WI WI - Mary Ellen Kaldenberg, 17, Kenosha, 14 Feb 1967

[helpthevictims]

If there is something specific, you would like for us to speculate on and or make assumptions about a possible connection/explanation please post it.

I don't recall reading about the time of day when all of this occurred other than it occurred during evening.
Was it around Dusk on that evening, between 5 and 6 pm When she left and went to the corner store?

​

No it's just that I would never name a potential suspect publicly. It would be wrong and slanderous to those potentially innocent as well as interferring with an ongoing case.

 

[helpthevictims]

Great ideas here! However, although I think that your idea regarding a fixation on death/the macbre is very possible, I also think that the crime scene could be looked at like this: Whoever did this (and here I'm thinking of a previous poster's thoughts on a woman being involved -sorry, can't find the exact post right now- ) maybe instead of being fixated on death, was "fixated" or at least sought out this specific victim, and then "gave her a funeral", because she/he was close to the victim in some way.

The hearse, the shoes off, and from what I understand of the placement of the concrete slabs, a headstone. I seem to remember from somewhere that there were concrete slabs placed all around her, except for in front of her feet, which were situated toward to doors of the vehicle. So, they start at one foot and go up and over her head and down to the other foot -picture it: A headstone shape, if that is indeed what I read.

A woman's touch? Someone who cared about her?

@Fridaybaker........You have been paying attention and you nailed it. Atleast that's what I believe. Too bad they couldn't have proved it.

 

[helpthevictims]

:rose: Mary Ellen is our featured cold case from 2/19 - 2/26/12 :rose:

Are there any pictures of her available? If someone posts one here, please PM me and I'll copy it to the front page.

:hug:

Kimster, I have been working on a picture for a while and I finally located one today. Unfortunately It won't arrive in time while the case is being featured but when I get it I will let you know and check on where I could post it. Thank you so much for featuring this case. 44 years for this case to have never seen justice is 44 yrs too long. I love this site. Your all wonderful.

 

[helpthevictims]

@fridaybaker

Ahhh...yes, the tombstone scenario makes sense. I didn't, however, hear anything that would suggest two perps involved, or anything that strongly suggested one was a woman. What leads you to that? I know her Cousin has this theory based on jealousy. Can we get more info on that?

Do we know how big the town was back in 1967? How many people. What social activities was this young woman involved in? Was she a cheerleader, popular at school? What did she do in her spare time?

-Roses

Kenosha in 1967 had a population of approx 50,000 people but it was the kind of town that eveyone knew everyone and their business. There was "talk" at the time of Mary Ellens death so it was freely discussed and rumors flew. We all know that police start looking closest to home of a victim, who they knew, socialized with, lifestyle, etc. and that is exactly what they did. Therefore certain names were put out there and theories were expressed. Why do I think a woman was involved? well honestly it was almost from the begininning like a premonition in my head, just sort of came into my thoughts and would never leave. I just looked at how personal this crime was and those dang shoes. So neatly next to her body. I profiled many many many different types of people who could have done this including serial killers. I even had one in mind, but.......I always felt it could have had something to do with a woman, a friend, a jealous friend. I thought perhaps 2 people because she had no defensive wounds. And then there was this. Once I began working with the detectives I was told something that spun my head and caused me to BELIEVE it had to do with a woman. I want to say this with caution and care. I would never speak ill of Mary Ellen and I don't think it was meant to be as a put down of her character. I am not going to use his exact words but the bottem line is he implied she was "popular" with the boys, he said she was "hot". Mary Ellens father died when she was just a very little girl, I think 4 and they didn't have much money, her mother as many of you have read, had to rent out the upstairs bedrooms to borders to make ends meet. The fact that she had a date on a school night (thursday Feb 9, 1967) and she left the house after dark at 8:30 to go downtown to the drugstore prior to her date tells me she probably had quite a bit of freedom. And.......what teenage girl tells her mom everything, especially about their private lives. So between a "feeling" I had from the beginning and looking at her life told me she could have put herself into situations that could warrant jealousy and betrayel of one of her girlfriends and/or exboyfriends. That is primarily what I have always based my personal feeling on all of it from. The whole situation is just so very sad. She was just a 17 yr old girl probably not too different from any of us from single parent homes that want to be loved and trust those we shouldn't and in her case I believe this could have been what got her killed.

 

[helpthevictims]

Rosesfromangels, the questions you ask above are excellent. We need a complete idea of who this young woman was and the context in which she lived. I hope her cousin can fill us in here.

Thank you, please read my post on page 4, #104. I hope I have clarified some things.

 

[helpthevictims]

Well everyone I hope I was able to answer all your questions. I promised I would. Bottem line for me is I think this crime was committed by two people. A man and a woman for all the reasons I have stated throughout this thread. To recap: It's clearly personal, full of deep anger, feelings of betrayel, deep rage by someone she knew due to the abandoned hearse of only 3 weeks, the shoes, the slashes to her face and I will finally tell you all that Mary Ellen was actually stabbed 20 times!!!!! It was total Overkill. The stabbing that probably actually killed her was either to her jugler vein in her neck or one of the two stab wounds to her heart. Given 20 total and as you all know the rest were in her neck and chest. This killer went completely crazy and just kept stabbing her till she was dead. (It is very difficult to be so graphic) I knew when I started this personal investigation that I could end up finding out that whomever killed Mary Ellen could be deceased. I kept praying that would not be the case. I want nothing more than to see a murderer to serve out the rest of their lives behind bars and to never see the light of day again. We are NOT giving up, However I can tell you that I recently was told by the police they feel they know who did this to Mary Ellen and have not been able to prove it and unfortunately now that person is deceased. If this person did kill Mary Ellen I can only hope they are faced with the very first paragraph I wrote in this thread. That they are facing a much worse punishment than they ever would have faced here on earth. God's punishment. So instead of entering the gates of prison perhaps they took the road toward God and was told to make a U turn infront of the pearly gates. This story is not over. I want the details. I want to know why the police believe this person is her murderer. I want to know why they couldn't get a conviction. I want to know why this case was never turned over to the FBI. I started out wanting answers and I am determined to continue to search for answers. Thank you all for offering your thoughts, theories and prayers for Mary Ellen. What kind of person does this? Evil, that's who........What a sick world it has become. The only positive out of any of this I see is she's an angel in heaven, and she can never be hurt again. I feel very sad

 

[rosesfromangels]

@help the Victims - Thank you for posting all the detail, and God Bless You. I know how difficult this is for you. We have something in common; my Cousin was found murdered on Valentine's Day too in 1997, but we did know who it was. I have never gotten over this, and for many years I refused to acknowlege Valentines Day at all. Then last year (after 14 years!) I decided I wasn't going to let evil win. In her honour, I make sure I let everyone I love know how very much they mean to me...especially on Valentine's Day.

After all the information you provided, I would say that the top suspects are any of her ex boyfriends, ex girlfriends of the guy she was dating at the time she passed away, and the tennants in the house where she lived. That's where I would (re)start. This much I do know. That's a small town, and was even smaller back then. Somone talked. Somone knows....SOMEONE KNOWS SOMETHING. I promise you that. If your family can all afford to chip in together, I would hire a private investigator to go work with the Police and reinvestigate this. Much has changed in the many years since this case was first looked at. We are so much more sophisticated in our approach, and have science that we didn't back then.

@McSpy - do you have the article that the Cousin is asking for? I think it was you that posted it?

Cousin - God Bless You. You are in my Prayers. I really really really think you can get answers on this. They sit hidden with that little town. Now put the pressure on, and get someone to ease their conscience.

 

[helpthevictims]

@help the Victims - Thank you for posting all the detail, and God Bless You. I know how difficult this is for you. We have something in common; my Cousin was found murdered on Valentine's Day too in 1997, but we did know who it was. I have never gotten over this, and for many years I refused to acknowlege Valentines Day at all. Then last year (after 14 years!) I decided I wasn't going to let evil win. In her honour, I make sure I let everyone I love know how very much they mean to me...especially on Valentine's Day.

After all the information you provided, I would say that the top suspects are any of her ex boyfriends, ex girlfriends of the guy she was dating at the time she passed away, and the tennants in the house where she lived. That's where I would (re)start. This much I do know. That's a small town, and was even smaller back then. Somone talked. Somone knows....SOMEONE KNOWS SOMETHING. I promise you that. If your family can all afford to chip in together, I would hire a private investigator to go work with the Police and reinvestigate this. Much has changed in the many years since this case was first looked at. We are so much more sophisticated in our approach, and have science that we didn't back then.

@McSpy - do you have the article that the Cousin is asking for? I think it was you that posted it?

Cousin - God Bless You. You are in my Prayers. I really really really think you can get answers on this. They sit hidden with that little town. Now put the pressure on, and get someone to ease their conscience.

Thank you for all that. Yes, that is what I am banking on, people KNOW. I think they have been afraid to talk. And I am the family detective LOL I was just checking to see who posted that article I havent' seen, so thanks its McSpy, good. So sorry to hear about of common unfortunate circumstance, it's so sad that there are so many evil people in the world. Glad to see you find some level of peace and to overcome the negative of that day. God bless you too my friend.

 

[rosesfromangels]

@helpthevictims,

Just read your last post. Thank you for sharing the detail about Mary Ellen's life, and her popularity. This is making more and more sense, and I suspect your intuition is correct. If she were a "hottie" as the kids would say and perhaps a bit of a heartbreaker, then should would certainly inspire jealousy and rage. My Cousin was gorgeous, and had a flock of men. Ultimately, one of them killed her for the reasoning of "if I can't have you, no one will." So, your scenario makes alot of sense now. Actually, it could have been TWO WOMEN?! That said, I don't think women tend to kill with knives? I don't know the stats on that. Again, thank you for sharing such painful details. I do understand what type of bravery it takes to do this. Bless you, and a big loving hug.
-Rose

 

[rosesfromangels]

@helpthevictims - you WILL find out. Someone is going to TALK. Put the pressure on! And yes, 20 stab wounds is rage, rage, rage. Were any of the suspects know to have mutilated/killed animals as a child? A typical flag...

 

[helpthevictims]

@helpthevictims - you WILL find out. Someone is going to TALK. Put the pressure on! And yes, 20 stab wounds is rage, rage, rage. Were any of the suspects know to have mutilated/killed animals as a child? A typical flag...

not sure of that. I am trying to nail down the identity of this person and therefore will be able to definetly get details of their lives. Given the way Mary Ellen was murdered I bet this person did lots of wierd creepy things and was probably know to be a bully and that is why no one has ever come forward.

 

[KariKae]

I keep going back to the renters.

Was there possibly a renter who was previously homeless? Perhaps he knew about the hearse because that's where he used to sleep. A renter would be somebody Mary Ellen knew and she might have accepted a ride from. The renter might know of her unplanned trip to the store and seized the opportunity.

To stab somebody, you have to be close to them. You are a foot from their face. The same would be true of the individual holding her down. The perp would be looking in her eyes as it happened.

IDK - I just can't imagine a high school rival doing that. But then, again, I am often shocked at what people do to each other.

 

[McSpy]

Her face was stabbed, 3 times, however not deep and more like cuts. I think her arms could have been being held down while a 2nd perp did the stabbing. She had no defensive wounds on her hands!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds like they were toying with her too. The perp with the knife was probably talking the whole time.

 

[McSpy]

Yes they were concrete block and yes from the yard. there werent side windows toward the back of the hearse. There is a picture of it in one of the articles I posted earlier in the thread I think page 2, I believe they were placed around her to conceal her and there was a broken piece of concrete on her abdomen, I think they were trying to hide her. It goes to show how immiature and not very well thought out of a crime. They knew what they wanted to do and they knew where they were going to do it but the covering of her with the concrete whether blocks or slap pieces can sometimes indicate shame on the part of the perp, the covering of a body. I am sure once it was over they could have thought "What did we just do" !? Ya know. There have been many cases I have read about referring to this way of thinking on the part of the murderer. Afterward they have feelings of shame and therefore cover the body with something.

I apologize if you have already answered this, but has a PI ever investigated this case? i think tracking down some of Mary Ellen's classmates and friends to see if there were rumors (that may be true) could lead to solving this crime. After all this time, someone may talk or have a change of heart about getting involved. If it was a case of jealousy and hate, the perp usually goes on and on about how they despise the person. Someone from back in 1967 may have a clue if Mary Ellen had enemies.

 

[McSpy]

Kenosha in 1967 had a population of approx 50,000 people but it was the kind of town that eveyone knew everyone and their business. There was "talk" at the time of Mary Ellens death so it was freely discussed and rumors flew. We all know that police start looking closest to home of a victim, who they knew, socialized with, lifestyle, etc. and that is exactly what they did. Therefore certain names were put out there and theories were expressed. Why do I think a woman was involved? well honestly it was almost from the begininning like a premonition in my head, just sort of came into my thoughts and would never leave. I just looked at how personal this crime was and those dang shoes. So neatly next to her body. I profiled many many many different types of people who could have done this including serial killers. I even had one in mind, but.......I always felt it could have had something to do with a woman, a friend, a jealous friend. I thought perhaps 2 people because she had no defensive wounds. And then there was this. Once I began working with the detectives I was told something that spun my head and caused me to BELIEVE it had to do with a woman. I want to say this with caution and care. I would never speak ill of Mary Ellen and I don't think it was meant to be as a put down of her character. I am not going to use his exact words but the bottem line is he implied she was "popular" with the boys, he said she was "hot". Mary Ellens father died when she was just a very little girl, I think 4 and they didn't have much money, her mother as many of you have read, had to rent out the upstairs bedrooms to borders to make ends meet. The fact that she had a date on a school night (thursday Feb 9, 1967) and she left the house after dark at 8:30 to go downtown to the drugstore prior to her date tells me she probably had quite a bit of freedom. And.......what teenage girl tells her mom everything, especially about their private lives. So between a "feeling" I had from the beginning and looking at her life told me she could have put herself into situations that could warrant jealousy and betrayel of one of her girlfriends and/or exboyfriends. That is primarily what I have always based my personal feeling on all of it from. The whole situation is just so very sad. She was just a 17 yr old girl probably not too different from any of us from single parent homes that want to be loved and trust those we shouldn't and in her case I believe this could have been what got her killed.

When I read through the thread for the first time, a woman came to mind as the perp. I have the same feeling on it.

 

[rosesfromangels]

@Karikae - Yes, we are often surprised by what seemingly normal people will do. Jealousy is a a powerful motivator for borderline types. As an example, think of that Mom who plotted to kill the teenage cheerleader who was her daughters rival! Remember that one? Unbelievable, but true.

 

[rosesfromangels]

@McSpy - regarding a P.I. (re)interviewing her friends. That is the definately a great place to start. Sometimes the person that is the most jealous can be someone who is very close to us. Obsessed....
Creepy stuff.

 

[rosesfromangels]

@helpthevictims
I went to Ancestry.com and read the board re: your Cousin. The man you mentioned, "Robert"...is listed at www.411.com (whitepages info) as being 62 years old and living in Kenosha. His assertions, and then lack of followup information is completely inappropriate. My first thought was that he was going to attempt to get something from your family. If not, he should be working with the police IMMEDIATELY, vs. trying to withold information to write some d*mn salacious book. You should have the police go question this man immediately. I would also caution your family members to be VERY careful what they post on that board, or elsewhere for that matter. There are losers out there who will try and profit from misfortune. Unless he proves himself otherwise, I am assuming "Robert" falls in to that category.

 

[necco]

Forgive me if I do anything wrong, this is my first post. With the feeling that this may have been done by a man and a woman, I have a theory. Is it possible that this was some sort of boyfriend and girlfriend killing a prior love interest of the boyfriend in order to make their love "pure" like the Texas Cadet murder of Adrianne Jones? The cuts to the face (perhaps to make her less beautiful?), the overkill (rage?) of the stabbing and the configuration of the body in a hearse (going to wear she belongs (in their minds)?) all read like a revenge killing for a lover's triangle to me.

 

[McSpy]

@helpthevictims
I went to Ancestry.com and read the board re: your Cousin. The man you mentioned, "Robert"...is listed at www.411.com (whitepages info) as being 62 years old and living in Kenosha. His assertions, and then lack of followup information is completely inappropriate. My first thought was that he was going to attempt to get something from your family. If not, he should be working with the police IMMEDIATELY, vs. trying to withold information to write some d*mn salacious book. You should have the police go question this man immediately. I would also caution your family members to be VERY careful what they post on that board, or elsewhere for that matter. There are losers out there who will try and profit from misfortune. Unless he proves himself otherwise, I am assuming "Robert" falls in to that category.

Wouldn't Mary Ellen be 62 years old today? Perhap, Mr. Crane attended the same high school and was a classmate.