WI WI - Robert Christian, 18, Madison, 16 Sept 1977

[ShadowGrove]

On one hand, what would the witness gain by coming forward with a fabricated story....but, it would have been dark out when she encountered the car...how accurate could she be about the Hornet, license plate, and Bob as the driver?

I’m not saying they fabricated it on purpose. Just that their memory may have been influenced by the large search and rescue effort

 

[Sweetluv]

Anyone aware of any other suspicious events that had taken place in that general area around the time frame Bob went missing?

 

[Keiri]

Anyone aware of any other suspicious events that had taken place in that general area around the time frame Bob went missing?

I looked for tire and battery thieves, nothing local to the area I could find except some kids stealing tires from tire shops. I'd say his sister's unfortunate end, as well as Chris Winkler's, shows the darker side of rural-ish Wisconsin

 

[Valiant]

To remove the battery, someone would have needed to open the door and touch the door handle ..as well as pull the hood lever. Any fingerprints lifted other than Bobs?

Not all cars had internal hood release back then. In fact, according to the sales brochures it was optional on Hornet. So someone could possibly open the hood without opening the door. But they would still have to touch the two releases got the hood.

 

[Valiant]

With the new change to the witness statement, I’m curious whether that was Randy looking for Bob.

The timeline seems to fit where Bob leaves Madison (~17:30) and then doesn’t arrive on time to Randy’s place (~18:30). If Randy and his family got worried around an hour after Randy would/should have arrived (~19:30), then it fits that the witness saw Randy searching for Bob (~20:00). When Randy doesn’t find Bob, he goes back home and his mom calls Bob’s family (~21:30).

This leaves me with a few thoughts:

1. The witness came forward about a week after the disappearance. Witness statements are often bad in the best of circumstances, what are the odds that the witness “recalled” a Hornet, the exact plate, and a person matching Bob’s description over them having followed the news and miss-remembered what they saw? A similar vehicle with a similar plate and another man could easily be mistaken for the exact things the police and news were covering at the time. False memories and whatnot.

2. What vehicle did Randy’s household have at the time? Did it look at all like a Hornet? Similar plate maybe?

3. Do we know what Randy looked like at the time? Is it possible they looked similar enough that the witness mistook them after seeing the news?

4. If it wasn’t Randy looking that night, then could it have been anyone else that fits the timeline or description?

5. None of this speculation has anything to do with the disappearance or the vehicle being left, this is only an idea on how the timeline could have fit for someone else having been in the driveway where the witness saw them.

All I can say is a Hornet was a fairly unique looking car and not really a big seller. If someone generally followed cars a Hornet would be a notable car back then, IMO.

 

[Quoththeraven]

3. Do we know what Randy looked like at the time? Is it possible they looked similar enough that the witness mistook them after seeing the news?

His 1980 wedding picture can be viewed online at Baraboo News Republic Sat, Nov 22,1980 Page 4 (Source: Newspapers.com. He has a mustache.​

 

[Quoththeraven]

One thing is for sure..Bob met up with foul play. Maybe he seen something he shouldn't have or if he was alone, he/car looked like easy prey. Tower Road was not the place to be that night..between the person in the driveway the witness saw, Bob's car being stripped and items taken, and Bob himself vanishing that evening..the whole vibe seems shady.
I keep going back to the dogs losing his scent at the road..close distance to his car. Why leave your car to get into another one unless you knew the person?

We do know one thing. Bob wasn't where he said he was going to be, meeting Randall Phillips at his home in West Baraboo. Instead, his vehicle ended up at the radio tower right across the road from a friend of his father, Lewis Christian. What are the odds?

 

[Keiri]

We do know one thing. Bob wasn't where he said he was going to be, meeting Randall Phillips at his home in West Baraboo. Instead, his vehicle ended up at the radio tower right across the road from a friend of his father, Lewis Christian. What are the odds?

Pretty good though, because everyone kind knew everyone? right? At least that's what a lady said on the sheriff pages, that some of Bob's uncles even worked on Randy's family farm.

 

[Keiri]

I think your link broke, so I got one. Marriage of Griffith / Griffith What's really odd is, remember, Bob had a mustache at the time. He looks... A LOT... like Randy.

 

[Quoththeraven]

I think your link broke, so I got one. Marriage of Griffith / Griffith What's really odd is, remember, Bob had a mustache at the time. He looks... A LOT... like Randy.

• Distinguishing Characteristics Caucasian male. Brown hair. Christian wears wire-framed eyeglasses with thick lenses, and he has a mustache. His nickname is Bob.

I guess he did have a mustache.

 

[Teamir]

I’ll chime in with my theory, and pasting a screenshot from OnX, the hunting app to show topography.

IMO he got up to the area and checked a tree stand spot. Then, I propose that he drove to the Tower Rd parking spot in order to scout out another spot - one that did not yet have a stand. He took his bow, because ya know, if you see a big buck you might cheat and shoot it the night before season opens because, just because! And he wore 1970s typical hunting boots, that were maybe duck style on the bottom and leather or fabric above shoe level. He left the keys in the car because that’s what you did in those days. Marijuana was a non-factor because he appeared to be a fairly serious hunter and could’ve stayed in Madison if he wanted to ‘party’ but didn’t. As he walked toward the road, the upper part of his boots brushed against weeds or grass, which bloodhounds later smelled. Then maybe as he got to Tower Rd, just the rubber part of the boot touched the road, leaving no scent track. IMO, he went east toward the bluffs straight that way. (On the map, the red is approximate parked location, the yellow is the entire area I suspect his body is). Per topography lines, the hills/bluffs drop fairly rapidly. I compared the topo line distance to a spot I know personally and it is similar. The spot I know personally (which is not all that far from there on private land) is one where you could EASILY slip off an edge/bluff and hit your head on a rock below, and be fully obscured by brush. I think the sighting by the nuns friend is completely erroneous. He went missing on Friday night. The very next day, on Saturday all day, people were driving around looking for their friend “Bob”, who was by then known to be missing. IMO She confused the car description of what she actually saw, with what she read. Saturday night, I think some locals opportunistically stripped the car. Taking tires and batteries (using their own jack) would possibly be a misdemeanor but taking the whole car would’ve been a felony. So they never considered looking inside the car so as not to leave prints, etc. Sunday, his Dad locates his car. That week, the car strippers hear he is missing and call in the anonymous tip, possibly feeling kinda bad. In conclusion, I think he fell off a bluff and accidentally died, while scouting for deer with his bow in hand. I think he is in the area called Nature Conservancy in the screenshot.

 

[Keiri]

I agree about the witness. The asking for Bob thing suggests a scenario exactly like you are saying. Yes, I think the thieves called in where they left the tires. All the tire thieves I saw in the newspaper around that time were teens. I actually do kinda think he was stopping for weed, but at the tower? *The sheriff’s tower?* that part, I don’t know. That’s probably why, in my scenario, he got into the car with them to go to a more secluded place. If they find his remains, I’d argue it might be somewhere in the woods or something. This is a case where it’s actually probably true “somebody knows something” and they aren’t saying because it either implicates them or is snitching.

Something we don’t know and can’t be told I suppose is I bet they knew who the tipster was - who was the thief. And that’s why they dismissed that angle.

Don’t forget, tea, they did leave a single fingerprint, but it’s never matched anything in the database.

 

[Keiri]

well well well.. Randy had a brother, older than him, named Robert… who they called Bob. Bob <—- article link

Was Bob actually looking for…Bob?

 

[Sweetluv]

well well well.. Randy had a brother, older than him, named Robert… who they called Bob. Bob <—- article link

Was Bob actually looking for…Bob?

Well that's interesting...
Could plans have changed right before Bob left home or while he was at the Walgreens , used the payphone to call Randy to say he was on his way and they all decided to meet up at the tower instead, including Randy's brother Bob? This could explain the 2nd car and the eyewitness statement. Something went down either planned or accidental and harmed Robert...(?)

 

[Quoththeraven]

Information below gleaned from different newspaper articles from Newspapers.com. Historical Newspapers from the 1700's-2000s , including articles referenced previously in this thread. Bob was an above average student, a former boy scout, three merit badges short of achieving the rank of Eagle Scout. Was a high school graduate and enrolled at UW-Madison. He worked a summer job at the city parks department.
Taken from the vehicle were his hunting gear, a satchel containg nursing equipment belonging to his mother, Carrie Christian.
Left in the vehicle were his La Follette High School letter jacket, a change of clothes and an empty pack of small cigars that he had bought at a Walgreen's in Madison.
One fingerprint was also found in the vehicle not belonging to any Christian family member. Wisconsin State Journal, Sun, Sep 28, 1986 Page 1.
His vehicle was found by a road near a radio relay tower, known as a "lover's lane". The article wasn't specific as to whether Tower Rd/Albrecht Rd was the "lover's lane" or it was the access road to the relay tower. Baraboo News Republic Sat, Sep 15, 2007 Page 14.
His mother, (commenting on Bob's character and punctuality), stated "If he didn't show up, something was wrong. He was a very reliable person, very honest. If he said he was going to be somewhere, he would be there. If he said he was going to do something, he would do it."
The 1977 Hornet belonged to Bob's mother, Carolyn Christian.
Bob's parents believe he drove to the Madison Beltline, headed west to Highway 12 and took it north to the Baraboo area.
After questioning Robert's friends and teachers a Madison Police Department detective said he was confident Robert was not involved in drugs. Wisconsin Dells Events Wed, Jul 19, 2017 Page 23.
It had rained the night before the car was found and any tire tracks or footprints were washed away. Investigators said the woman from Mauston who had been visiting the nun near the retreat said the time the car was in the driveway was 8:35 pm. (A pretty specific time, IMO) Bob left Madison at 5:30 pm (usual driving time from Madison to West Baraboo, one hour via Highway 12) and was seen by the Mauston woman at 8:30 pm. It typically gets dark 6:30-7:00 pm in Sept CST.
IMO, since Bob, (a very punctual person) and Randy Phillip's plan was to meet Randy in West Baraboo in order to hunt the next day, opening day for bow hunting, and it would have been dark by the time he got there, I highly doubt he went hunting Friday night in the dark or checking tree stands in the dark and left Randy at his home for several hours wondering where he was. It would also have been irresponsible and out of character for him to leave his mother's vehicle unlocked and the keys in the ignition knowing that her nursing equipment and his jacket potentially could have been stolen and it was out of character for him to not meet up with Randy at his home 20 minutes and 12 miles away in West Baraboo as planned. Whatever happened to Bob, happened sometime after 6:30 pm Friday night. In the dark.

Hunting and shooting hours for Sep 15 and 16 in Sauk County. (I assume those hours haven't changed since 1977)

SouthernShootingHours.pdf

widnr.widen.net

 

[Sweetluv]

Very informative article..
Because of the rain, I assume thats why they think a jack was not used to remove the tires. ..
Why DID Bob go there in the dark first!?

 

[Keiri]

Very informative article..
Because of the rain, I assume thats why they think a jack was not used to remove the tires. ..
Why DID Bob go there in the dark first!?

Maybe he didn’t. We don’t know for sure he was even driving then.

 

[Teamir]

Information below gleaned from different newspaper articles from Newspapers.com. Historical Newspapers from the 1700's-2000s , including articles referenced previously in this thread. Bob was an above average student, a former boy scout, three merit badges short of achieving the rank of Eagle Scout. Was a high school graduate and enrolled at UW-Madison. He worked a summer job at the city parks department.
Taken from the vehicle were his hunting gear, a satchel containg nursing equipment belonging to his mother, Carrie Christian.
Left in the vehicle were his La Follette High School letter jacket, a change of clothes and an empty pack of small cigars that he had bought at a Walgreen's in Madison.
One fingerprint was also found in the vehicle not belonging to any Christian family member. Wisconsin State Journal, Sun, Sep 28, 1986 Page 1.
His vehicle was found by a road near a radio relay tower, known as a "lover's lane". The article wasn't specific as to whether Tower Rd/Albrecht Rd was the "lover's lane" or it was the access road to the relay tower. Baraboo News Republic Sat, Sep 15, 2007 Page 14.
His mother, (commenting on Bob's character and punctuality), stated "If he didn't show up, something was wrong. He was a very reliable person, very honest. If he said he was going to be somewhere, he would be there. If he said he was going to do something, he would do it."
The 1977 Hornet belonged to Bob's mother, Carolyn Christian.
Bob's parents believe he drove to the Madison Beltline, headed west to Highway 12 and took it north to the Baraboo area.
After questioning Robert's friends and teachers a Madison Police Department detective said he was confident Robert was not involved in drugs. Wisconsin Dells Events Wed, Jul 19, 2017 Page 23.
It had rained the night before the car was found and any tire tracks or footprints were washed away. Investigators said the woman from Mauston who had been visiting the nun near the retreat said the time the car was in the driveway was 8:35 pm. (A pretty specific time, IMO) Bob left Madison at 5:30 pm (usual driving time from Madison to West Baraboo, one hour via Highway 12) and was seen by the Mauston woman at 8:30 pm. It typically gets dark 6:30-7:00 pm in Sept CST.
IMO, since Bob, (a very punctual person) and Randy Phillip's plan was to meet Randy in West Baraboo in order to hunt the next day, opening day for bow hunting, and it would have been dark by the time he got there, I highly doubt he went hunting Friday night in the dark or checking tree stands in the dark and left Randy at his home for several hours wondering where he was. It would also have been irresponsible and out of character for him to leave his mother's vehicle unlocked and the keys in the ignition knowing that her nursing equipment and his jacket potentially could have been stolen and it was out of character for him to not meet up with Randy at his home 20 minutes and 12 miles away in West Baraboo as planned. Whatever happened to Bob, happened sometime after 6:30 pm Friday night. In the dark.

Hunting and shooting hours for Sep 15 and 16 in Sauk County. (I assume those hours haven't changed since 1977)

SouthernShootingHours.pdf

widnr.widen.net

View attachment 557351

I love summaries like this. I have a few pieces to add related to timing that day. This linked article states the parents address so you can actually get a very specific drive time estimate. Madison is so spread out that it might have made a difference. (Assuming he left from his parents?) the article says he was supposed to meet his friend at 5pm in Baraboo. Other articles say different much later times. Do we have confirmation of what time he left Madison? I’ve seen different times about that too. His mother says she saw him in a bank park lot where he got the cash - so we KNOW that was during bank business hours. I think he went to the bank, then bought the cigarettes? Then headed up? I mean, that would indicate he left Madison by……? 5:30ish? 5ish? 4:30ish?

Also, the summary is missing the fact that Bob was seen at the hunting spot by someone that night - I have to find the link. I think it was stated in the parents letter to the editor. Editing - I found the link. He intended to go to the hunting spot first and Someone reported seeing him at the bluff where he had hunted with his dad.

Hunting hours linked indicate it got dark at 7:15 or so?
If he left at 4:30, arrived at the bluffs at 5:20?
If he left at 5:00, arrived at the bluffs at 5:50?
If he left at 5:30, arrived at the bluffs at 6:20?
Was spotted by someone at a hunting spot. So say he spent 15-30 minutes there?

I think he had enough time before dark to go and check another spot, which is why he parked by the tower. IMO.

 

[Quoththeraven]

well well well.. Randy had a brother, older than him, named Robert… who they called Bob. Bob <—- article link

Was Bob actually looking for…Bob?

Could Bob Christian have been looking for Bob Phillip's residence and got lost? Did Bob Phillips live in the vicinity?

I love summaries like this. I have a few pieces to add related to timing that day. This linked article states the parents address so you can actually get a very specific drive time estimate. Madison is so spread out that it might have made a difference. (Assuming he left from his parents?) the article says he was supposed to meet his friend at 5pm in Baraboo. Other articles say different much later times. Do we have confirmation of what time he left Madison? I’ve seen different times about that too. His mother says she saw him in a bank park lot where he got the cash - so we KNOW that was during bank business hours. I think he went to the bank, then bought the cigarettes? Then headed up? I mean, that would indicate he left Madison by……? 5:30ish? 5ish? 4:30ish?

Also, the summary is missing the fact that Bob was seen at the hunting spot by someone that night - I have to find the link. I think it was stated in the parents letter to the editor. Editing - I found the link. He intended to go to the hunting spot first and Someone reported seeing him at the bluff where he had hunted with his dad.

Hunting hours linked indicate it got dark at 7:15 or so?
If he left at 4:30, arrived at the bluffs at 5:20?
If he left at 5:00, arrived at the bluffs at 5:50?
If he left at 5:30, arrived at the bluffs at 6:20?
Was spotted by someone at a hunting spot. So say he spent 15-30 minutes there?

I think he had enough time before dark to go and check another spot, which is why he parked by the tower. IMO.

Bob left Madison at 5:30 pm (usual driving time from his home at 5025 Open Wood Way, Madison to West Baraboo, one hour via Highway 12) and was seen by the Mauston woman at 8:30 pm. It typically gets dark 6:30-7:00 pm in Sept CST.

The open letter states he did go to the bluff where he had hunted with his father. I think the bluff is nearby the radio tower which is also on the bluff. I think that's what his mother meant. Also, hunting season did not open until the next day. The only witness who saw him that night about 8:30 pm was the woman at the nun's house. The witness said the young man then said he must be at the wrong place and then drove away to the east, toward Durward’s Glen Road.

I wonder if the tower was also in that direction? The only nearby place where Bob might have gone was the house across the road from the tower. That would be where a friend of Bob's father lived and where his father ran to to call the SCSD. His mother said she knew of no friends of Bob who lived in the area.

Thanks for the link to the letter from his mother which held another clue; Bob (or someone else) had left his bankbook on the dashboard.

 

[Teamir]

Throwing in another specificity - I found sunset time on that day, per Google. 7:07pm.

So just for what I have as the story in my mind personally - I’m just so skeptical of the nuns friend account. I still think she mixed it up with people who were searching him the next day. 8:30 - it would’ve been full dark and if it was about to rain then it was cloudy so no moonlight. In a very rural area without street lights. And there was no license plate on the front. So is she saying she approached a car in the driveway, from the back of it, noted the plate and vehicle description and what they said? In the dark night? By herself? Because if the car turned around to leave the driveway, the taillights would not have illuminated the plate enough to read it as it left. I’m completely writing that sighting off IMO.