GUILTY WI - LAKE GENEVA SUITCASE MURDERS, Laura Simonson & Jenny Gamez - #2

[believe09]

I hope that this is because there is something hot they are following up on or they have ruled it out. We will see for sure.

My head got stuck on the car(s) ...... which led me to wonder where he had driven..... which made me wonder if he had ever driven to Canada or Mexico ?
Canada is not far from SZ's residence so it bothers me a little that I have not heard anything about LE connecting with Canadian LE to investigate the possibility of other victims.
There does not seem to be any coordinated effort by LE

 

[NotMeAnymore]

Where the bodies were stored when not in the trunk of his car has not been elaborated upon by LE

"Zelich reportedly met one woman a year and a half ago, killed her, and kept her body in both his car and his home, cops said. "

Source: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...ect-murders-women-suitcases-article-1.1845515

That's so weird because I could have sworn that I read something that mentioned LE saying that he had kept the bodies in an upright freezer for part of the time but I can't find it anywhere. Must have been a blank that I filled in myself and my mind tricked me into thinking I had read it. So it is even more vague than I thought. How frustrating.

 

[believe09]

I am hoping that LE has been searching for any rentals of anything in the names of the women that SZ knew or was associated with. Maybe he was just arrogant enough to do it all in his own name.

 

[believe09]

I am pretty sure that we have a photo of LE carrying an upright freezer out of his home.

 

[Sos]

That's so weird because I could have sworn that I read something that mentioned LE saying that he had kept the bodies in an upright freezer for part of the time but I can't find it anywhere. Must have been a blank that I filled in myself and my mind tricked me into thinking I had read it. So it is even more vague than I thought. How frustrating.

I caught myself doing that too because of the crime scene photo of LE taking the fridge or freezer but LE has not yet shared any details about how the victims were stored besides the description of them when they were found
(that I can find)
Yes - very frustrating

 

[Aeronomy]

Police said he kept them in a freezer before dumping them in suitcases.
Read more: http://www.wisn.com/news/documents-...officer-harassed-women/26874268#ixzz37AM9PhfM

 

[NotMeAnymore]

Police said he kept them in a freezer before dumping them in suitcases.
Read more: http://www.wisn.com/news/documents-...officer-harassed-women/26874268#ixzz37AM9PhfM

There it is. Thank you, Aeronomy! I couldn't find that for the life of me.

 

[Judy]

Okay = Here is a theory…and only a theory.

Knowing SZ’s thought process of wanting total domination, total ownership, and his threats of, “there is no going back” could it be possible that at some point he snapped? Could it be possible he drugged these women and put them in suitcases, took them out and froze them (still alive) believing he’d be able to thaw them at a later time for his pleasure (sadistic pleasure)?

Another theory…He had sex with them in the frozen state (possibly after death).

Just speculation!!! It seems like he wasn't really into this for the sex as much as he was focused on the CONQUEST and SADISM and DOMINANCE. He's been described as "extreme, rough and careless." I think we are looking at an extremely sick individual.

 

[Judy]

I don't think he shared much with anybody. As he told JSR he didn't really mesh well with other people in the BDSM community because of how extreme his interests were. He never talked about anybody else he knew in the community to me. I'm pretty sure that the pics were to keep for himself.

In my case, we never had a safe word, as I said earlier I never used safe words with anybody. It was reckless and stupid but I didn't care because I was deep into a downward spiral. It was discussed several times that if I were to give him the word and let him abduct me that there would be no way out after that. It would be for good. I don't know for sure how strict he would have been about that but I believed him when he said there was no way out.

This got me thinking - he may have (in the beginning) been into BDSM but it became more about the extreme (irrational and delusional) form of dominance.

 

[Judy]

I know this wasn't intended for me but I can help to answer some of these from the time I was with him.

Was he considerate when not in a scene or did he stay in his dominant role all of the time? - Just speaking for myself on this one but he didn't stay in his dominant role all the time. We had regular conversations and did normal things.

What kind of cigs did he smoke? Did he drink alcohol while you were together? - He smoked Camel Lights and he rarely drank.

What did he watch on TV, regular programs or ? What did he wear? Did he travel with a lot of luggage / props? - He watched normal television programs. Mostly movies though. Never on DVD or TV but he would watch on DeviceBondage.com. He usually wore khaki's and a collar shirt. He did travel with a suitcase full of 'toys'.

Do you get the impression that Zelich networked with other dominants seeking slaves? - He once told me that he doesn't like to speak with other 'Masters' because they don't have the same views as he does. They just don't get why he wants a total and complete slave. He never talked about buying or selling slaves.

This too - he wasn't in the mindset of BDSM Masters.

 

[KDub]

At the point of decomp that these poor women were in, there is no possible way of knowing if they were drugged or not, is there?

 

[Judy]

I guess we won't know until it's determined when he took them from the freezer and how long they were in the car.

 

[OkieGranny]

At the point of decomp that these poor women were in, there is no possible way of knowing if they were drugged or not, is there?

As long as there's tissue left, I think it can be tested. Maybe not 100% accurate levels due to decomp, but at least detectable.

 

[Brightbird]

Okay = Here is a theory…and only a theory.

Knowing SZ’s thought process of wanting total domination, total ownership, and his threats of, “there is no going back” could it be possible that at some point he snapped? Could it be possible he drugged these women and put them in suitcases, took them out and froze them (still alive) believing he’d be able to thaw them at a later time for his pleasure (sadistic pleasure)?

Another theory…He had sex with them in the frozen state (possibly after death).

Just speculation!!! It seems like he wasn't really into this for the sex as much as he was focused on the CONQUEST and SADISM. He's been described as "extreme, rough and careless." I think we are looking at an extremely sick individual.

Wow, hadn't thought of anything like that! I definitely think that ownership and total domination was what he wanted, and I agree he is sadistic. I tend to think that he couldn't find anyone who would submit to him to the extent that he needed. I think his frustrations kept escalating, and his fetishes along with it, until it resulted in death of these two women and possibly others. He may have drugged them if he thought that was the way to get what he wanted. I'm not suggesting any accidental death, it's definitely murder to me. But I'm intrigued by what NMA said about being more interested in the aesthetics than the girls wellbeing/comfort. That says to me that he would take things to an extreme level where his 'slave' could die because he is too focussed on his own pleasure, a huge part of which is the sadism. I do toss this up against him actually getting off on letting the victims die. That could be part of his fetish, but who knows. I'm not sure what I think of him keeping their bodies. I suppose a lot of forensic tests have been done to see whether their bodies were interfered with (other than the obvious keeping and disposing their bodies). Also, I'm not really sure that the girl kept in a cage for seven years actually existed. I think that perhaps he used the story of the girl in a cage, and some pictures, to try and reassure or convince other girls to do it because that's what he was ultimately after.

 

[Judy]

Other bodily fluids and organs may provide samples, particularly samples collected during an autopsy. A common autopsy sample is the gastric contents of the deceased, which can be useful for detecting undigested pills or liquids that were ingested prior to death. In highly decomposed bodies, traditional samples may no longer be available. The vitreous humour from the eye may be used, as the fibrous layer of the eyeball and the eye socket of the skull protects the sample from trauma and adulteration. Other common organs used for toxicology are the brain, liver, and spleen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_toxicology

 

[Sos]

Contemplating how SZ evoled into who he is reminded me of the 10 year divorce his parents had suggesting to me that his Father might have been a very controlling individual - in my opinion SZ may have picked up some of those character traits from his father

 

[Judy]

I’m really starting to believe that freezing the women was HIS BELIEF that this way he could keep them forever. Then, he came to realize LE was hot on his tail and that’s the only reason he took them out of the freezer.
:thinking:
(Just more speculation) -

Well - it also explains why he didn't call 911. :thinking:

 

[OkieGranny]

Contemplating how SZ evoled into who he is reminded me of the 10 year divorce his parents had suggesting to me that his Father might have been a very controlling individual - in my opinion SZ may have picked up some of those character traits from his father

Something I've wondered about as well.

 

[OhThatVictoria]

I too believe that SZ stood in the shadow of his Father. And, as LE officer, he just didn't cut it. (He didn't cut it in business either.) His mounting failures fueled frustration and anger which were then channeled into darker and darker fantasies. His track record with women is also questionable. Certainly his behavior of stalking women, while in LE, demonstrated that he lacked an emotional filter and he enjoyed the fear and discomfort that he evoked in his targeted victims. He liked power and felt that wearing a badge afforded him power.

Women rejected his advances and he finally found a niche where he could fit in, BDSM. The world of BDSM allowed him the opportunity to create a DOMINANT role in life, take what he wanted. He didn't follow the rules of the BDSM culture like he didn't follow the rules while in LE.

As far as the bodies are concerned, hard to say whether he just couldn't figure out what to do with them (I find that hard to believe and I'm sure his defense will use that excuse) or if he was using them as "trophies", a reminder of his prowess and control over his victims.

 

[OhThatVictoria]

That reminds me of a point that's been nagging at the back of my mind. He was hauled into court numerous times on financial issues, but it's still not clear to me if he was living beyond his means or if he was just careless about paying off certain debts. I wonder how much he inherited, if anything, from his dad's estate.

His financial situation is also a big void to me in this case. He rented so where was all of his money going? I'd like to know more about all the reasons he was in court . . . his financial / bank records will prove interesting.