Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #39

[MsBetsy]

Really? Where did you read that?

In the document that was released the other day. I thought it said the clothes, mask, and license plate were all found on his property. Imo

 

[kkdj]

I'm not an expert by any means, but I think it takes more than just being occasionally nice to the captive. I think brainwashing happens and the captive starts to identify with the purpose/motivation of the captor.

I don't see that happening with Jayme. She witnessed her parents' murders and I don't think anything would sway her from the horror of that, just my hunch.

But we know very little of what happened.

jmo

You know I think you're right! She would never succumb to it.
Ok. I'm putting it out of my head.

 

[SausagePizza]

Based on the sequence of events since JP was arrested - I hope JP just pleads guilty.

 

[kkdj]

In the document that was released the other day. I thought it said the clothes, mask, and license plate were all found on his property. Imo

The complaint? I'll go see. Thanks

So, there's this:

"The defendant provided locations for where his brown colored steel toed work boots, black colored jacket, black mask, and jeans he was wearing were located. "

And this:

"The defendant drew out a diagram of the floor plan of his house and indicated on the diagram the garbage can where he had put the license plate he stole before kidnapping J.L.C."

I think it's supposed to read "floor plan of her house."

 

[bellyup]

If SA happened (and we don't know that it did), can those charges be brought later? Can they try him for murder and kidnapping, and later, when JC is ready to talk about her captivity, bring more charges? Or does it have to happen all at once?
jmo

I went to look it up and it literally says the statue of limitations on SA is "6 years or no limit" in WI with no reasoning or clarification.

My guess is when it's a 13 yo girl being held captive most prosecutors would lean toward "no limit" but that's just a guess.

 

[Scrapper18]

If SA happened (and we don't know that it did), can those charges be brought later? Can they try him for murder and kidnapping, and later, when JC is ready to talk about her captivity, bring more charges? Or does it have to happen all at once?

jmo

So far all the charges have been on crimes committed in Barron County. Crimes which occurred at the house/cabin would be in Douglas County. IIRC PC after court on Monday indicated Douglas County would make a decision on further charges prior to the next court date.

 

[Karinna]

I don't remember seeing "no other injuries" but if so, that was reported upon her rescue and doesn't mean she wasn't injured or harmed in any way at all during the 88 days.

Yeah we don't really know.

 

[MsBetsy]

If SA happened (and we don't know that it did), can those charges be brought later? Can they try him for murder and kidnapping, and later, when JC is ready to talk about her captivity, bring more charges? Or does it have to happen all at once?

jmo

I don't think there is any charge that would be related to that. I just think it is something that often happens between a captor and victim and someone invented a name for it. After a while the victim may realize that if she shows appreciation to the kidnapper she may get treated better. It's a way to survive. Imo

 

[Lillymac]

Yeah we don't really know.

No we do not know, but wasn't she only kept overnight in the hospital? Not sure maybe two nights?

 

[VeryVeritas]

I remain profoundly pleased that Jayme escaped.
Reading what is now public, it seems to me that LE and FBI failed.
The reason is pretty simple.
It appears that its just a coincidence that JP worked in Barron at Jennie-O all of 1 day. I'm not so sure it was a coincidence.
However, in the first 24 hrs of this case I would want a list of every employee for the past 5 years minimum. Within another 48 hrs I would have wanted that list cross referenced against the vehicle types spotted with WI license plate and registration records. Yes LE can get a list of all maroon (or similarly colored) Ford Tauruses, or the other vehicles. Since the Taurus was seen directly by LE enroute to the Closs home, that vehicle should have been high if not at top of the list. Just a guess... but I'd expect as many as 10,000 employees in 10 years. Less than 2% of cars are that color. So 200 cars and people at most. Then you can apply other statistical and profile factors to decide who you most likely to look at. Out of 200, 100 or so are men. This is something that could have been done in hours to minutes once the 2 lists were obtained, which should not have taken more than 2 days. Just based on that the list of 100 is rather small. How long would it take 1 investigator to narrow that list? Here on WS as we were profiling, I posted male late teens to 30's(most likely 20's), ex military and/or hunter and/or criminal. So I would have filtered those 100 by age,hunting license records, military records and criminal databases. Between that and age the list should narrow. Even if I alone had to dig into 100 people and figure out where they were on that night, it would not have taken more than a couple weeks. But, a few agents and advanced tools? That should have been narrowed within days to a handful of people. And that handful could have been under surveillance. And it does seem JP WAS prepared for that. How you could figure out that Jayme was hidden in there is another subject. But hands down I would have had his name on a list of 10 to 100 people within days if that Taurus was registered to him. And if LE saw the plate number they could have deduced that the vehicle spotted had stolen plates. Which means, someone should concentrate on that type vehicle. I would volunteer some of my time to the FBI for this type of case if they are too short handed to do that sort of basic task. Now, its possible they did have him on a list, but arent public about it. I hope thats the case. But 88 days is too long. If he never worked at Jennie-o it would have taken longer to narrow the list. But the fact is, he had worked there.

 

[MsBetsy]

The complaint? I'll go see. Thanks

So, there's this:

"The defendant provided locations for where his brown colored steel toed work boots, black colored jacket, black mask, and jeans he was wearing were located. "

And this:

"The defendant drew out a diagram of the floor plan of his house and indicated on the diagram the garbage can where he had put the license plate he stole before kidnapping J.L.C."

Yes, i guess it was the complaint, sorry I couldn't think of the name of it! It was when they were describing the clothing found on his property. The license plate was in the garbage can? I could be wrong, but I thought they said they found it there. Imo

 

[singlemom]

To be fair, other than one or two brief statements what occurred in that house in those 88 days aside the method he used to restrain her and her ability or attempts to escape ; pretty much remains a mystery.

I'm on the opposite end of this spectrum. While I suspect that there was plenty of terrorizing I also suspect that there were attempts at "normalcy" or him faking kindness. The monopoly game as an example of this. I don't believe that he ever intended to murder Jayme. He viewed her as his "prize" imo. I think her first escape attempt would have resulted in serious injury if that was his end game.

Do we actually know that they played monopoly? All I saw was the picture on Radar with the caption that there was a half finished game of monopoly in the living room. I've never seen that we know for sure JP and Jayme actually played the game. But maybe I missed it.

 

[Scrapper18]

I don't think there is any charge that would be related to that. I just think it is something that often happens between a captor and victim and someone invented a name for it. After a while the victim may realize that if she shows appreciation to the kidnapper she may get treated better. It's a way to survive. Imo

Hi MsBetsy. Are you sure you quoted the post you intended? There most certainly is a charge for SA. In fact, if it occurred every day, it could be 88 charges of SA.

 

[Lillymac]

I remain profoundly pleased that Jayme escaped.
Reading what is now public, it seems to me that LE and FBI failed.
The reason is pretty simple.
It appears that its just a coincidence that JP worked in Barron at Jennie-O all of 1 day. I'm not so sure it was a coincidence.
However, in the first 24 hrs of this case I would want a list of every employee for the past 5 years minimum. Within another 48 hrs I would have wanted that list cross referenced against the vehicle types spotted with WI license plate and registration records. Yes LE can get a list of all maroon (or similarly colored) Ford Tauruses, or the other vehicles. Since the Taurus was seen directly by LE enroute to the Closs home, that vehicle should have been high if not at top of the list. Just a guess... but I'd expect as many as 10,000 employees in 10 years. Less than 2% of cars are that color. So 200 cars and people at most. Then you can apply other statistical and profile factors to decide who you most likely to look at. Out of 200, 100 or so are men. This is something that could have been done in hours to minutes once the 2 lists were obtained, which should not have taken more than 2 days. Just based on that the list of 100 is rather small. How long would it take 1 investigator to narrow that list? Here on WS as we were profiling, I posted male late teens to 30's(most likely 20's), ex military and/or hunter and/or criminal. So I would have filtered those 100 by age,hunting license records, military records and criminal databases. Between that and age the list should narrow. Even if I alone had to dig into 100 people and figure out where they were on that night, it would not have taken more than a couple weeks. But, a few agents and advanced tools? That should have been narrowed within days to a handful of people. And that handful could have been under surveillance. And it does seem JP WAS prepared for that. How you could figure out that Jayme was hidden in there is another subject. But hands down I would have had his name on a list of 10 to 100 people within days if that Taurus was registered to him. And if LE saw the plate number they could have deduced that the vehicle spotted had stolen plates. Which means, someone should concentrate on that type vehicle. I would volunteer some of my time to the FBI for this type of case if they are too short handed to do that sort of basic task. Now, its possible they did have him on a list, but arent public about it. I hope thats the case. But 88 days is too long. If he never worked at Jennie-o it would have taken longer to narrow the list. But the fact is, he had worked there.

The Taurus was registered to his sister ...

 

[Hatfield]

JMO
Something I found interesting when the charging document came out.

LE had a lot of detailed information in the charging document and it seems a lot of it had to come directly from JP. He didnt seem the type to start telling LE anything so I am wondering why he didn't just stay silent and ask for a lawyer? I guess maybe he figured he was caught and decided to go ahead and just admit to LE the details. It seems he was almost bragging about some things in a strange way. Maybe his arrogance is so large that he couldnt help himself in telling LE the details.

Anyway I just found it strange he would start to tell LE anything at all and especially so much so quickly. I didnt expect that at all.

 

[amberella]

I remain profoundly pleased that Jayme escaped.
Reading what is now public, it seems to me that LE and FBI failed.
The reason is pretty simple.
It appears that its just a coincidence that JP worked in Barron at Jennie-O all of 1 day. I'm not so sure it was a coincidence.
However, in the first 24 hrs of this case I would want a list of every employee for the past 5 years minimum. Within another 48 hrs I would have wanted that list cross referenced against the vehicle types spotted with WI license plate and registration records. Yes LE can get a list of all maroon (or similarly colored) Ford Tauruses, or the other vehicles. Since the Taurus was seen directly by LE enroute to the Closs home, that vehicle should have been high if not at top of the list. Just a guess... but I'd expect as many as 10,000 employees in 10 years. Less than 2% of cars are that color. So 200 cars and people at most. Then you can apply other statistical and profile factors to decide who you most likely to look at. Out of 200, 100 or so are men. This is something that could have been done in hours to minutes once the 2 lists were obtained, which should not have taken more than 2 days. Just based on that the list of 100 is rather small. How long would it take 1 investigator to narrow that list? Here on WS as we were profiling, I posted male late teens to 30's(most likely 20's), ex military and/or hunter and/or criminal. So I would have filtered those 100 by age,hunting license records, military records and criminal databases. Between that and age the list should narrow. Even if I alone had to dig into 100 people and figure out where they were on that night, it would not have taken more than a couple weeks. But, a few agents and advanced tools? That should have been narrowed within days to a handful of people. And that handful could have been under surveillance. And it does seem JP WAS prepared for that. How you could figure out that Jayme was hidden in there is another subject. But hands down I would have had his name on a list of 10 to 100 people within days if that Taurus was registered to him. And if LE saw the plate number they could have deduced that the vehicle spotted had stolen plates. Which means, someone should concentrate on that type vehicle. I would volunteer some of my time to the FBI for this type of case if they are too short handed to do that sort of basic task. Now, its possible they did have him on a list, but arent public about it. I hope thats the case. But 88 days is too long. If he never worked at Jennie-o it would have taken longer to narrow the list. But the fact is, he had worked there.

This sounds great in theory, but the taurus was actually registered to his sister. so they would've had to reference all the employees vehicles AND all of their family members vehicles. Definitely an undertaking that would be much more than a 24 hour project.

eta: mightve been registered to his mom... now I dont remember, but it had a female name on the registration.

 

[pepper 34]

Well, that argument works both ways. What if the Challenger or the black SUV turned out to be the suspect’s car? Wasn’t LE doing the same thing, risking that the suspect wouldn’t drive the vehicle again?

It's possible that LE knew the Challenger and black SUV were not used in the crime but might have wanted to question the owners as to if they observed anything unusual that night. It was stated at the time that LE wanted to question the drivers because they were "in the area that night." LE never said they suspected the drivers of those 2 vehicles were suspects. It's possible LE suspected the Taurus did belong to the killer and were advised (by FBI?) that making this public could result in the suspect killing Jayme and destroying evidence. I think we'll have to wait until we find out exactly what was known by the investigation team at the time that decision was made... because, even now, Sheriff Fitzgerald and the DA are not telling all they knows about many things. (according to DA's news conference.) Jmo.

 

[kkdj]

Yes, i guess it was the complaint, sorry I couldn't think of the name of it! It was when they were describing the clothing found on his property. The license plate was in the garbage can? I could be wrong, but I thought they said they found it there. Imo

Look what I just found! They did find it!

Detective Nelson reports that, throughout the course of the two-day search, a total of 89 pieces of evidence were recovered from the property. Among the items recovered are the following:  Mossberg silver and black colored shotgun and three remaining shotgun shells  Brown colored leather steel toed boots  Black colored jacket  Black colored mask  Stolen license plate  Glow in the dark colored T-handle trunk safety release lever

 

[Seattle1]

Yeah. This was such an unprecedented crime, that if you change your protocols to adjust for it, you may be moving in the wrong direction.

Protocols address the most common types of events, and not necessarily the ones that almost never happen.

I’m not advocating any change in protocal for emergency responders and the public. Had JP not yielded to the ER flashing vehicles, that is a violation that warrants a stop. My position is that JP and his vehicle should have been sought as potential witness similar to the charger and edge vehicles as all were believed in the area. It’s a problem that the only known and/or documented oncoming vehicle on the road was not sought as a witness. Given how quickly JP gave it up, I think even any witness inquiry would have put Investigator on alert to look more into JP. MOO

 

[singlemom]

New article in Chicago Tribune time stamped about two hours ago:

Jayme Closs kidnapping: Complaint that avoided captivity details could offer road map for prosecution

"The decision to leave out a description of what happened in the remote cabin where Jayme was held for almost three months was probably intended to spare her more trauma, said Chris Madel, a prominent defense attorney in Minneapolis.

The details are also unnecessary, he said. Prosecutors already have evidence of two killings that that could put Patterson away for life. The complaint says Patterson admitted to the slayings."