WI - Six killed, 4 injured in Sikh temple shooting, Oak Creek, 5 Aug 2012

[Aqua]

True. But if he really was in the Army, then I think he would know the difference between turbans worn by the Sikhs and their Temple, as opposed to a mosque and Muslims. JMO

Many people don't. I didn't until my husband informed me.
:blushing:

 

[~n/t~]

Interesting. I think a loner white supremacist is just as scary as a white supremacist who is part of a group. That doesn't really convince me this isn't motivated by race or religion.

I took that to mean he acted alone. In other words, there is no "group" behind this attack and therefore no immenent danger that there are others out there from the same group planning other attacks. IMO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

If he's a white supremacist, of course it was probably racially motivated.

Or at least had something to do with it.

Still early. I'm sure we will hear a lot more at tomorrow mornings briefing.

 

[pdxmama]

I took that to mean he acted alone. In other words, there is no "group" behind this attack and therefore no immenent danger that there are others out there from the same group planning other attacks. IMO

Thanks, n/t, I went back and reread it and I think you're right.

 

[~n/t~]

If he's a white supremacist, of course it was probably racially motivated.

Or at least had something to do with it.

Still early. I'm sure we will hear a lot more at tomorrow mornings briefing.

I think this one is a no brainer unlike the Colorado shooting. Definitely a hate crime, imo.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I agree.

Although I think the Movie shooting was also a hate crime.
You have to have a lot of hate in your heart to kill a bunch of innocent people.

I know you are talking about the recent legal distinction of the words "hate crime".

I just think all murders are hate crimes.

 

[wfgodot]

Officials told NBC News the suspect, who served in the U.S. Army, had many tattoos. The suspect had some kind of radical or white supremacist views but, as far as officials said they had heard, he was not in any kind of radical organization. His previous run-ins with law enforcement involved traffic offenses, they said.

NBC News other new info here also

A law enforcement official told NBC News the gunman was dressed in a white T-shirt and black tactical-style pants, which had several pockets for holding ammunition magazines. He was armed with a single handgun, the official said. His name was not released but police say they have a tentative ID and were searching his home.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/r...west_temple_slaughter/srvc=home&position=also

Officials hail hero police in midwest temple slaughter

How many lives might he have potentially taken if he was not taken down by these police officers? How could you not call these guys heroes?
said Oak Creek Alderman Dan Jakubczyk

 

[~n/t~]

I agree.

Although I think the Movie shooting was also a hate crime.
You have to have a lot of hate in your heart to kill a bunch of innocent people.

I know you are talking about the recent legal distinction of the words "hate crime".

I just think all murders are hate crimes.

I meant in the legal sense. In hate crimes victims are targeted for who they are and not because of anything they have done. Colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I meant in the legal sense. In hate crimes victims are targeted for who they are and not because of anything they have done.

I said I know you are talking about the legal distinction of the words.

I knew what you meant.

I was just adding that I believe all murders are hate crimes.

 

[Aqua]

This whole event is hard to comprehend. IF the shooter was targeting what he thought were muslims, IMO, he would have targeted a well known mosque that is fairly close to his home in Cudahy. The temple in Oak creek is not as widely known.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/05/sikhs-tout-equality-service-to-others/

Who are Sikhs and What Do They Believe?

 

[hollyblue]

I tend to think it was suicide by cop by someone who had severe PSTD and just lost his last bolt of sanity. Who with military training would try this with only a single hand gun? Maybe the supremacist groups he tried to enter refuse him?

Just so sad and my prayers are with the families and friends of the victims. Senseless.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/165096596.html

Stung by horror, a community mourns together. Sikh men and women, along with people from all walks of life shared an evening, candles and a cause.




"I feel blessed that so many people care about us," Oak Creek Sikh temple member Harleen Dhillon says. "It doesn't matter what happens, we're all still humans. We're always gonna be here for each other, and that's just how we're going to get through this."

 

[writer7]

Well, he could have been against Pakistanis conceivably. A Sikh Pakistani is not Muslim, obviously, but they are still Pakistani. Was he looking for Punjabi folk???

We have been active enough in Pakistan for that to be a hypothetical motive above and beyond vile racism.

I'm not the least bit convinced of that, but it's not exactly like Sikhs are light-years away from Muslims ethnically even if they seem it religiously. Look up the Punjabi region; you'll see what I mean

 

[pdxmama]

Well, he could have been against Pakistanis conceivably. A Sikh Pakistani is not Muslim, obviously, but they are still Pakistani. Was he looking for Punjabi folk???

We have been active enough in Pakistan for that to be a hypothetical motive above and beyond vile racism.

I'm not the least bit convinced of that, but it's not exactly like Sikhs are light-years away from Muslims ethnically even if they seem it religiously. Look up the Punjabi region; you'll see what I mean

Possible, but the Sikh population is relatively small in Pakistan. Not exactly a country that you would automatically associate with Sikhism. There are only 50,000 Sikh's in Pakistan compared to 20 million in India. There are actually a lot more Sikh's in the US than Pakistan.

 

[writer7]

Possible, but the Sikh population is relatively small in Pakistan. Not exactly a country that you would automatically associate with Sikhism. There are only 50,000 Sikh's in Pakistan compared to 20 million in India. There are actually a lot more Sikh's in the US than Pakistan.

Well, I kept mentioning Punjabi this and that for a reason It being the birthplace of Sikhism and all... I pretty much do associate the two somewhat, yeah


I found a link that might help folks with the history (the specific bit I'm referring to, I mean):

http://sikhinstitute.org/july_2008/8-msasi.htm


Theoretically, if you were looking for the ethnic group that is the majority in Pakistan, you'd be looking for Punjabis. But most Pakistanis are Muslim Punjabis, it's true.

I don't keep up enough with neo-Nazis to know whether race or religion matters more when it comes to their hatred of folks in that area!

Chances are, if it's a racist &%$^#@#! who did this, he just doesn't know the difference (or similarity) between all the turbanned folks, though, yeah.

 

[katydid23]

Well, I kept mentioning Punjabi this and that for a reason It being the birthplace of Sikhism and all... I pretty much do associate the two somewhat, yeah


I found a link that might help folks with the history (the specific bit I'm referring to, I mean):

http://sikhinstitute.org/july_2008/8-msasi.htm


Theoretically, if you were looking for the ethnic group that is the majority in Pakistan, you'd be looking for Punjabis. But most Pakistanis are Muslim Punjabis, it's true.

I don't keep up enough with neo-Nazis to know whether race or religion matters more when it comes to their hatred of folks in that area!

Chances are, if it's a racist &%$^#@#! who did this, he just doesn't know the difference (or similarity) between all the turbanned folks, though, yeah.

True. But I keep thinking about the supposed 9/11 tattoo. And I really think that a 40 yr old man who has been in the Army and is a white supremicist, knows the difference between Muslims and Sikhs. Maybe not if he sees one walking down the street.

But since he went to all of this trouble, apparently, ---moving, getting his protective gear, his Ak-47, why choose a Sikh Temple and not a mosque? I only say that because of the 9/11 tattoo.

 

[i.b.nora]

"Children were at Sunday school, where they are taught about religion, culture and the language of Punjab, the part of northwestern India that is the Sikh homeland."

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/...le-in-oak-creek-qc6cgc0-165059506.html?ipad=y

 

[writer7]

I agree about the mosque point, katydid. Doesn't WI have a lot of mosques, too? It seems like he would just attack Muslims if he were against Muslims.

The attacks on Sikhs after 9/11 were a long time ago now, and folks have learned a lot more about Islam (and Radical Islam) since those days. I don't know enough about subgroups of folks from WI to know what to think, though. I'm sure we have a few people in my area who would confuse the two religions on seeing one or the other. Not many, but I'm sure there are some.