WI - ICE seeks help to ID youth in photos #1

[believe09]

It is not unreasonable to hope that a picture of the girl will lead to the identity of both children. It is not salacious-not anymore than having the pictures out here of this young man. The assumption that anyone looking for information about her is somehow doing it for some gratuitous reason is unfair.

Yes she should be protected. Absolutely. But finding her is pretty darn important.

 

[believe09]

I can't speak for others-I am taking this horror show very personally. I am not judging the boy-I want to find him like everyone else including LE. He looks like any other teen I have ever seen, in fact he looks midwestern to me. I was at a childs bday party today, saw a teen who looked remarkably like him but a few years older. I almost called it in.

 

[Sleuthsayers]

Lots of bad but lots of skill and some good, too, on 4chan. If indeed they are on it, they will find who it is.

Really this doesn't speak to their investigative skills so much as the fact that they are willing to view/do things we are not.

There are people on here that are very talented amateur investigators I think.

 

[Jules71]

If this were my daughter - I would want the authorities to do whatever possible to find out who she is - even at the expense of violating her privacy - in order to STOP this from continuing!! One more day is TOO LONG.

 

[believe09]

I am fairly certain that LE and perhaps the media have their eyes on this thread. Let's not lose momentum.

Was someone going to do an age progression?

 

[Sleuthsayers]

<modsnip>.

If you've seen the stills you would understand that if you can't ID him, you probably won't be able to ID her.

They know each other, and most likely are siblings.

It is bad enough that his picture has been put on the news. His life is over.
There is literally no reason to make this worse by broadcasting her face.
How many of us went and looked at those pictures which we would never have seen if not for the police putting his picture in the news? How many more people do you want to see this girl being abused? Again, nothing is gained by the police putting her picture in the public domain as an abused child. THAT IS WHY THEY NEVER DO IT.

<modsnip>

It isn't in HER best interest, and that should be what matters most.

<modsnip>.

How can they possibly not have gotten tips yet IDing him? And yet they haven't asked the news sites to pull the comments which led us to see things we never wanted to see.
Her face would be public domain for eternity as a victim, to EVERYONE , not just the perverts of 4chan, etc.

 

[NavySubMom]

I am fairly certain that LE and perhaps the media have their eyes on this thread. Let's not lose momentum.

Was someone going to do an age progression?

but what do they want us to do with the little bit of information given? if we only use the 2 pics they gave us, with the only other bit of information in the story, what do we have? age-progress a side view? or age-progress a picture of the boy/teen who looks like he has a giant forehead, eyes spread wide apart with a large nose bridge? if we don't use what was found on image shack, there isn't much to use, as that is the only place where the girl can be seen or something about her other than "children may also be in danger?"

if they really want help, they didn't do a very good job of asking for it, that is why I am wondering WHAT they really are asking for, or WHAT this is really all about? doesn't really seem like identifying the boy with the 2 photos they gave? maybe I am missing something here .......

unless they know the PARENTS are involved?? so it is not a girl a mother/father are worried about or looking for? or an orphan? so many possibilities, but they don't give us much choice speculating.

IMO, MOO, etc.

 

[Jules71]

If she can be found by showing her picture - that to me is more important than not letting the world know what happened to her.

 

[Sleuthsayers]

but what do they want us to do with the little bit of information given?

They want you to look at the kids face and figure out if you know him or not. Period.

This site is not exactly what they had in mind.

I'm here too, so I'm not judging others for what happens here.

But truthfully they aren't expecting the general public to do what we do here, to enhance the pics for better analysis, etc.

It is rare what they have done here, and I believe they only did so because as is evident in the pictures, he is a (if not "the") "perp" in this video, and not the victim.

<modsnip>

 

[believe09]

LE provides photos of victims they are trying to identify to the media, Sleuthsayers. We can go as far back at the Boy in the Box. Dead or alive, it is done. When they are trying to identify someone. ICE does it, Interpol does it, it happens. It is not common, but it happens.

 

[thefragile7393]

Because they don't identify sexual abuse victims in the media.

I won't argue whether the girl's face has should or should not be shown....I think that is too tricky a subject for me to navigate. I will say however, that they have shown pictures of this boy so clearly yes, they identify sexual abuse victims. This boy is a victim, not "maybe." Kids do NOT do this kind of behavior on their own; they do not just suddenly start doing this. It happens because someone did it to them repeatedly and is now using them for whatever their own sick pleasures are. An adult is the person who got this all to happen and it is an adult that is orchestrating this and using him and the other child.

 

[beach]

Mod note:

Please respect the viewpoints of fellow members.

It is not okay to tell others what is okay to discuss.

Tolerance, please.

Thanks.

 

[Sleuthsayers]

If she can be found by showing her picture - that to me is more important than not letting the world know what happened to her.

If the danger outweighs IDing her.


This video may be 2 years old.

And as I've tried to explain...

If no one has been able to ID him yet, what are the odds that someone will be able to actually ID her? That is why they showed his pic and not hers, It is not necessary to show hers if they're showing his.

Especially since I believe they are related, or neighbors.



The children are clean, well dressed, and calm in the pictures.
The basement is a typical family basement.
The demeanor of the younger child demonstrates that this is not the first time this has happened. Which means they know each other.


This isn't the scenario some were imagining in the beginning.
This is not some dungeon populated with kidnapped sex slaves.

It is probably a terrible family secret that is now no longer a secret.

The picture of the older child has been publicized. There is no reason why that shouldn't be enough. In fact I'd bet they already have gotten a good tip about who he is.

I'll say it one last time and try to let it go, but...

Her face does not need to be publicized in order to ID these kids.

 

[believe09]

I think the boy is from the US and I think he is 13-14 when he made the video. (If he made the video which is how it looks to me.)

Any other thoughts on this? I have been in and out of the thread, so forgive me if you have covered this.

 

[Salem]

Okay - STOP the BICKERING. Stop.

LE has asked for help. That is WHAT we do here. LE has released photos, they can be used, enhanced, whatever. That is WHAT we do here.

As for pictures of the other minor - they need to come from a legitimate source. I'm not sure what Imageshack is, if the pictures there are from LE or where they came from. Maybe someone can enlighten me on that aspect, please?

NOW - Everyone needs to take a step back here and think about what is going on. If by using the pictures from Imageshack, we are in ANY WAY contributing to victimizing this child - we should not be doing that, because that is NOT WHAT we do here.

I'll wait to hear from you about the imageshack photos.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[believe09]

Okay - STOP the BICKERING. Stop.

LE has asked for help. That is WHAT we do here. LE has released photos, they can be used, enhanced, whatever. That is WHAT we do here.

As for pictures of the other minor - they need to come from a legitimate source. I'm not sure what Imageshack is, if the pictures there are from LE or where they came from. Maybe someone can enlighten me on that aspect, please?

NOW - Everyone needs to take a step back here and think about what is going on. If by using the pictures from Imageshack, we are in ANY WAY contributing to victimizing this child - we should not be doing that, because that is NOT WHAT we do here.

I'll wait to hear from you about the imageshack photos.

Thanks,

Salem

The stills in the story originated from a video. A commentor at MSNBC placed more grabs from the video, which can be found at several sites on the WWW, so that there were better pictures of the teen. The video depicts this teen sexually assaulting a very young child. The child's face in the imageshack photos has been blurred. The sexual activity has been blurred. There is no question what is happening in the screengrabs.

What makes the additional stills valuable is that there are much clearer pictures of the youth and the room. LE already released that it is a basement.

 

[believe09]

If we get back to the boy-how can we help facilitate his identity? I am a facebook novice-is there a way to find all dark haired teen boys with his facial features between 13 and 19?

 

[DevilsPlayThing]

I am fairly certain that LE and perhaps the media have their eyes on this thread. Let's not lose momentum.

Was someone going to do an age progression?

The photos released to media were the best to work with because the eyes are visible. Those photos seem to have already been through an age regression though. I used every possible photo from imageshack with both progression and regression. Thinking maybe the boy was a kidnap victim as a toddler or schoolboy and may be on a database. Poor results mostly due to lighting. Need to see the eyes. Lastly I used the released photos. The progression looked poor quality. Then I did age regression to 13ish and the photos were unchanged. This is highly unusual. There were other signs of photo manipulation as well.

 

[Salem]

I know what is done here, I have been a member for a long time. So, I know we can use the 2 photos that LE released.

However, there other photos upthread that are better frontal-views of the boy/teen that LE did NOT release, they were screencapped from the actual video and found on an imageshack website, people were directed to that website from a msnb.com comment. is THAT photo allowed to be on Websleuths at all? is THAT photo allowed to be age progressed? also there is another photo that shows more of the room, a lamp, etc., from those imageshack screencaps, that were NOT given out by LE? are all of those fair game on websleuths? or only the 2 photos given out by LE? are we allowed to describe the girl at all? her hair, approximate age, etc., all of that info came from the imageshack screencaps, NOT LE, they never even mentioned a "girl', they said "young children" or something. there are things being discussed here that LE did NOT give out, is that allowed?

IMO, MOO, etc.

Thanks for your reply Navy. At this point in time, no. The pictures that are stills from the video may NOT be used.

I have taken this case up the chain of command and until Admin/Mgmt weigh in, WS will NOT be using any pictures from such a video.

If you have further questions, please pm a mod and we will be happy to help.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[NavySubMom]

If we get back to the boy-how can we help facilitate his identity? I am a facebook novice-is there a way to find all dark haired teen boys with his facial features between 13 and 19?

have you ever used Google imaging? someone would have to save one of the available pictures, and you just "drop" it into the menu bar of Google Imaging. I might give it a whirl, but I know one would have to dig deep into the hits because there are probably so many of the images used in MSM these past few days and on other forums, etc.

but wouldn't LE/ICE/Homeland Security ALREADY have done these kind of searches? How could they NOT, they have all kinds of technology available to try to find a match for this boy/teen on the internet. they probably have all kinds of facial recognition software, etc., that is why I am baffled here about this whole thing.

IMO, MOO, etc.