GUILTY WI - Six deer hunters killed, 2 injured in Sawyer County shooting, 21 Nov 2004

  • #121
And Hunting Season started yesterday.

[font=Arial,Verdana,Helvetica,sans-serif]Churches React Differently To Vang Verdict [/font]

Hmong children have been told by white classmates that they can no longer play together.


http://www.fox6milwaukee.com/

Scroll down for story.
 
  • #122
From what I have been reading, things are starting to look pretty explosive in that area.
 
  • #123
Minorities question how a white jury could know how a Hmong hunter must have felt that day.

The chilling details of his actions — six dead, four shot in the back — make Chai Soua Vang an unlikely subject of sympathy. But like the O.J. Simpson case, the murder trial that ended Friday night with guilty verdicts on all counts has divided its audience into two camps, largely drawn by racial lines.

In the days leading up to the trial, for example, the case drew dozens of posts filled with raw emotions on the Hmong Today online community forum. Some contributors declared Chai Soua Vang innocent, and at least one deemed him a hero. Another person who identified himself as a hunter of Hmong descent called Chai Soua Vang's actions "outrageous and uncalled for" but said the history of racism in the Northwoods of Wisconsin prompted Chai Soua Vang to believe he needed to "kill or be killed."

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/12674612.htm
 
  • #124
mysteriew said:
From what I have been reading, things are starting to look pretty explosive in that area.
I have a cabin a few miles from where the shootings occured. I also know one of the survivors / & know relatives of 3 of the dead. I can truthfully say they are wonderful people who are totally broken from this incident.Most were related in some way so families never had 1 loss they had 2 & all were friends.

The term mud duck which Vang was called totally means a person from Mn. Mn call Wis people Cheeseheads.....we moved here 19 yrs ago & my son who was then in 7th grade came home & was laughing telling me about it. It WAS NO racial statement. Tree rat means someone in a tree stand who don't belong there.

Vang owned land near Brainard Mn & continually had fall outs with his neighbors for trespassing / hunting. He also got fined in Ia last yr for getting way over his limit on squirrels.

The racial tension is among the Hmong's they are the ones calling it racial. After statements from the Vang's after the trial you better bet there is racial tension how does anyone know the rest of Vang's sick family might not come & finish the job Vang himself started. Vang's wife stated they deserve it!

IMHO he got what he deserved. Vang told authorities that 1 survivor had shot them all & then made him take the gun & put his fingerprints on it. That was 1 of his stories. :banghead:
 
  • #125
Cheko1, I am so sorry for the trouble that you all are going through right now. And personally, I feel that Vang was guilty and got what he deserved.
But my concern is that the community situation is getting explosive. With the "Hmong" people on one side and the "whites" on another side, I fear that if they don't find some common ground soon- this may not be the last tragedy for this community. That is what I mean by explosive. It really doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong.
There are things that a community can do to draw together and get past this. But if something isn't done soon, I fear another tragedy.
 
  • #126
Thank you & I understand what your saying. There are not many Hmongs in this community. Vang was/is from St Paul Mn. I'm certain there were many many that moved to Maplewood Mn. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to hear of alot of racial prejudice over there / far more then here in Wis.

The only time I ever see any Hmong's is at Casinos or at Flea Markets & Nail Salons. They honestly don't have anything to do with anyone. They stay to themselves & don't associate with anyone who isn't Hmong. Gal who did my nails told me 25 live in the same house together.
 
  • #127
There are things that a community can do to draw together and get past this. But if something isn't done soon, I fear another tragedy.[/QUOTE]
I agree totally...

LE is looking at Vang's involvement in another hunting murder in Wis. :doh:
 
  • #128
There are many things that the people in the community can do to help reduce the tensions in the community.
I know that you don't feel there are any racial tensions on the white persons side. But unless you have walked in their shoes- how do you know. It sounds as if some of the problem is cultural differences. And that is not unusual. Often two sets of people, who don't take the time to get to know the culture of the other set- problems can develop. Learn about their culture. Maybe even befriend a Hmong family, if they will accept it. Find out what they see as their problems and fears are about the community in general. Explain misunderstandings. During a crisis in my area recently- volunteers were even escorting families to their places of worship. It helped to ease their fears and promoted understanding on both sides. And I gues most of all look at them as individuals. They do not all side with Vang.
 
  • #129
The guilty verdict against a Hmong man who shot and killed six white deer hunters in northwestern Wisconsin has not eased racial tensions in the area, residents and church leaders said.

At the St. Paul Hmong Alliance Church in Maplewood, Minn., church members told senior Pastor Nha Long Yang that they see it in glares from white neighbors or hear it from Hmong children who have been told by white classmates that they can no longer play together.
http://www.madison.com/tct/news/stories/index.php?ntid=54608&ntpid=4
 
  • #130
Sorry to go off topic, Lisag, where you at? Packer Fan?
 
  • #131
mysteriew said:
But unless you have walked in their shoes- how do you know. It sounds as if some of the problem is cultural differences.

And that's the problem - how many of the Hmong's have walked in our shoes? No one here has a problem with different religions or races living in the United States, it's a melting pot. We have a problem with people from other countries coming over here to take advantage of our freedoms but do not want to obey the law. They still do what they learned in their country. When Vang was ticketed for hunting on private land three years ago, he did not pay it because he said the DNR was wrong, he was hunting on public land. The DNR knows every square inch of public and private land in this state.

I don't care if you are purple and worship rocks and trees, it's none of my business. But you learn our language, you get a job and you pay your taxes like the rest of us. Wisconsin was hit very hard in the last recession, 45% of our industry is manufacturing. We see our taxes go up to pay for people who can work but don't want to.

Relations between Hmongs and whites have been simmering for a long time now, a hot bed is in Green Bay right now. The Hmongs collect their governement checks, know very little English, their children are afforded the best public education in the world all for free. But the cops are at their door 24/7 breaking apart domestic fights and meth labs. It's a mess up there now.
 
  • #132
And the point I was trying to get at- you have to get to a point where it is not "them" and "us". Where people are looked at as individuals, not groups. And that just as there are bad in the "us" there are bad in the "them" and that doesn't mean either group is all bad. That means both sides.
From what I am seeing, if some common ground is not found- you will be having worse troubles there than financial problems.
 
  • #133
mysteriew said:
And the point I was trying to get at- you have to get to a point where it is not "them" and "us". Where people are looked at as individuals, not groups. And that just as there are bad in the "us" there are bad in the "them" and that doesn't mean either group is all bad. That means both sides.
From what I am seeing, if some common ground is not found- you will be having worse troubles there than financial problems.

Of course, I agree. This isn't a racial situation. This is someone who took it upon himself to murder people and blame it on a racial situation. Huge difference.Not much different than claiming the devil made me do it. We all have responsibility and we all have responsiblity towards humans.The macho situation from the "old" worlds don't have a presence in this world and can't be used for defense. The same could be said for forcing women to wear veils..well, that is stupid. We all face our responsibility and no defense should be defending our manhood. Especially at the costs of other human lives.
 
  • #134
Lady GL said:
And that's the problem - how many of the Hmong's have walked in our shoes? No one here has a problem with different religions or races living in the United States, it's a melting pot. We have a problem with people from other countries coming over here to take advantage of our freedoms but do not want to obey the law. They still do what they learned in their country. When Vang was ticketed for hunting on private land three years ago, he did not pay it because he said the DNR was wrong, he was hunting on public land. The DNR knows every square inch of public and private land in this state.

I don't care if you are purple and worship rocks and trees, it's none of my business. But you learn our language, you get a job and you pay your taxes like the rest of us. Wisconsin was hit very hard in the last recession, 45% of our industry is manufacturing. We see our taxes go up to pay for people who can work but don't want to.

Relations between Hmongs and whites have been simmering for a long time now, a hot bed is in Green Bay right now. The Hmongs collect their governement checks, know very little English, their children are afforded the best public education in the world all for free. But the cops are at their door 24/7 breaking apart domestic fights and meth labs. It's a mess up there now.
Lady GL,

Vang used the racial thing just to stir the pot. I read where his neighbors in St Paul hardly ever seen him outside. He was allowed to raise chickens in St Paul. If "we" ever tried that we'd get ran out of town.

The people refuse to be civil to anyone. They keep totally to themselves. They refuse to speak our language. They refuse to abide by our laws. Can you only imagine what the Hmongs would of done if either survivor said let me at that SOB I'll show him a thing or two?

The Hmongs had a choice to come to our country. They know we have laws that must be abided by.......Chai Vang chose to shoot people in the backs, let them run for there lives, chase them down & murder them. He is mentally sick to think he could get away with 6 murders & if he could of he'd of killed everyone of them. Vang wasn't even from our area, maybe Wi should quit selling out of state licensesif the people can't obey the laws here.

I don't feel we're prejudice at all. We have many many native americans in our area. No problem with them........
 
  • #135
mysteriew said:
And the point I was trying to get at- you have to get to a point where it is not "them" and "us". Where people are looked at as individuals, not groups. And that just as there are bad in the "us" there are bad in the "them" and that doesn't mean either group is all bad. That means both sides.
From what I am seeing, if some common ground is not found- you will be having worse troubles there than financial problems.
The Hmong society looks at themselves as 'them'.
You can't talk to them they don't know English......only thing they know how to say is 2 dollars.....ya buy fruit or veggies at the flea market someone else has to count change for them they don't know how. Hard to carry on a conversation with people who can't talk English.
 
  • #136
And beside that, we can't make excuses for murderers.I won't accept racist comments as to what really went on. Change for a dollar is not the same as murder.
 
  • #137
concernedperson said:
And beside that, we can't make excuses for murderers.I won't accept racist comments as to what really went on. Change for a dollar is not the same as murder.
I agree to that........nobody is ever going to convince me Vang was lost, by his own testimony he knew his directions at any given time. He changed his story to many times. Loren & Terry never once changed theres.
 
  • #138
I have been following this for about 1 week, and finally felt the need to reply. I never used to be a racial person, but after this situation and the way that his family calls him a hero...i am not so sure any longer. I was born and raised in Milwaukee, married to a deer hunter for 15 years. I now live in NW Montana. When i first heard of this terrible crime i cried. Once a year , a hunting ritual. Families come together, male and female, young and old, granparents and cousins. How many a Thanksgiving dinners are canned chili and hot dogs. A ritual known by many. This fateful day that took the lives of 6 people defending their own land. I dont give a rat's rear end if they called him every imaginable name in the book. He had no right to do what he did. I also never used to agree with the death penalty, yet i wish that Wi did have it. I hate to think about this SOB being locked up for life living off of honest, hard working tax payers. Where i live there are grizzly bear. Send that &*$hole out here in the middle of bear country with fish entrails rubbed all over him and no weapon. Maybe then he would feel what some of those hunters did last November. Besides I would not mind seeing an article in the local paper entitled "the hunter becomes the hunted"
 
  • #139
patti sedlar said:
I have been following this for about 1 week, and finally felt the need to reply. I never used to be a racial person, but after this situation and the way that his family calls him a hero...i am not so sure any longer. I was born and raised in Milwaukee, married to a deer hunter for 15 years. I now live in NW Montana. When i first heard of this terrible crime i cried. Once a year , a hunting ritual. Families come together,
The fact is PS that when Vangs family called him a hero & then his wife stated they all deserved to die. There probably was/ is racial tensions. Why would there not be? I can truthfully say I was afraid to be there over the weekend. Could of easily turned into another Viet Nam war.

I felt so sorry for the survivors, they wanted & needed closure to heal. They took a slap across the face by Vang's family. Loren was a very happy go lucky guy, his wife is so nice. They have went thru hell.....both would do anything to help anyone / it makes me sick knowing Vang nearly destroyed them. I wish Loren wouldn't of missed when he shot at him.
 
  • #140
Editorial: The right, justifiable verdict

From the Journal Sentinel

Posted: Sept. 19, 2005

The jury had little choice but to find Chai Soua Vang guilty in the shooting incident that left six hunters dead and two wounded in Wisconsin's North Woods in November. Yes, Vang and the survivors disagree over the facts of what happened. But even were you to buy Vang's version of events, no way could you justify the killings.



http://www.jsonline.com/news/editorials/sep05/356958.asp
 

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