AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #30

[Forpsy]

Espeically in being so neat and careful, and in not taking the small valuables that were visible, according to the sheriff. Those meth heads usually tear into a place, doing damage and grabbing what they can sell. Not nearly shoot two people amd remove a third. This was very personal, imo, or someone just determined to get Jayme and nothing else.

That is what I thought. Expeditious. Just get right to the point. Boom.

 

[Andreee]

I disagree, I think Jayme was the target but I also feel that James and Denise were secondary targets. IMO, someone wanted Jayme but had felt thwarted by James and Denise, so they were ki

Perhaps the perp wanted Jayme and the only way he felt she would be compliant enough to go with him was to murder her parents right in front of her....shock and scare her nearly to death.[/QUO

I believe it was a targeted attack and the perp(s) went straight to the house - they knew exactly where they were going. I don't think the girls were related in any way to the crime just curious as to what was going on, but as you say where did they keep turning round to carry on driving past the Closs property?

I agree that the 2 girls were just seeking drama and being noisey! I well recall being that age, and wanting to know what's going on around town, particularly at nighttime lol. I think the local police, as in other small towns, know many of the locals, including inquisitive teens.

 

[Forpsy]

I agree except for one thing...if ur kicking door in.. and shooting through door.. not exactly the best plan or execution... and if the first thing u hear after killing 2 people is “baron county 911 what’s your emergency”. Your gut instinct probably says forget everything... bolt ... cops are 3 miles away..

Also think it’s crime of passion...

Why so you think it is a crime of passion if I may ask?

 

[mom2chloe]

Either James opened the door or it was kicked in. It can’t be both although I am open to suggestions. This was personal and I continue to lean toward whistle blowing <modsnip: removed rumor>Regardless, it doesn’t answer the question of where is Jayme but perhaps explains why she too was not killed.

 

[Gardener1850]

Wait, what? Jayme had a caretaker? Why?

It was a couple years ago IIRC. We have speculated that caretaker is just fancy speak for "person who is legally allowed to pick Jayme up from school other than her parents". In Wisconsin parents can legally choose to send their kids to a school outside the district they live in IF the person responsible for childcare lives in that outside district. Jayme's aunt lived in Cameron when she was younger so Jayme was allowed to go to school there. Some have said the schools were slightly better there but it also could have been for convenience if her aunt watched after Jayme and if the aunt had her own kids in the same school. We have no confirmation, but speculation is her aunt picked her up from school when her parents were both working-- being employed in a factory they may have had overnight shifts from time to time and you shouldn't let a child under 10 stay overnight alone.

Anyway, a couple years ago Jayme's aunt moved to Barron school district which meant Jayme could no longer legally attend Cameron schools. She switched to Barron and started riding the bus to and from school instead. Now that she was 13 she would also get herself ready on her own and wait for the bus on her own anyway. People have made far too big of deal over this caretaker thing IMO. The only reason the sheriff mentioned it was because they had people questioning employees in both schools and it was explained Jayme had switched schools when her "caretaker" moved. The only thing I think could possibly be relevant is that Jayme started waiting for the bus in front of her house in the last year or so. It's possible that is where the perp saw her-- waiting on the busy HWY road. JMO.

 

[Jabarn]

Espeically in being so neat and careful, and in not taking the small valuables that were visible, according to the sheriff. Those meth heads usually tear into a place, doing damage and grabbing what they can sell. Not nearly shoot two people amd remove a third. This was very personal, imo, or someone just determined to get Jayme and nothing else.

What else make sense? I know the FBI has developed separate profiles (none released) based on various motives (because the means and opportunity seem apparent).

So back to motive. That’s the missing part. I do tend toward a cold blooded murder against the parents. Why Jayme wasn’t killed might suggest is the part to examine, IMO. Maybe the plan (I do think this was a planned crime) didn’t involve the 911 call, or how Jayme would react. No way to know for now, but something has to make sense at some point.

 

[The Dude]

White? or black?

So here’s the deal - I stand corrected on the model. Denise had a white Ford Escape. The police log recorded her license plate the night of the murders. According to the WI DMV, that plate number is registered to a black Toyota. I’m not sure, though, if we’re allowed to discuss this.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I heard the sheriff say, or saw in quotes, that James and Denise were killed instantly. I wish someone who has been on the thread the whole time could help me with the link. It may have been in a radio interview. Anyway, he was clear about it. It may be how they determined a timeline, i.e body temperature already cooling a little bit but not much. Jmo

Anyone here from day one? I did not imagine this...jmo

No you didn't imagine it, but it was stated that James and Denise died instantly from their wounds not necessarily that they died instantly during the crime. I'm guessing they died instantly from the type of gunshot they received ie head chest etc. HTH

 

[Andreee]

It was a couple years ago IIRC. We have speculated that caretaker is just fancy speak for "person who is legally allowed to pick Jayme up from school other than her parents". In Wisconsin parents can legally choose to send their kids to a school outside the district they live in IF the person responsible for childcare lives in that outside district. Jayme's aunt lived in Cameron when she was younger so Jayme was allowed to go to school there. Some have said the schools were slightly better there but it also could have been for convince if her aunt watched after Jayme and if the aunt had her own kids in the same school. We have no confirmation, but speculation is her aunt picked her up from school when her parents were both working-- being employed in a factory they may have had overnight shifts from time to time and you shouldn't let a child under 10 stay overnight alone.

Anyway, a couple years ago Jayme's aunt moved to Barron school district which meant Jayme could no longer legally attend Cameron schools. She switched to Barron and started riding the bus to and from school instead. Now that she was 13 she would also get herself ready on her own and wait for the bus on her own anyway. People have made far too big of deal over this caretaker thing IMO. The only reason the sheriff mentioned it was because they had people questioning employees in both schools and it was explained Jayme had switched school when her "caretaker" moved. The only thing I think could possible be relevant is that Jayme started waiting for the bus in front of her house in the last year or so. It's possible that is where the perp saw her-- waiting on the busy HWY road. JMO.

 

[Gardener1850]

I looked up the number listed on the call log. Denise Closs. James's is also listed as well as Cheyenne's. It's on the first page.

Yes, I found it here: http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/barron+county+call+log.pdf#page=1&zoom=auto,792,711

Denise's plate is 930RNG.

But where do you access the DMV records, please?

Are you thinking maybe the perp stole Denise's license plate to put on their own vehicle?

 

[LadyNada]

First - shout out to those who already have mentioned that the perps managed to leave so little DNA: suggests planned, suggests people who know how to not contaminate an area: people who might work at a meat processing plant, or hospital staff, and have access to 'scrubs'.

Having said that - I'm off on a tangent....I will try to minimize speaking of a former case, but it is integral to my entire point: but I'll endeavor to

I am referencing the Short murders: mother, father shot dead in home, daughter missing: found almost two months later in October 2002, shot in the back of the head as her parents had been, it could not be determined if she was sexually assaulted due to decomposition.

Soooo: Here we have a mother, a father shot dead, they too have a single child a daughter: missing. Mother and father also have an age difference (14 in Short case, 10 in Closs)

Mother's both work/ed in a factory plant......

Both crimes happened on the 15th (& to play numerology games August (month of Short murders) = 8, October= 10....18...2018 Now sounds silly to us, but to some psychopath, maybe not so much so)

Both homes are on thoroughfares - the Closs less so than the other case (Short case many gas stations etc seemed like big place for travellers to stop)

the Short murders had a fresh press release on October 1 of this year, just prior to the anniversary of finding Jennifer

Now: here's what I'm thinking: possible Closs perp read that October 1st article & got 'inspired'.....

OR WHAT IF
our perp is one & the same....

I think presumably a he, is a resident of Barron: now maybe previously he was a resident of Martinsville, VA : this theory is if he was a former co-worker of Mary Short & moved to Barron later

I lean toward the perp being a truck driver - and has been based in Barron for awhile

Short owned a mobile home moving service: if not mistaken there is one nearby the Closs home (?) he would know/employ truckers, they would know truckers themselves and so on: a network

The perp saw their target (being the girl in the respective cases) & became obsessed

In Jayme's case: I was hesitant because I felt a pedophile profile for abducting a 9 year old versus 13 would be very different...however, Short case was 16 years ago....our perp may have changed
OR

our perp may have noticed Jayme years ago, but because this is his 'backyard', his home town, he feels too risky......

who knows why, maybe the Short murders being in the news, it being October, etc. or maybe even that Jayme is growing up: but he decides to act....

Here's the thing though, motive: is the perp a pedophile, or did he wish, in both cases, to silence the family, and make it look pedophile, sexual in nature when it was not???

Possible...but..

if this is the same perp, there are too many similarities: it just so happens that a man of a certain age who just so happens to have a younger wife of a certain age who just so happens to have a single child who is a girl also just so happens to know stuff about you that will ruin your life.....not likely.....

So: motive
1.) copy cat, perp was inspired by Short murders a) it was to silence the Closs family b) the target was indeed Jayme

2.) Said perp saw the girl(s) became obsessed and used this method to abduct them (admittedly odd method, plus, how often do pedophiles kill the children with gun shots? re: short case)

3.) In both cases, if same perp, said perp was initially drawn to the mother, rebuffed, sought revenge & took the daughter as 'consolation'

In both cases the crime is controlled, quick - done in the night......this is no bumbling idiot with a gun, but someone who can use one efficiently and 'execute' his mission

If this IS the same perp, and he has been a long time resident of Barron (maybe a truck driver or at the plant) he may see Jayme, the similarities, whether drawn to Denise initially or Jayme herself, and the circumstances of their lives, etc and think it's a 'redo': that this time Jayme will be his bride and be groomed to be his wife......

OR

Perp thinks he's 'so smart' and right around the anniversary of Jennifer being found, same month & same day of previous murders is compelled to 'copy cat' himself....

Thanks for humoring me!! Thank goodness we have this place, this forum

Either way.....there are much too many 'coincidences' here...this is either the same perp or a copy cat....IMO

(want to add that in the Short case the fact the FBI etc were later convicted of drug dealing & etc really taints the entire case, but...I don't think it detracts from my theories )
I hope this all makes some sense...It's pretty complex, but I feel hamstrung with following TOS rules (though I am glad they exist all the same)

Hi @ Nerissa........your above post is very similar to @jdglove post on earlier Thread 18, Page 49, Post 963......... check it out......

MOO
BBM

 

[Jabarn]

So here’s the deal - I stand corrected on the model. Denise had a white Ford Escape. The police log recorded her license plate the night of the murders. According to the WI DMV, that plate number is registered to a black Toyota. I’m not sure, though, if we’re allowed to discuss this.

I think if you can provide a link to your source, it’s allowable, and might make a difference.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Why so you think it is a crime of passion if I may ask?

Just a feeling ... they knew who was in house..

Also knew there 3 miles away from
Cops...and still said let’s go..

Could be wrong and it was just to get to the girl...or just drug dealers pissed off.. or an epically bad robbery..

 

[The Dude]

I think if you can provide a link to your source, it’s allowable, and might make a difference.

Well that’s a relief. I must have imagined deleted posts! The link has been posted at least twice just a few pages ago.

 

[The Dude]

Just a feeling ... they knew who was in house..

Also knew there 3 miles away from
Cops...and still said let’s go..

Could be wrong and it was just to get to the girl...or just drug dealers pissed off.. or an epically bad robbery..

It could have also been well planned and executed.

 

[Lillymac]

Yes, I found it here: http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/barron+county+call+log.pdf#page=1&zoom=auto,792,711

Denise's plate is 930RNG.

But where do you access the DMV records, please?

Are you thinking maybe the perp stole Denise's license plate to put on their own vehicle?

Wisconsin DMV or just Google it. Sorry I missed what you were asking.
I just thought it was strange and wanted to know if anyone else had seen it and what they thought. I wondered if it could be a typo. Just thought it odd.

 

[Forpsy]

It was a couple years ago IIRC. We have speculated that caretaker is just fancy speak for "person who is legally allowed to pick Jayme up from school other than her parents". In Wisconsin parents can legally choose to send their kids to a school outside the district they live in IF the person responsible for childcare lives in that outside district. Jayme's aunt lived in Cameron when she was younger so Jayme was allowed to go to school there. Some have said the schools were slightly better there but it also could have been for convenience if her aunt watched after Jayme and if the aunt had her own kids in the same school. We have no confirmation, but speculation is her aunt picked her up from school when her parents were both working-- being employed in a factory they may have had overnight shifts from time to time and you shouldn't let a child under 10 stay overnight alone.

Anyway, a couple years ago Jayme's aunt moved to Barron school district which meant Jayme could no longer legally attend Cameron schools. She switched to Barron and started riding the bus to and from school instead. Now that she was 13 she would also get herself ready on her own and wait for the bus on her own anyway. People have made far too big of deal over this caretaker thing IMO. The only reason the sheriff mentioned it was because they had people questioning employees in both schools and it was explained Jayme had switched schools when her "caretaker" moved. The only thing I think could possibly be relevant is that Jayme started waiting for the bus in front of her house in the last year or so. It's possible that is where the perp saw her-- waiting on the busy HWY road. JMO.

Thank you for the caretaker info. It makes sense. I too think the killer(s) watched her get on and/or off the buss.

 

[Gardener1850]

I guess Wisconsin lets you put your old plates on a different car you buy?

Wisconsin License Plates & Placards Information | DMV.ORG

Is the above link the link that is being used to look up plates? That is not the WI DMV website...
It clearly says at the top it is a Private Website not owned or operated by any state government agency.

 

[mtnlites]

Either James opened the door or it was kicked in. It can’t be both although I am open to suggestions. This was personal and I continue to lean toward whistle blowing <modsnip: removed rumor> Regardless, it doesn’t answer the question of where is Jayme but perhaps explains why she too was not killed.

It *could* be both. He could have originally opened the door and then immediatly shut it upon seeing who was there, thus nesscitating the perp's need to kick it in.

 

[Forpsy]

It was a couple years ago IIRC. We have speculated that caretaker is just fancy speak for "person who is legally allowed to pick Jayme up from school other than her parents". In Wisconsin parents can legally choose to send their kids to a school outside the district they live in IF the person responsible for childcare lives in that outside district. Jayme's aunt lived in Cameron when she was younger so Jayme was allowed to go to school there. Some have said the schools were slightly better there but it also could have been for convenience if her aunt watched after Jayme and if the aunt had her own kids in the same school. We have no confirmation, but speculation is her aunt picked her up from school when her parents were both working-- being employed in a factory they may have had overnight shifts from time to time and you shouldn't let a child under 10 stay overnight alone.

Anyway, a couple years ago Jayme's aunt moved to Barron school district which meant Jayme could no longer legally attend Cameron schools. She switched to Barron and started riding the bus to and from school instead. Now that she was 13 she would also get herself ready on her own and wait for the bus on her own anyway. People have made far too big of deal over this caretaker thing IMO. The only reason the sheriff mentioned it was because they had people questioning employees in both schools and it was explained Jayme had switched schools when her "caretaker" moved. The only thing I think could possibly be relevant is that Jayme started waiting for the bus in front of her house in the last year or so. It's possible that is where the perp saw her-- waiting on the busy HWY road. JMO.

Thank you for the caretaker info. It makes sense. I too think the killer(s) watched her get on and/or off the buss.