Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #37

[DutchTreat]

Because no matter what, he was never going to be MENSA material?

I think you might be surprised.

 

[Rosiebones]

Midnight.....how would she know when it was midnight? Why say it if she didn't have some sort of access to a clock? MOO

She may still have her wrist watch. He may never have thought to take it off of her or he figured why would he care if she did know what time it was.

 

[Rhenish]

I assume if she gained his trust he was talking to her as you would your partner, as creepy as that is. In that case, whether she had access to a clock really isn't the point.

I have speculated a fair amount over whether or not she gained his trust but then I remind myself that she approached the dog walker in a terrified state and bedraggled condition wearing men's shoes while running for her life. Hard to say...

 

[bellyup]

Yes, media needs to quit referring to that as a cabin...it is a full fledged house.

If you go by footprint of the garage... it’s about the size of a two level two car garage. It’s larger than I expected but also not very big.

I think the media is saying “cabin” due to the fact that most of the dwellings in that area aren’t permenant residences. They’re “cabins” that families retreat to for weekend or summer get aways.

 

[1987]

it was said some pages back that she didn't know how much time had passed, didn't know that Christmas had come and gone already. why would she know the time of day or night if she didn't know how many days had passed.

 

[tnith]

Better pics of the lunatic's house at this link too. Thanks!

In the older google earth versions, there is an odd array of strewn clutter opposite & southwest of the property structures (across back/side yard). It seemed like buckets? I can make out that something is still there but it's difficult to determine. Have you other ideas about those scattered shapes?

 

[SeekingJana]

All this talk about trauma and what it does or doesn’t cause.

Highly reccommend reading “The Body Keeps Score” for a comprehensive look at PTSD and it’s life long effects.

No two people respond directly the same ; even to the same trauma. (In the book two people are in a car crash together and their responses are vastly different. One develops severe flashbacks, nightmares, etc. The other is almost non chalant about it. Why? For the one with the PTSD symptoms it was their first trauma. The other had many childhood traumas that taught the brain to disassociate).

Bottom line: No two people with the same illness, personality disorder, mental impairment or trauma will react or act in the exact same ways because no two people have ever lived the exact same life.

You're missing the point. The point is that victims of TARGETED PERSONAL, severe, depersonalizing trauma such as forced abduction after seeing one's parents murdered ( most likely she saw or he told her soon as a control method), being held in a strange place perhaps with blindfolds, gags, bindings, handcuffs, deprivation of food, basic sanitation and any sense of time and place WOULD BREAK YOU AND A WAR- HARDENED POW in your spirit and parts of your mental processing.

Sure, you both would react " differently", all people process and react " differently", more accurately stated as uniquely individually, but enough research has been done on the subject for us to know without one iota of doubt that a conscious or partly conscious prisoner will have trauma to recover from in the future.

Also, you give the example of 2 car accident survivors where one deals better because they've been through many car accidents before.
I sincerely hope you are not saying that a survivor of abuse which is repeated responds less than one who has never been abducted and abused before. IOW, the analogy SUCKS.

Unless it is dealt with by the person in their own productive and healthy ways, usually with guidance and loving support, then they might as well still BE in the basement in the dark with little food, water, sanitation for the rest of their lives.

We cannot heal from this level of trauma we cannot acknowledge or admit and ask someone we trust to support us emotionally as we are dealing with the hdealing.

 

[Yesiamapirate]

She may still have her wrist watch. He may never have thought to take it off of her or he figured why would he care if she did know what time it was.

I was probably just reading too much into it. Trying to get a picture I my head....IDK. It just bugged me that he said midnight. Not just later, after dark....etc. Again, I know it is irrelevant to the whole story. And impossible to get into the head of that monster anyways.

 

[human]

Someone else pointed out that (at least when he was caught), JP was driving, not walking, which would have been necessary to follow her tracks. Also, Jayme was wearing overly large shoes when she approached the dog walker. If those were JP's shoes, as some have suggested, that might've made it harder for him to follow her tracks, which, though fresher than his, might have gotten mixed up with his own tracks.

No tracks on icy roads. Not possible.

 

[SeekingJana]

I think you might be surprised.

I don't agree with your high estimation of suspect.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

You're missing the point. The point is that victims of TARGETED PERSONAL, severe, depersonalizing trauma such as forced abduction after seeing one's parents murdered ( most likely she saw or he told her soon as a control method), being held in a strange place perhaps with blindfolds, gags, bindings, handcuffs, deprivation of food, basic sanitation and any sense of time and place WOULD BREAK YOU AND A WAR- HARDENED POW in your spirit and parts of your mental processing.

Sure, you both would react " differently", all people process and react " differently", more accurately stated as uniquely individually, but enough research has been done on the subject for us to know without one iota of doubt that a conscious or partly conscious prisoner will have trauma to recover from in the future.

Also, you give the example of 2 car accident survivors where one deals better because they've been through many car accidents before.
I sincerely hope you are not saying that a survivor of abuse which is repeated responds less than one who has never been abducted and abused before. IOW, the analogy SUCKS.

Unless it is dealt with by the person in their own productive and healthy ways, usually with guidance and loving support, then they might as well still BE in the basement in the dark with little food, water, sanitation for the rest of their lives.

We cannot heal from this level of trauma we cannot acknowledge or admit and ask someone we trust to support us emotionally as we are dealing with the hdealing.

I really think all that Bellyup was saying is that no one knows how Jayme or anyone else will react. Each person is different. I don’t believe she was arguing that Jayme won’t be traumatized. We just can’t know specifically how she will react to this trauma.

 

[The Dude]

In the older google earth versions, there is an odd array of strewn clutter opposite & southwest of the property structures (across back/side yard). It seemed like buckets? I can make out that something is still there but it's difficult to determine. Have you other ideas about those scattered shapes?

Not really. It all looks like junk. Now, on the most recent (I assume drone footage), there is a circle and a rectangle behind the house at the edge of the trees. My first thought was a cheap pool and a dog enclosure, but it would be an odd place to put both of those things. I don't know...

 

[Rosiebones]

I was probably just reading too much into it. Trying to get a picture I my head....IDK. It just bugged me that he said midnight. Not just later, after dark....etc. Again, I know it is irrelevant to the whole story. And impossible to get into the head of that monster anyways.

I wonder if he had done that before, leaving until midnight, and if he did where did he go and what did he do. I got the impression there wasn't much to do up there, so where did he go for 3 to 4 hours?

 

[Wrenny]

In the last thread (sorry don't know how to quote from there) someone posted about the property taxes on the Patterson house: "& something about a lottery credit. (I have no idea what that is)"

It's something Wisconsin residents get. I think there are some requirements like it has to be your primary residence or something like that. Every little bit helps since Wisconsin property taxes are ridiculously high.

 

[Bluebythec]

it was said some pages back that she didn't know how much time had passed, didn't know that Christmas had come and gone already. why would she know the time of day or night if she didn't know how many days had passed.

I'm guessing they lived off of microwaved food and there's probably a clock on it.

 

[tnith]

We might well ask, 'Are there other crimes against healthy, happy families, in Wisconsin?'

Is there any evidence of in depth intervention after the CPS 'quarantine' of the boys?

That which is left to fester, spreads and sickens all it touches. Many ways this manifests.

 

[yawningreyhound]

I was wondering how the utilities were at JP's house. With him not employed and possibly not paying bills, was there electricity, heat and running water?

And then the thought came to my mind, reading about the 1-day employment history, since both victims were supervisors at Jenny o's, did maybe one of them be the reason he was only employed for one day? And there's a revenge element?

True randomness seems remote to me.

 

[Wrenny]

He likely came to their door as a salesman or something to case the place out. It is my guess that he put a lot of time into planning this crime out.

He probably even knows where the staircase is.

 

[The Dude]

Circle and rectangle -

https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxn...s/2019/01/1862/1048/ClossHouse1.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

Go! Once we figure this out, it's on to the patio doors and stairs!

 

[tnith]

In the last thread (sorry don't know how to quote from there) someone posted about the property taxes on the Patterson house: "& something about a lottery credit. (I have no idea what that is)"

It's something Wisconsin residents get. I think there are some requirements like it has to be your primary residence or something like that. Every little bit helps since Wisconsin property taxes are ridiculously high.

Perhaps this explains all the mortgage shenanigans?

DOR Wisconsin Lottery and Gaming Credit Program

1. What is the Lottery and Gaming Credit?
   
   The Lottery and Gaming Credit is a credit that provides direct property tax relief to qualifying taxpayers on their property tax bills. Lottery proceeds are paid into a separate segregated state fund. The lottery credit is displayed on tax bills as a reduction of property taxes due.
   
2. Who qualifies for the Lottery and Gaming Credit?
   
   To qualify for the Lottery and Gaming Credit, you must be a Wisconsin resident, own a dwelling and use it as your primary residence as of the January 1 certification date of the year the property taxes are levied.
   
   If an owner is temporarily absent, typically for a period no longer than six months (ex: hospital, vacation, incarcerated), the primary residence is the home where the owner returns. Principal dwelling means any dwelling the owner of the dwelling uses as his/her primary residence.
   
   A property owner may claim only one primary residence. You cannot claim the Lottery and Gaming Credit on business property, rental units, vacant land, garages or other property that is not the owner's primary residence (sec. 79.10(1)(dm), (9)(bm), Wis. Stats.).
   
3. Do I have to apply for the Lottery and Gaming Credit?
   
   • Yes. To receive the credit, an eligible property owner must file an application with the county treasurer where the property is located or, with the city treasurer if the property is located in a city that collects taxes under state law (sec. 74.87, Wis. Stats.)
   • If you are eligible for the credit as of the January 1 certification date, but your property tax bill does not show the credit, you may:
     • Claim the credit by applying to the municipal (town, village or city) treasurer where the property is located, by January 31 after you receive your property tax bill
     • File a late claim application (if you missed the January 31 deadline) with the Wisconsin Department of Revenue by October 1, after your property tax bill is issued
     • Lottery and Gaming Credit applications forms are located at: revenue.wi.gov/Pages/Form/lottery-home.aspx
4. How is the Lottery and Gaming Credit calculated?
   
   The amount of funds available for the Lottery and Gaming Credit is determined in November of each year based on revenues generated from the Wisconsin Lottery, pari-mutuel on-track betting and bingo during the year.
   
   Based on available funds and an estimated number of properties qualifying for the credit, DOR determines a maximum credit value (MCV). The credit amount for each qualifying property is then calculated by multiplying the MCV (or the actual value of the property if that value is less than the MCV) by the applicable school tax rate. This is the amount of credit provided for that property. (sec. 79.10(9) (bm), (11), Wis. Stats.)
   
5. Do manufactured/mobile homes that pay a monthly permit fee qualify?
   
   • Yes. It qualifies if the owner uses the manufactured/mobile home as his or her primary residence as of January 1 of the year the permit fees are applied
   • Municipal (town, village or city) clerk calculates and deducts one-twelfth of the credit each month from the monthly municipal permit fee
   • Eligible manufactured/mobile home owners must file a Lottery and Gaming Credit application with the municipal treasurer or the 1st class city treasurer (City of Milwaukee) to receive the Lottery and Gaming Credit. (secs. 79.10(1)(dm), (9)(bm), (10)(a), 66.0435(3)(c)1.c., Wis. Stats.)