WI - Frank Jude beaten by off-duty Mikwaukee PD officers, 2004

[JDB]

We're mixing two threads. I can fight two battles at one time, but not in the same place.

You're really comparing apples and oranges here. Both deserve punishment. As I see it, Jude was punished and should be left alone. Sex offenders get punished but then they're punished again by being forced to register for the rest of their lives.

Jude was punished my BUTT He was kicked beat and had a knife pulled on him> IS that the punishment he deserves from Cops. So now because of this where is the punishment of the cops? Free and walking the streets.Oh yeah they lost thier jobs I forgot. That is not punishment for what they did.

 

[duke]

I see what you're saying. So, if you catch someone breaking into your home and shoot them in the face (not killing them of course), they shouldn't have to be punished by the law (courts) too.

I don't agree with that. I think they should get all the punishment that they can, but the trouble here is that it was a group of cops who are trained to restrain themselves from dishing out punishment on perps, not a scared out of their wits homeowner who was just trying to protect himself and his home.

I was only talking about this case in particular. Unfortunately, they didn't have the evidence to charge Jude with the theft. In most cases, yes, they should face trial for the crime as well.

 

[JDB]

I was only talking about this case in particular. Unfortunately, they didn't have the evidence to charge Jude with the theft. In most cases, yes, they should face trial for the crime as well.

Becuase there was no evidence!!! How much you want to bet the badge was misplaced at the house I mean after all the cops had been drinking. And according to testimony Jude never went into the bedroom

 

[Details]

Oh, and the punishment for theft is prison or a fine or both - and after you've been proven guilty. This vicious beating was not a punishment, it was simple assault.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I was only talking about this case in particular. Unfortunately, they didn't have the evidence to charge Jude with the theft. In most cases, yes, they should face trial for the crime as well.

That's not going to look too good in the civil rights trial that these cops are going to face.

 

[Goody]

I was only talking about this case in particular. Unfortunately, they didn't have the evidence to charge Jude with the theft. In most cases, yes, they should face trial for the crime as well.

In that case, both the cops and the perp should face charges in court for their actions. Cops and citizens alike do NOT have the right to gang up on someone and beat the crap out them even if they do suspect the target stole from them. I am just sorry that WI juries are so gutless. When cops can hide behind their badge and do it with the people's support, you won't get anything else but chaos. No wonder Milwaukee cops have such a bad rep around the country...from Bambi on!! :banghead:

 

[duke]

That's not going to look too good in the civil rights trial that these cops are going to face.

Since they were off duty and not necessarily acting in an "official capacity", that could hinder a federal prosecution on civil rights violations. It may or may not, I really don't know. Just a thought. Maybe someone else could shed light on it.

 

[JDB]

Since they were off duty and not necessarily acting in an "official capacity", that could hinder a federal prosecution on civil rights violations. It may or may not, I really don't know. Just a thought. Maybe someone else could shed light on it.

From what I hear a officer of the law even off duty they still repersent the BADGE. So yes They can be charge under Federal laws.

 

[Ang50]

From what I hear a officer of the law even off duty they still repersent the BADGE. So yes They can be charge under Federal laws.

The federal prosecutor will likely use USC 1983 to charge. It's a code under which people who are acting "under color of law" violate a person's civil rights. Any excessive force by LE is usually charged under this - at least civilly. I think it's the same criminally, although I could be wrong. I'll do a little research.

Regardless, apparently Spengler and Masarik both said on the stand, under oath, that when they realized a crime had been committed (the badge) then they put themselves on duty in order to take Jude into custody. That's what the DA McCann said that they said - and if true, can be used for "color of law" to be charged federally.

 

[JDB]

The federal prosecutor will likely use USC 1983 to charge. It's a code under which people who are acting "under color of law" violate a person's civil rights. Any excessive force by LE is usually charged under this - at least civilly. I think it's the same criminally, although I could be wrong. I'll do a little research.

Regardless, apparently Spengler and Masarik both said on the stand, under oath, that when they realized a crime had been committed (the badge) then they put themselves on duty in order to take Jude into custody. That's what the DA McCann said that they said - and if true, can be used for "color of law" to be charged federally.

Thank you!!! ANd we all know they have Bartlett using a Knife at the time. I see these three sso called policeman ( Which IMO gives the good ones a bad name ) Doing some Time in a big House

 

[Ang50]

OK - I'm not sure my US Code cite is correct, but it is a federal crime to use excessive force under color of law. If the cops did testify that they put themselves on duty - they might have really screwed themselves federally.

Here's a brief summary - http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/color.htm

And a little more language - it makes this even broader... looks like as long as it can be established that the cops "intended" to put Jude into custody - whether they put themselves on duty or not. What's funny about this is that in order to avoid federal charges, the cops might have to change their tune and instead of talking about the badge crime, might have to try to spin that they really were just drunk and wanted to beat Jude w/o reason.

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1] Acts under "color of any law" include acts not only done by federal, state, or local officials within the bounds or limits of their lawful authority, but also acts done without and beyond the bounds of their lawful authority; provided that, in order for unlawful acts of any official to be done under "color of any law," the unlawful acts must be done while such official is purporting or pretending to act in the performance of his/her official duties. This definition includes, in addition to law enforcement officials, individuals such as Mayors, Council persons, Judges, Nursing Home Proprietors, Security Guards, etc., persons who are bound by laws, statutes ordinances, or customs.

Punishment varies from a fine or imprisonment of up to one year, or both, and if bodily injury results or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire shall be fined or imprisoned up to ten years or both, and if death results, or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.[/size][/font]

 

[Ang50]

And one last thing - I believe that the federal jury pool would be pulled from the Eastern 1/2 of WI. So it would include Milwaukee, but also Oshkosh (where Jude lives) and some other areas. It's not likely that it would make the jury more ethnically diverse, but at least it wouldn't be a bunch of white people from Milwaukee.

 

[JDB]

OK - I'm not sure my US Code cite is correct, but it is a federal crime to use excessive force under color of law. If the cops did testify that they put themselves on duty - they might have really screwed themselves federally.

Here's a brief summary - http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/color.htm

And a little more language - it makes this even broader... looks like as long as it can be established that the cops "intended" to put Jude into custody - whether they put themselves on duty or not. What's funny about this is that in order to avoid federal charges, the cops might have to change their tune and instead of talking about the badge crime, might have to try to spin that they really were just drunk and wanted to beat Jude w/o reason.

Snip
OHHH Which means Perjury OOPS

 

[Ang50]

Exactly! Perjury! That's why taking the stand is generally NEVER a good idea for defendants. It is under oath, in court, and can be used in other trials, including a civil trial for $$ now too. So they'll have to stick to whatever story they told, even though it may hurt them federally. We'll see...

 

[Goody]

OK - I'm not sure my US Code cite is correct, but it is a federal crime to use excessive force under color of law. If the cops did testify that they put themselves on duty - they might have really screwed themselves federally.

Here's a brief summary - http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/color.htm

And a little more language - it makes this even broader... looks like as long as it can be established that the cops "intended" to put Jude into custody - whether they put themselves on duty or not. What's funny about this is that in order to avoid federal charges, the cops might have to change their tune and instead of talking about the badge crime, might have to try to spin that they really were just drunk and wanted to beat Jude w/o reason.

Snip
OHHH Which means Perjury OOPS

I heard that one of the cops used to date one of the girls with Jude. That might have been the real inspiration for the beating.

 

[Bobbisangel]

Well, because I think the guy deserved it for reasons stated earler. Again, I'm not saying that what happened was right, it wasn't. But I do believe Jude created the whole problem.

Why because he is black and was at their house with white girls or because he was uncomfortable and wanted to leave almost as soon as he got there?

It couldn't be because he stole a badge and wallet because two or three of those righteous cops checked him over up one side and down the other and they also checked the truck....he didn't have the badge and wallet. There was no chance for him to get rid of the badge and wallet if he had had it because the herd followed the 4 people from the house to the truck. So how did Jude create the whole problem?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Since they were off duty and not necessarily acting in an "official capacity", that could hinder a federal prosecution on civil rights violations. It may or may not, I really don't know. Just a thought. Maybe someone else could shed light on it.

From what I remember, cops are never really "off duty," but Milwaukee may be different.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Why because he is black and was at their house with white girls or because he was uncomfortable and wanted to leave almost as soon as he got there?

It couldn't be because he stole a badge and wallet because two or three of those righteous cops checked him over up one side and down the other and they also checked the truck....he didn't have the badge and wallet. There was no chance for him to get rid of the badge and wallet if he had had it because the herd followed the 4 people from the house to the truck. So how did Jude create the whole problem?

Seriously, the dude didn't look black. I think the cops may have had plenty of other problems, but I don't think there was a "black issue." (just my opinion).

 

[Ang50]

Seriously, the dude didn't look black. I think the cops may have had plenty of other problems, but I don't think there was a "black issue." (just my opinion).

The guy he was with was most definitely black. And Jude is not white - definitely not compared to all the pasty cops. I think race was part of it, but I don't think it was the only thing - I think his physique and looks were part of it too.

 

[Ang50]

From what I remember, cops are never really "off duty," but Milwaukee may be different.

I'm not sure about the actual "off duty" part, but for the purposes of being prosecuted for a federal crime, it may make a difference.

Compare this to if this was a bar fight that happened to involve men who were not in uniform, but did work as cops. They just happened to get in a fight with other people. I don't think that they would be exposed to federal charges every time they were in a fight...