WI - Frank Jude beaten by off-duty Mikwaukee PD officers, 2004

[duke]

But where is the proof that the badge was taken?There isn't any anI knew what the Jury was going to come back with when I found out they were all white.Street justice as you call it is fine. But they went overboard. And you know that if it you or I with some buddies doing the same thing. The key would be thrown away. It is called the Code of Silence that got these 3 off. But Bartlett is still not out of th ewood. maybe then Justice will be done. And he also faces calling a Bomb Threat in to the station. Yep sounds like one of Great Cop.

True, there was no proof the badge was stolen, but it didn't walk away, and they didn't beat him for no reason. I just find it difficult to sympathize with a guy who goes to someone's home, causes problems, and gets beat up as a result. I'll save my compassion for the innocents who are victimized by real criminals through no fault of their own.
Maybe the "all white" jury you're so quick to dismiss felt the same way. Don't ask me to send hard-working police officers to prison for pummeling a guy who probably deserved it.

 

[JDB]

True, there was no proof the badge was stolen, but it didn't walk away, and they didn't beat him for no reason. I just find it difficult to sympathize with a guy who goes to someone's home, causes problems, and gets beat up as a result. I'll save my compassion for the innocents who are victimized by real criminals through no fault of their own.
Maybe the "all white" jury you're so quick to dismiss felt the same way. Don't ask me to send hard-working police officers to prison for pummeling a guy who probably deserved it.

Ohh there is the Key word Proably.You tell me a man cuffed an laying on the ground and getting Kick there was a reason for that???ANd what problems did he cause. At trial it was stated he was on his way out because he felt uncomfortable.Now what would you say if someone slipped and said they Found the badge inside the house. And how about Spengler lying to an officer called out about the officer partner was in pursuit of the other guy. Can you say the police knew they were all wrong kicking Jude and were trying to cover it up.

 

[duke]

Ohh there is the Key word Proably.You tell me a man cuffed an laying on the ground and getting Kick there was a reason for that???ANd what problems did he cause. At trial it was stated he was on his way out because he felt uncomfortable.Now what would you say if someone slipped and said they Found the badge inside the house. And how about Spengler lying to an officer called out about the officer partner was in pursuit of the other guy. Can you say the police knew they were all wrong kicking Jude and were trying to cover it up.

Again, they didn't beat him up for no reason. He stole the badge, that's what created the whole problem. Sometimes when you look for trouble, you find it.

I agree that the beating was excessive and that the cops are probably not being forthright. But the bottom line for me is; Who really cares? The cops beat up some punk who stole one of their badges. Justice served, problem solved, let's move on. We've got real victims to concern ourselves with.

 

[JDB]

Again, they didn't beat him up for no reason. He stole the badge, that's what created the whole problem. Sometimes when you look for trouble, you find it.

I agree that the beating was excessive and that the cops are probably not being forthright. But the bottom line for me is; Who really cares? The cops beat up some punk who stole one of their badges. Justice served, problem solved, let's move on. We've got real victims to concern ourselves with.

Ohh I have moved on. But they did not find the badge on him.And he never had a chance to leave the yard.Unless Jude also does Magic where is the badge?? OHHH I know his friend had it. SO why did the Police not beat him almost to death? Why becuase by that time the on duty police were at the scene and being told lies after lies by these 3 Cops that gives policeman all over the country a bad name.

 

[duke]

Ohh I have moved on. But they did not find the badge on him.And he never had a chance to leave the yard.Unless Jude also does Magic where is the badge?? OHHH I know his friend had it. SO why did the Police not beat him almost to death? Why becuase by that time the on duty police were at the scene and being told lies after lies by these 3 Cops that gives policeman all over the country a bad name.

I wasn't asking you personally to move on. I was saying that we as a community should move on when things like this happen rather than waste the time and money putting police officers on trial for beating up a thief.

And yes, I think his friend did have it and got away without a beating because the other officers did show up. I don't think we disagree very much on what happened. I just don't think they ought to go to prison for it. Send them to some training classes, put them on desk duty for awhile, be done with it. Let's not ruin the lives of three police officers over this guy.

 

[JDB]

I wasn't asking you personally to move on. I was saying that we as a community should move on when things like this happen rather than waste the time and money putting police officers on trial for beating up a thief.

And yes, I think his friend did have it and got away without a beating because the other officers did show up. I don't think we disagree very much on what happened. I just don't think they ought to go to prison for it. Send them to some training classes, put them on desk duty for awhile, be done with it. Let's not ruin the lives of three police officers over this guy.

NAh better yet. Let these three understand what they did was wrong. No longer a policeman after all Bartlet had already had problems being on duty. Let them get a real job.None of these three should ever wear the badge of Honor again. And you know they will all be paying through the nose during the civil suit which I am glad.

 

[duke]

NAh better yet. Let these three understand what they did was wrong. No longer a policeman after all Bartlet had already had problems being on duty. Let them get a real job.None of these three should ever wear the badge of Honor again. And you know they will all be paying through the nose during the civil suit which I am glad.

So, being a policeman isn't "a real job"? Surely, you misspoke.

I doubt that any of these officers will face personal litigation. Most likely the city will and, if found liable, the taxpayers of Milwaukee will pay "through the nose". All of it totally unnecessary.

 

[JDB]

So, being a policeman isn't "a real job"? Surely, you misspoke.

I doubt that any of these officers will face personal litigation. Most likely the city will and, if found liable, the taxpayers of Milwaukee will pay "through the nose". All of it totally unnecessary.

No it is one of the most dangerous Jobs. But these three clowns do not deserve to be on th e force any longer

 

[BhamMama]

I wasn't asking you personally to move on. I was saying that we as a community should move on when things like this happen rather than waste the time and money putting police officers on trial for beating up a thief.

And yes, I think his friend did have it and got away without a beating because the other officers did show up. I don't think we disagree very much on what happened. I just don't think they ought to go to prison for it. Send them to some training classes, put them on desk duty for awhile, be done with it. Let's not ruin the lives of three police officers over this guy.

So it's okay for an innocent man to have his face crushed in as long as somebody paid? Guilt by association?

Training classes dont change bullies, legal ones or not. They deserved jail time for lying, defacing the badge, and for nearly killing that man! That badge don't make them above the law, nor does it make them better human beings...they proved that. They are no better than the 'thugs' they are suppose to keep off our streets if thats the thinking.

You better believe I'd sue them if they got off if it were my child. He looks different, his friend is a thief, but he's the only one we could catch...yeah sound logic!

 

[duke]

So it's okay for an innocent man to have his face crushed in as long as somebody paid? Guilt by association?

Training classes dont change bullies, legal ones or not. They deserved jail time for lying, defacing the badge, and for nearly killing that man! That badge don't make them above the law, nor does it make them better human beings...they proved that. They are no better than the 'thugs' they are suppose to keep off our streets if thats the thinking.

You better believe I'd sue them if they got off if it were my child. He looks different, his friend is a thief, but he's the only one we could catch...yeah sound logic!

No, you're not following. I believe Jude stole the badge and gave it to his friend, who fled. The cops realized what happened and took action. The "thugs" here stole the badge. The cops may have overreacted, but they didn't create the problem, they just dealt with it.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

Ohh I have moved on. But they did not find the badge on him.And he never had a chance to leave the yard.Unless Jude also does Magic where is the badge?? OHHH I know his friend had it. SO why did the Police not beat him almost to death? Why becuase by that time the on duty police were at the scene and being told lies after lies by these 3 Cops that gives policeman all over the country a bad name.

I am not sure Jude stole the badge, but I'm pretty sure his friend who fled the scene had it on him, as he was the one who was begging for change to ride the bus because, according to witnesses, he had to throw everything out of his pockets.

And lets get on thing straight--legit,issued cop badges are worth serious jack in the blackmarket. They're used in various ways by criminals, none of them good. There is a thriving business in the manufacturing and selling of duplicate badges, which the FBI and other law enforcement agencies have been trying to quash for years now. This may be a case of a victim getting a beat down because of his douchebag friend pulling he didn't know about. Although I still think things would not have escalated the way they did if the victim hadn't lied about being a cop to real (drunk) cops. Like I said, everyone is an idiot in this case.

 

[Ang50]

As long as we're into blaming the victim, and assuming a badge was stolen - who is the dumb police officer that has everyone over for a party and then just leaves his badge sitting out somewhere, where it could easily be picked up and stolen? I know everyone who comes to my house for a party, but I still don't leave my laptop computer or anything else valuable and important to my job out and available.

No charges were pressed with regard to the badge - on Jude or Levell. If you choose to believe that's what happened, of course it's your right. I am pretty sure that if there was ANY evidence to support that, the DA would have filed those charges. I believe that the badge story made a great reason for beating Jude, and Spengler simply disposed of his badge later that night. Much easier, much simpler explanation.

Even if the badge was stolen, it's really too bad the jury totally ignored the law in order to let that be the excuse for criminal behavior on the part of the cops.

 

[duke]

As long as we're into blaming the victim, and assuming a badge was stolen - who is the dumb police officer that has everyone over for a party and then just leaves his badge sitting out somewhere, where it could easily be picked up and stolen? I know everyone who comes to my house for a party, but I still don't leave my laptop computer or anything else valuable and important to my job out and available.

No charges were pressed with regard to the badge - on Jude or Levell. If you choose to believe that's what happened, of course it's your right. I am pretty sure that if there was ANY evidence to support that, the DA would have filed those charges. I believe that the badge story made a great reason for beating Jude, and Spengler simply disposed of his badge later that night. Much easier, much simpler explanation.

Even if the badge was stolen, it's really too bad the jury totally ignored the law in order to let that be the excuse for criminal behavior on the part of the cops.

What do you believe was the reason for beating Jude up?

 

[Ang50]

Racism and jealousy. I think 2 black men (one big and good-looking) walked into an all-white party in a all-white suburb with 2 white women. I think they quickly realized that it was a mistake, they were not welcome, and went to leave. Then some drunk white men who happened to be cops didn't like the "attitude" and instead of letting them go, decided to escalate the situation.

If that seems unreasonable or implausible, let's just say as a woman, I've put my friends/boyfriends in that type of situation before, not realizing how volatile it can be.

 

[duke]

Racism and jealousy. I think 2 black men (one big and good-looking) walked into an all-white party in a all-white suburb with 2 white women. I think they quickly realized that it was a mistake, they were not welcome, and went to leave. Then some drunk white men who happened to be cops didn't like the "attitude" and instead of letting them go, decided to escalate the situation.

If that seems unreasonable or implausible, let's just say as a woman, I've put my friends/boyfriends in that type of situation before, not realizing how volatile it can be.

Are you speculating or is this based on some of the testimony?

 

[JDB]

Racism and jealousy. I think 2 black men (one big and good-looking) walked into an all-white party in a all-white suburb with 2 white women. I think they quickly realized that it was a mistake, they were not welcome, and went to leave. Then some drunk white men who happened to be cops didn't like the "attitude" and instead of letting them go, decided to escalate the situation.

If that seems unreasonable or implausible, let's just say as a woman, I've put my friends/boyfriends in that type of situation before, not realizing how volatile it can be.

Ohh an you are forgetting one of the woman was at Spenglers house 3 days prior having SEX withe spengler and another cop. Which would also cause a little tension

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I'd like to know how on God's green earth, they ended up with an all-white jury?????? :waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec: I mean COME ON!!!!!! This case has race riot written all over it and they let it proceed with an all white jury???? Gimme a break! Regardless of whether or not the two stole a badge, this was a beat down, plain and simple. Federal prison time is going to be a lot harder on these cops than state prison time would have been, so I'm not sure who the prosecutor thought he was helping but not making sure there was a racially mixed jury.

 

[JDB]

Are you speculating or is this based on some of the testimony?

SO are you basing that the badge was taking by testimony? All I ever heard was the cops suspected the badge was taken. No proof just hear say IMHO>

 

[JDB]

I'd like to know how on God's green earth, they ended up with an all-white jury?????? :waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec: I mean COME ON!!!!!! This case has race riot written all over it and they let it proceed with an all white jury???? Gimme a break! Regardless of whether or not the two stole a badge, this was a beat down, plain and simple. Federal prison time is going to be a lot harder on these cops than state prison time would have been, so I'm not sure who the prosecutor thought he was helping but not making sure there was a racially mixed jury.

Thank you Jeana I know the DA wanted some Blcks on the jury but the defense always won out. And when going against 3 defendants with 3 differnt Attys. the defense had the cards stacked IMHO. And then to boot I saw when the Jury was going into deliberate and 3 names were picked out of the hat as Alternates. Strangest thing I have ever seen.

 

[Ang50]

Thank you Jeana I know the DA wanted some Blcks on the jury but the defense always won out. And when going against 3 defendants with 3 differnt Attys. the defense had the cards stacked IMHO. And then to boot I saw when the Jury was going into deliberate and 3 names were picked out of the hat as Alternates. Strangest thing I have ever seen.

The all-white jury didn't surprise me, but I can say that it's a problem with the jury pool, perhaps the process, etc. MKE is 37% black, accd'ing to this article - http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/19/cops.acquitted.ap/index.html
And my guess is now, more than ever, African-americans don't want to participate in any part of the legal system in the county.

Regardless, I was a law intern for a few trials this summer in MKE, and the jury pool was overwhelmingly white, and so it wouldn't take much in random selection to have an all-white jury. In fact the ones that I sat in on would have only had 1-2 people of color, as I remember them.

With regard to the alternates, that's standard WI procedure. They don't pre-select the alternates, which makes sense. For a trial, they need 12 jurors, will seat 16 or 17, then do the trial. If people have to drop out during the trial, then at the end you may end up with only 14 who have heard the whole thing. From those 14, you draw names of 2 who were the "alternates" and are then excused and do not deliberate. It makes more sense that way b/c since no one knew who the alternates would be - so all 17 people paid attention the whole time.

BTW - I saw a trial (not MKE county) where after jury selection it just ended up numbers-wise that they seated 13 jurors, 12 were women. When the alternate was randomly selected out at the end, it was the one man. So the man on trial ended up being acquitted by a jury of 12 women. (He had been accused of battering his wife...)