[carbuff]

Thanks for clarifying, Masnitram.

 

[Cubby]

I saw the articles when they were first posted. Interesting stuff. But I wasn't thinking of the news. Librarians just know things; even if the police didn't bring their books back to them, they might have heard other tales of what went on behind the scenes, in minor regional or local newsletters, etc.

If you don't think it's worth the effort, then of course I'm not going to tell you to do it. It was just a thought.

Let me think on it.... I've been pondering for a few years how to find people in Wheaton who were in social services back in 1977 when it is believed this John Doe went through Wheaton.

A librarian might know of additional resources to seek.
They might also offer suggestions for me to research.... I'm in the vicinity of the library weekly now, so will check it out within the next week or two. Maybe there is something in the local paper in Wheaton that the WI detectives didn't catch back in '77.

 

[tatertot]

Any thoughts on this newly-added MP in NamUs? His date of last contact was April 14, 1976. While his statistics are mostly within the UID's ranges, what caught my eye was the similar style of dress (presuming the UID was dressed as he typically would.) The downside is the MP had a scar on his lip, which might coincide with the UID's upper dental teeth but is not mentioned in the NamUs report.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/19560/51/

UID links: https://identifyus.org/cases/full_report/7632
https://identifyus.org/cases/full_report/7632
**WARNING: POST-MORTEM PHOTOS** http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightUSA/index.php?showtopic=13133&st=0&
**WARNING: POST-MORTEM**

 

[carbuff]

Hm, interesting. The clothing really is very similar.

 

[CarlK90245]

Comparing the two, there are some similarities. But I don't see him as being the same guy, though I can't quite pinpoint why.

He looks to have a very large blemish, mole, cyst, or scar (or something like that) on the left side if his chin. That looks large enough that I would think it would still be there if he was our John Doe. Also if you zoom in, he appears to have significant acne scarring on his cheeks and jawline.

There is no mention of that though, only that he has a "lip scar". But I don't see the lip scar when I zoom in.

 

[carbuff]

Comparing the two, there are some similarities. But I don't see him as being the same guy, though I can't quite pinpoint why.

He looks to have a very large blemish, mole, cyst, or scar (or something like that) on the left side if his chin. That looks large enough that I would think it would still be there if he was our John Doe. Also if you zoom in, he appears to have significant acne scarring on his cheeks and jawline.

There is no mention of that though, only that he has a "lip scar". But I don't see the lip scar when I zoom in.

Unless they're referring to that whole area of his face as the "lip."

I wasn't sure that mark wasn't on the photo rather than his face. There's another mark just over his shoulder, kind of at the edge of the building, that looks like it may have had water spots or something.

 

[deca]

Well, I guess it wouldn't hurt to post this. I don't really follow this case although I have skimmed through some of it.
This MP is from Canada- their new MP site doesn't have much info.

Norman Welsh
Missing July 1976
Mental Health Issue (implied)
partial dental plate
height 72 inches
age missing: 32 (off from UID)
https://secure.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/missing-disparus/case-dossier.jsf?case=2009002699&id=1

 

[tatertot]

Deca, that's a good possible MP. What is really interesting is the MP was last seen wearing "blue, grey, checkered knitted pants" and the UID was found wearing gray and white checkered pants with the label from Gaedes in Wheaton, Illinois.

It's questionable whether they're the same pair and whether he could have bought US-made pants in Canada prior to his disappearance, but it's also possible he arrived in America and acquired a similar pair if that was his usual style of dress.

 

[nerosleuth]

Here's a thought about the MP from Canada that Tatertot and Deca posted.

There's a possibility that Canadian LE agencies could have the fingerprints of the MP from Canada if he ever was taken into police custody.

Has the fingerprints from the Delafield Unid ever been run through Canadian LE databases for any matches to fingerprints currently on file with Canadian LE agencies?

 

[masnitram]

Here's a thought about the MP from Canada that Tatertot and Deca posted.

There's a possibility that Canadian LE agencies could have the fingerprints of the MP from Canada if he ever was taken into police custody.

Has the fingerprints from the Delafield Unid ever been run through Canadian LE databases for any matches to fingerprints currently on file with Canadian LE agencies?

Unfortunately the finger print card was reportedly lost years ago. There is hope for this John Doe, he is slated to be exhumed in the near future in hopes of retrieving DNA, I may have posted an article about this earlier here.

 

[carbuff]

Deca, that's a good possible MP. What is really interesting is the MP was last seen wearing "blue, grey, checkered knitted pants" and the UID was found wearing gray and white checkered pants with the label from Gaedes in Wheaton, Illinois.

It's questionable whether they're the same pair and whether he could have bought US-made pants in Canada prior to his disappearance, but it's also possible he arrived in America and acquired a similar pair if that was his usual style of dress.

St. Catharines Ontario, where Norman is from, is only a short distance over the US border and only 8 hours from Wheaton: https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...4lMOiDFabRGMW7A9oA&oq=st.+cath&t=h&mra=ls&z=7

It's quite common for people from both sides of the border to go back and forth for shopping, casinos, relatives, etc. He could easily have bought the pants on a previous visit.

Here's his Doenet page: http://doenetwork.org/cases/4143dmon.html

 

[deca]

There is the time difference of about a year from the MP's LKA to the doe's death. Could it be he was upset with his family/community about being put in the mental hospital and decided not to return? But how was he supporting himself for the year? Where was he living?
Wish I knew more about Norman. Did he have a trade of some sort? What was "the incident" that caused Norman to be taking to the hospital in the middle of his vacation?

Like I said on my earlier post- I have really followed this case. Did Delafield Doe look well groomed and taken care of?

 

[carbuff]

There is the time difference of about a year from the MP's LKA to the doe's death. Could it be he was upset with his family/community about being put in the mental hospital and decided not to return? But how was he supporting himself for the year? Where was he living?
Wish I knew more about Norman. Did he have a trade of some sort? What was "the incident" that caused Norman to be taking to the hospital in the middle of his vacation?

Like I said on my earlier post- I have really followed this case. Did Delafield Doe look well groomed and taken care of?

One possibility: if he was having a psychotic break, he could have wound up in another mental hospital and been either unwilling or unable to give his name.

 

[masnitram]

One possibility: if he was having a psychotic break, he could have wound up in another mental hospital and been either unwilling or unable to give his name.

The detective told me that there weren't any escaped prisoners, patients, military, or missing persons that fit the description in '77. Not that it isn't impossible that someone slipped through the cracks...

A couple of things regarding Mr. Welsh that we need to figure out.

1. Uncircumcised
2. Scar on the backside of the right hand over the thumb.
3. Small scar on the upper, outer edge of the left knee.

The detective feels strongly that the John Doe was local, while they very could be wrong, Canada may be a stretch...though not impossible.