AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #29

[1987]

Could be foreign , could by anything, but only thing they know is bullet/shell...and gun type...

US Shotgun/Italian shotgun wouldn’t show on bullets...

My gun guess is 00 shotgun (could be anything)...

Problem with that is shotgun been around long time. 00 buck list below..

That’s not all too... and sold at wall mart bass pro etc... someone buying little or lot wouldn’t really set off flags..

If they know it’s lead vs steel buckshot
And from shotgun...I don’t know that gives you much... that could encompass deer hunters/turkey/wolf - and home protection.. in that area could be 10 percent of population....

If he has perp... and gun info... could be searching stores close by or gun ranges..worth pursuing but gotta be a grind


12 Gauge Shotgun Shells

but see this would be a easy guess. sheriff said only killer would know.

 

[1987]

I am just thinking if it is something only killer would know if it was maybe out of production, limited production, not imported but made and used else where so uncommon here. I know LE knows, that much is not in question.

 

[Jabarn]

Good question. In general, from what I’ve observed, Websleuthers have a rather high opinion of themselves, as if they’re smarter than LE and, even though they seldom have access to more than a fraction of the evidence, as if they’re about to break a case wide open from their couches at home.

Well, to be fair, most here just want to catch the bad guy. It’s not unhinged, but I get what you are writing. It is important, though, sumzero, to imagine what some of these sleuthers have experienced and why they are here.

Maybe you don't want to make that call because you are friends or family with the suspect. Do Jayme a favor this Christmas and call the tip line with your information."

The toll-free tip line is 1-855-744-3879 or email [email protected]

 

[Maybelline]

I have tried to figure out what would make the firearm so different that it wouldn't be easily guessed or at least good odds of being guessed because sheriff said they were looking for and only the killer would know. could that firearm be a foreign made and used or something firearm? something makes it not common I think with his statement.

Knowing nothing, and I do mean nothing about guns, I wildly googled something and now want to ask about homemade guns or 3D printer guns. Is that possible.

 

[retiredrickyinCO]

In other words, if the shots the Smrekars heard were 'hunters', they were moronic poachers.

Actually it is quite legal to hunt some animals all year long even at night in WI. I know coyotes, fox, raccoons and some other predators can be hunted 24hrs a day. You would have to check the regs as I moved out of the state 50 years ago but yes predator hunting is quite popular with some hunters.

 

[Rubiconbob]

but see this would be a easy guess. sheriff said only killer would know.

Only killer would know lead vs steel bullets..

One thing that might work in Fitzgerald favor is shooting through door...

It’s going to leave distinct pattern.. wad and pellets.. and size of pattern..

If it’s shotgun and he knows ammo.. pattern. May narrow gun manufacturers slightly and whether sawed off or not..

That’d be hard to figure out but maybe worth it...

He’s got bullet going through door then through James... that should give some trajectory... and get close on perp height ??
Dunno... you’d think they know a lot with fbi. Munitions experts on team for month.

 

[retiredrickyinCO]

I have always thought that the perp/perps drove North (where the big search was done) or South on that main North/South road just to the East of the Closs's home( too lazy to look up the Highway #).....MOO

Hi Cody,
Actually I would like to believe that they headed west as the smart money would have LE coming from the east. I know you are thinking the first major N/S road but there is a good chance that is where LE would be coming from and we are talking probably less that a minute from avoiding LE. I would think they would have headed west long enough to get on a smaller N/S road then take that. They would have wanted to avoid Turtle Lake just because the casino has excellent cams where buses load and unload right next to Hwy 8 and it is lighted so the video would be very clear at any time. I also think they would have avoided major N/S roads (the most popular) such as the rabbit trail a few miles west of the Closs home as county sheriffs can be anywhere in the county and they would most likely go on the better roads just because they can go a lot faster.

Also, I mentioned this back at the beginning but most people live off the road say at least 100' and many a lot further. If you have a regular home video surveillance camera and even if it is pointed on the road you will be very disappointed in the image you get in the dark. Remember this is not in town and all kinds of street lights. This is not houses in the city where people are most likely to watch the street with their cameras. Most people out in the country live on acreage and they couldn't care less as to what goes by on the main road. They are more interested in being alerted as to someone coming up their driveway or monitoring their sheds with all their machinery and such. Granted all the convenience stores and gas stations like Kwik-Trip will have good security cams but I doubt the perp(s) stopped for gas or a soda anytime soon after the deed. MOO

 

[*Removed_for_profanity*]

Also, some gun manufacturers have different numbers of lands and grooves even in the same caliber. So, they may know it’s a Smith & Wesson 9mm and not a Glock 9mm for example. Not sure which ones are actually different though.

I had the thought that if it is something that isn’t very common, maybe hitting the shooting ranges with a bucket and calipers might turn something up. It’s a looonnng shot, but what else do they have to do...? I was just thinking that here there’s a lot more people that shoot than have private property to shoot on. Plus, ranges usually have cameras. Might get lucky, match a slug, find a name that pops in some other part of the case and break it wide open. Biggest obstacle would be how long has the slug been there. Like I said, long shot but what else do they have to do other than stare at the phone hoping it rings. Maybe it’s just I’d rather dig in the dirt looking for .357 Sig slugs (or whatever) than watch a phone not ring.

 

[1987]

Also, some gun manufacturers have different numbers of lands and grooves even in the same caliber. So, they may know it’s a Smith & Wesson 9mm and not a Glock 9mm for example. Not sure which ones are actually different though.

I had the thought that if it is something that isn’t very common, maybe hitting the shooting ranges with a bucket and calipers might turn something up. It’s a looonnng shot, but what else do they have to do...? I was just thinking that here there’s a lot more people that shoot than have private property to shoot on. Plus, ranges usually have cameras. Might get lucky, match a slug, find a name that pops in some other part of the case and break it wide open. Biggest obstacle would be how long has the slug been there. Like I said, long shot but what else do they have to do other than stare at the phone hoping it rings. Maybe it’s just I’d rather dig in the dirt looking for .357 Sig slugs (or whatever) than watch a phone not ring.

I agree. if they have something more pressing then by all means that comes first, could be things we don't know that is pressing and being followed on right now. but no evidence in the home so what else to look at, couldn't hurt to have a look around at the range or a common shooting site if there is public land that is commonly used for shooting, might be dead end, might get lucky. I keep going back to the firearm because it seems it is the only rock solid thing they got.

 

[The Dude]

Actually it is quite legal to hunt some animals all year long even at night in WI. I know coyotes, fox, raccoons and some other predators can be hunted 24hrs a day. You would have to check the regs as I moved out of the state 50 years ago but yes predator hunting is quite popular with some hunters.

Yes, of course. I guess I just have a hard time believing that what the Smrekars heard was someone blasting raccoons in the middle of the night at approximately the same time as their next door neighbors were being murdered. I’d like to think that every neighbor in the vicinity has been interviewed and asked if they discharged any weapons, no?

 

[cody22]

Hello ricky, You may be right on everything. I feel the perp/perps knew that at that time of the morning, LE would only be coming from the East. I think they went North fairly close to the Closs home mainly because of the big 2,00o people search LE went through in that area, fairly early on. I also think that if that 911 call had not been made, that Jayme would have also been killed, after a period of time, in that house....... I do not really know either, of course. I sure hope we get to find out someday. It does not look promising at this time..... I hate to see this case go cold.

 

[retiredrickyinCO]

Yes, of course. I guess I just have a hard time believing that what the Smrekars heard was someone blasting raccoons in the middle of the night at approximately the same as their next door neighbors were being murdered. I’d like to think that every neighbor in the vicinity has been interviewed and asked if they discharged any weapons, no?

Absolutely as although predator hunting is common it is not that common. Hunters do travel quite a ways to hunt them but if you are hunting on private land that isn't yours the owner would most certainly know. But there is no doubt in my mind the shots the Smreakers heard were the ones that killed James and most likely Denise.I know the time 12:38 has been quoted but I still think she misread the clock and it was 12:58 as the difference between 12:38 and 12:58 on a digital clock is 1 vertical segment. They are an older couple and had just got home from being out so quite possibly had a few drinks, anything. She just glanced at the clock and didn't think any more about it until the next morning when LE came to question them. But I'm certain the shots she heard were the fatal shots fired and she just misread the time.

 

[human]

That's interesting I think. How long ago?

If you look on that real estate site, it says the house sold Nov 12

 

[retiredrickyinCO]

Hello ricky, You may be right on everything. I feel the perp/perps knew that at that time of the morning, LE would only be coming from the East. I think they went North fairly close to the Closs home mainly because of the big 2,00o people search LE went through in that area, fairly early on. I also think that if that 911 call had not been made, that Jayme would have also been killed, after a period of time, in that house....... I do not really know either, of course. I sure hope we get to find out someday. It does not look promising at this time..... I hate to see this case go cold.

This case really hits home to me as although I did not know the Closs family I grew up there and call it home. I just hope that LE has more than we would like to believe. they have said there is no DNA, footprints, fingerprints, anything left behind. I can't hardly believe that with all the resources they used and they went over the house 2 or 3 different times with different teams to get a new look. I guess it is possible there was nothing left behind but that dosen't seem very probable. But even if there wasn't anything left behind they still have all the digging into all known people that interfaced with them through work,school, church, or other activities such as business associates or whatever. I still think it was either one or both of the parents that were specifically targeted. Like you I hope it doesn't go cold and am standing by my initial prediction that it will be solved in 6 months.

 

[cody22]

This case really hits home to me as although I did not know the Closs family I grew up there and call it home. I just hope that LE has more than we would like to believe. they have said there is no DNA, footprints, fingerprints, anything left behind. I can't hardly believe that with all the resources they used and they went over the house 2 or 3 different times with different teams to get a new look. I guess it is possible there was nothing left behind but that dosen't seem very probable. But even if there wasn't anything left behind they still have all the digging into all known people that interfaced with them through work,school, church, or other activities such as business associates or whatever. I still think it was either one or both of the parents that were specifically targeted. Like you I hope it doesn't go cold and am standing by my initial prediction that it will be solved in 6 months.

I sure hope you are right about the solving...... I too feel that one or both of the parents were the main targets, with Jayme also being a target of sexual dishonor/revenge and then death, because of the the parents past disrespect/dishonor, in the perp's mind. The 911 call delayed that happening inside the house.......MOO at this time.

 

[Wrenny]

I don't have the link or exact quote but to the effect of not telling what kind was used because only the killer would know. common ones I would think would have a fair chance at just being guessed.

Ok I found it in the DM which means I take it with a very large grain of salt. But the quote from the DM, is "Only the killer is going to know that and that's information we have to hold close to the case so that when we catch this person we can convict them." Questions like that help them get the right person.

 

[1987]

Ok I found it in the DM which means I take it with a very large grain of salt. But the quote from the DM, is "Only the killer is going to know that and that's information we have to hold close to the case so that when we catch this person we can convict them." Questions like that help them get the right person.

I understand, but if it was common and they had a false confession then I would think the odds would be high of a just a guess getting it right. I would think there would be four groups of guesses, not including brands, 12ga shotgun, 9mm handgun, ak type, and a much smaller group of other type. even if the odds were 1 in 10 would be a correct guess how reliable could knowing the type of firearm be? this is what makes me think it isn't a common one.

 

[cody22]

There is also a good chance that the perp/perps traveled South on backroads to the Eau Claire, Wisconsin area...MOO at this time.

 

[MesquiteO21]

FBI spent 30 days with all the evidence... they left town and gave 4 possible profiles...
So FBI didn’t have gut instinct.. ? What the

I wonder if fitz and co have consulted the ATF...gonna take a guess and say it's likely the perp didn't obtain the gun legally. Well, could've but even so, type of weapon does go into building an offender profile. And with all due respect to the FBI, I'd think the ATF may have a better idea of the type of person who uses a certain firearm. Or maybe the FBI does consult with the ATF to build that profile..hm. Sorry, didn't mean to put this all on you Rubiconbob, you just sparked my thinking..

 

[Rubiconbob]

I wonder if fitz and co have consulted the ATF...gonna take a guess and say it's likely the perp didn't obtain the gun legally. Well, could've but even so, type of weapon does go into building an offender profile. And with all due respect to the FBI, I'd think the ATF may have a better idea of the type of person who uses a certain firearm. Or maybe the FBI does consult with the ATF to build that profile..hm. Sorry, didn't mean to put this all on you Rubiconbob, you just sparked my thinking..

Understanding the Why and How Behind FBI Ammo Testing Standards

Looks like feds have some stuff at the ready..
Unless they get DNA from ammo or shell casings..I don’t see them breaking case if ammo/guns are common... who knows maybe perp Trashes gun then someone ask for it and they stumble for reason they don’t have ... I dunno .. my guess is the loser is a sociopath sleeping like a kitten...