WI - Madison, school shooting at Abundant Life Christian School 16 Dec 2024

[Trino]

The people she's left in her wake probably think she's evil.

The boy who committed a shooting at my junior high in 1972 didn't commit suicide, then or ever, to my knowledge. I went there just a few years later, and never knew about it until I read about it on that school's Facebook page. He didn't shoot anyone, but he did fire a few bullets into a wall before a teacher tackled him.

Do people forget or not want to remember?

 

[airportwoman]

Do people forget or not want to remember?

Probably a little of both.

The story I got was that a boy who was being bullied brought a rifle to school with a target in mind, and thankfully was stopped before he actually shot anybody. Several kids had minor injuries from jumping out a first-floor window.

 

[Trino]

Probably a little of both.

The story I got was that a boy who was being bullied brought a rifle to school with a target in mind, and thankfully was stopped before he actually shot anybody. Several kids had minor injuries from jumping out a first-floor window.

Oh, wow. That is frightening. 1972 things were much different, of course. I would guess the school took precautions, although I doubt like today.

There are a many kids with undiagnosed problems, and you don't always know. Some mature, grow out of problems, but stats tell us (2023) that one in three US adults has a criminal record. That is 80 million people. Astounding. Truthfully, do we even know our neighbors?

I try to focus on kids that have made it in life, but I actually taught 4 murderers, one was an A student. Never would have guessed. Three of the four happened after they graduated, but one happened in Grade 9 (not at school).

 

[Rosydecember]

I try to focus on kids that have made it in life, but I actually taught 4 murderers, one was an A student. Never would have guessed. Three of the four happened after they graduated, but one happened in Grade 9 (not at school).

SBMFF wow 4 murderers. I’m intrigued… any details you can share? I’m wondering if more like DUI/reckless homicide, or domestic violence, or what.

 

[Trino]

SBMFF wow 4 murderers. I’m intrigued… any details you can share? I’m wondering if more like DUI/reckless homicide, or domestic violence, or what.

One death was rape. Internal injuries. Victim bled to death. Prison lifer.
Another, "A" student, was at a party, argument, went home and got an assault rifle, back to party and killed. Prison lifer.
9th grader killed a pizza delivery guy for cash. Summer between 9th and 10th grade. He was 16. Happened years ago. In juvenile for a while, then jail. He's out now.
I don't recall the last exact details/circumstances nor sentence, gang related death. Years ago.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

"The two individuals who sustained injuries in the Abundant Life Christian School shooting are now in fair condition," said the statement. "The families ask for continued respect for their privacy and thank American Family Children’s Hospital for their continued excellent care.

Condition of two survivors of Abundant Life school shooting in Madison improving, hospital says

The two students had been listed in critical condition since the Dec. 16 shooting.

www.jsonline.com

 

[Incredholt]

Investigation continues into San Diego man's ties to Wisconsin school shooter​

A Carlsbad man apologized Friday for his connection to a 15-year-old girl who fatally shot a teacher and fellow student at a religious school in Wisconsin, telling a judge that he was prepared to accept the consequences of his actions without explaining his precise role.

Investigation ongoing into Carlsbad man accused of messaging Wisconsin school shooter

A criminal investigation remains ongoing into a Carlsbad man accused of communicating with a 15-year-old girl behind a deadly school shooting in Wisconsin last month, authorities said in a court hearing Friday.

www.nbcsandiego.com

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Alexander Paffendorf expressed regret for his involvement when a judge offered a chance for final words before keeping an order to confiscate his guns and ammunition in place until April 4. He didn't elaborate in his brief statement but authorities have said he told FBI agents that he had been messaging Natalie Rupnow, the Wisconsin shooter, about attacking a government building with a gun and explosives.
<modsnip - copyright>

California man apologizes for connection to Wisconsin school shooting without detailing his actions

The student at Abundant Life Christian School in Madison killed a 14-year-old freshman and 42-year-old teacher and severely injured two other students.

www.kare11.com

 

[Trino]

Alexander Paffendorf expressed regret for his involvement when a judge offered a chance for final words before keeping an order to confiscate his guns and ammunition in place until April 4. He didn't elaborate in his brief statement but authorities have said he told FBI agents that he had been messaging Natalie Rupnow, the Wisconsin shooter, about attacking a government building with a gun and explosives.
<modsnip - copyright>

California man apologizes for connection to Wisconsin school shooting without detailing his actions

The student at Abundant Life Christian School in Madison killed a 14-year-old freshman and 42-year-old teacher and severely injured two other students.

www.kare11.com

Sounds like the guy didn't really a)understand the girl's mental state or b)didn't really believe she was serious. Maybe he just wasn't that smart either.

 

[Charlot123]

Sounds like the guy didn't really a)understand the girl's mental state or b)didn't really believe she was serious. Maybe he just wasn't that smart either.

That we don’t know. IMHO he was instigating her. His social age might be lagging behind his biological one, but he knew she was a depressed child. He is 20; she was 15, and I believe he knows right from wrong. No social media.

Michelle Carter in MA got a prison sentence for inciting a death. She didn’t push a suicidal boy to kill himself and others, her goal was to support his wish to commit own suicide in order to come forward as his ex and to gain sympathy and attention, but words have consequences. He killed himself.

 

[CrimeJunkie82]

I'm a retired teacher (36 years), and I have contempled your born evil vs environment several times.

One prime example I recall was a high school druggie, runaway, in trouble at school, school transferred twice, never graduated female. She even lied in one school encounter and said her mother was dead. Mother had to prove to school she was her mother. In juvenile detention center. Psychiatric help did nothing.

Now, at age 45, this woman is an alcoholic, cheated on all prior husbands, one cheat with brother of husband. On another cheating episode she actually had her husband take her to airport, pick her up after a fake business trip, which was nothing more than spending a week with another man. She is now onto marriage #4. She constantly lies about education and experience on resumes. I know her family who have totally disconnected with her after she cheated with her sister's fiance, ending that relationship. This female's brothers and sister didn't get into trouble in school, are normal people with normal jobs and children. They had the same environment, a stable family. So, was she born evil?

My sister and I were both brought up in the same household and given the same chances at life as well. She is an alcoholic and a drug addict who was charged with attempted murder on me..so I honestly cant answer that question about being born evil as there are MANY examples, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacey, just to name a few...

 

[Trino]

That we don’t know. IMHO he was instigating her. His social age might be lagging behind his biological one, but he knew she was a depressed child. He is 20; she was 15, and I believe he knows right from wrong. No social media.

Michelle Carter in MA got a prison sentence for inciting a death. She didn’t push a suicidal boy to kill himself and others, her goal was to support his wish to commit own suicide in order to come forward as his ex and to gain sympathy and attention, but words have consequences. He killed himself.

IMO you are correct, but this needs to be sorted legally, especially him not being a psychologist/psychiatrist and knowing she was depressed. An attorney would burn that idea.

 

[CrimeJunkie82]

Investigation continues into San Diego man's ties to Wisconsin school shooter​

A Carlsbad man apologized Friday for his connection to a 15-year-old girl who fatally shot a teacher and fellow student at a religious school in Wisconsin, telling a judge that he was prepared to accept the consequences of his actions without explaining his precise role.

Investigation ongoing into Carlsbad man accused of messaging Wisconsin school shooter

A criminal investigation remains ongoing into a Carlsbad man accused of communicating with a 15-year-old girl behind a deadly school shooting in Wisconsin last month, authorities said in a court hearing Friday.

www.nbcsandiego.com

I honestly believe that he may have not realized her mental state or anything really about her and she was just using him for possible tips and pointers on how to execute her plan all along..

 

[Trino]

I honestly believe that he may have not realized her mental state or anything really about her and she was just using him for possible tips and pointers on how to execute her plan all along..

This is not the old days. You really can't say for certain who you are talking to online. There can be a very hidden background, lies about anything/everything. Adults MOSTLY know this, but kids don't realize. They believe what they see posted. Wonder if their conversations might come out to the public. How did they originally connect? Etc.

 

[Trino]

So, her parents have not been charged? Read online the father was considered a man of faith, whatever that means in this situation, and that he was cooperative.

 

[Occam's Zebra]

"Evil" is a religious concept. The answers IMHO are in neuroscience.

Sometimes biology cannot be overcome by a nurturing environment, and sometimes the environment changes the brain in traumatic and tragic ways.

Violent criminals have less grey matter in the areas of the brain responsible for processing emotions and controlling impulses, compared with non-violent criminals. (Source)

Exposure to lead harms the brain, and lead exposure has been associated with criminal behavior. (Source)

We would love to think we have control over our behavior and lives (and those of our children) because otherwise, what's the point? But it's more complex than that.

I'm not excusing any violent criminals. Just making some observations based on many people's desire to use the word "evil" as if it explains something.

IMHO MOO etc.

 

[Sundog]

But it's more complex than that.

<snipped for focus>

It's more complex than we can discuss here, which would be off topic. Neuroscience can certainly make a contribution to our understanding of evil (social evil, moral evil, natural evil, etc.), and different religions and moral philosophies also make a contribution, whether evil is the absence of good, or some other view.

 

[airportwoman]

Any more updates on this case?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

One of the first school shooters was a woman.
Brenda Spencer.

"The Cleveland Elementary School shooting was a school shooting that took place on January 29, 1979, at Grover Cleveland Elementary School in San Diego, California, United States. The principal and a custodian were killed; eight children and police officer Robert Robb were injured. A 16-year-old girl, Brenda Spencer, who lived in a house across the street from the school, was convicted of the shootings."

Cleveland Elementary School shooting (San Diego) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

*so sorry to intrude here, but this is the only place I could find to post

n January 29, 1979, 16-year-old Brenda Spencer opened fire from her home across the street from Grover Cleveland Elementary School in San Diego. She killed principal Burton Wragg and custodian Mike Suchar. Eight students and one police officer were injured. In February 1993, News 8 reporter Mitch Duncan spoke with Brenda Spencer about that day and her life at Frontera Women's Prison in Corona. It was her first television interview in 14 years. This is the four part series.

 

[CrimeJunkie82]

*so sorry to intrude here, but this is the only place I could find to post

n January 29, 1979, 16-year-old Brenda Spencer opened fire from her home across the street from Grover Cleveland Elementary School in San Diego. She killed principal Burton Wragg and custodian Mike Suchar. Eight students and one police officer were injured. In February 1993, News 8 reporter Mitch Duncan spoke with Brenda Spencer about that day and her life at Frontera Women's Prison in Corona. It was her first television interview in 14 years. This is the four part series.

Isn't this the girl who stated that she did it because she hates Mondays?