Woman Gives Birth To Octuplets II

[JMO8778]

The Good Lord saw fit to give two beautiful precious boys to Susan Smith, three precious children to Diane Downs and a host of other women who squandered their gifts. I question plenty, with all due respect . . . not the Giver of the gifts, but the one squandering them. I think I can do this with a clear conscience. It's not about the Grace of the one giving but the disgusting behavior of the recipient.

One more child? It's like she's collecting beanie babies. They aren't real separate people to her, just collectibles

thanks,worth repeating.

 

[LCoastMom]

Since the Good Lord saw fit to give these children to Nadya, who am I to question? I wish this family many blessings in the years to come.

I'm not sure how much the Lord had to do with her brood, but her doctor is about to be in a world of ugly. I only wish they would take her fake freak fat lips down with him!

before and after photos of OM​

ITA with you, but she said that she *did not* have any plastic surgery on her face. So I'm guessing the size of her lips is due to a severe food alergy. Or bees stung her. Could happen.

Yeah, in one of the interviews early on, Octo G-Ma said Nutty must have thought she needed bigger lips because she went out normal but came home with them one day! I haven't caught octo-gram in a lie yet, but we continue to catch Not-a-ma and her fat lips!

Speaking of lies, somewhere tonight I saw Nutty denied the whole J & K+8 story. Sorry Nutty you were caught on film saying he is cute and you would like to "meet up with him / Be in a show with him" and it was presented to his peeps. I'm grateful they turned turned you down!" If you are going to lie, I would suggest you stop doing it in front of the cameras!

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4314694&postcount=664"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Woman Gives Birth To Octuplets II[/ame]

BBM

He calls her a "Dummy" because she is one. He sees how she act and sees things behind the scene that we are not privy too! He's probably just sick of it and has alot of years on his poor little head that should'nt be there. He is a KID and has had to deal with things that only adults usually have to deal with. So, YES, his Mom is a dummy!

BBM

Dolly!! ~I~ ♥ ~U~

The little one who called her DUMMY ("because she is one"!) Is the one and only, Caleb ~ who also called her B!tch at the park this summer! He's 2 years old!! He doesn't have an edit button yet, so from him we get the truth! B!TCH and DUMMY both work for me!!

Remember Mother's Day ? when not even ONE of her children would say Happy Mother's Day! . Or how about the day she said she completely understands the turmoil her older children MIGHT BE FEELING in regards to her choice to bring 8 babies and a camera crew home? Oh yeah, DUMMYis the word. So is::loser:


I totally agree with Dan, if she actually tried to spend time with her kids each day, leaving time for herself to get her 2 hours per night sleep (all she needs!) Bathing herself, make up for herself, feeding herself and whatever else she does each day to promo herself.That would leave her with 5 or 6 minutes a day for each baby, toddler and child, including feeding, bathing and whatever else she should be doing . No way do I believe she devotes an hour 10 minutes, to an hour 24 minutes, a day to her children. She is way too narcissistic. That's why GOD invented nanny's.

Did you all get your Octo Christmas greeting? :santa:

The Ho ho ho for the holidays was Notama and instead of 8 tiny reindeer, she had 8 little elves. Not cool.... :moose:

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2009/12/seasons-greetings-a-very-octomom-christmas/

How it looked before she decorated the lawn with herself, in her Christmas Undies and babes.

http://celebrity.premiere.com/photos/gallery/nadya_suleman_christmas_291009/10954146

Babies and fur trimmed red Christmas lingerie how much more special can it get? I guess it was the best she could come up with after posing as a prego nun for Halloween.

My roomie was a very prego bride for Halloween, our first year at Mount St. Mary's. I took pictures of her in front of the chapel and the nuns were not amused.

It was only slightly less inappropriate than the prego Octo nun for Halloween. We were both 17, she is supposed to be a 30 something year old mother, teaching her children right from wrong. If she knows no better than to think that was a "smart" look for her, I feel so much more sorry for her children, than I did before seeing the Halloween and Christmas photos.

http://www.newser.com/story/72835/octomom-for-halloween-preggo-nun.html


Now what we have been waiting for:

Octomom Doc Accused of Negligence

The California Medical Board accused Suleman's Beverly Hills fertility doctor, Michael Kamrava, of gross negligence in three instances: transferring too many embryos, repeatedly transferring fresh embryos when frozen ones were available and failing to refer her for a mental health evaluation.

Kamrava is also accused of giving Suleman too much of a hormone while stimulating in vitro fertilization, poor record keeping and failing to recognize that Suleman's conduct was placing her offspring at risk.

The board could revoke or suspend his license. His attorney said Monday that the doctor wants to continue practicing medicine. Officials say Michael Kamrava must be disciplined because he acted with "gross negligence" with regard to the treatment of Nutty'a!

She has said she underwent the in vitro treatment that bore octuplets because she didn't want her frozen embryos to go to waste. But the medical board alleges that Kamrava never used frozen embryos in any of her pregnancies, Octo-Fool requested fresh embryos be used to improve her chances of success in each pregnancy, putting her health at increased risk.

Suleman refuted those allegations in the video Tuesday, saying that Kamrava told her he transferred whatever was left of the frozen embryos. Seeming to have second thoughts, Suleman added she may have signed papers she hadn't read. "Maybe that was my negligence," she said.

Though Suleman has also pledged to stop having children, she seemed to joke with Radar that Kamrava losing his license would curb her ability to have more babies. "What am I going to do if I ever in the future want to go back?" she said with a laugh. "Really, what am I going to do?" Kamrava's lawyer, Peter Osinoff, said that he could not immediately be reached for comment.

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2010/01/octomom-doc-accused-of-negligence/

http://www.wral.com/news/national_world/national/story/6745729/

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http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.phpp=4314694&postcount=664

So there were no frozen embryos? :cold::cold: Well I'm just shocked!! :liar: Or not... :shakehead:

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http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.phpp=4461516&postcount=674

JMO8778 said: I'm aware of genetics, but the octuplets sure do appear to be of several different ethnicities. In my *own opinion, I think the Dr played 'embryo round-up' and scrounged together whatever (or as many as) he could find in order to facilitate the HOM pregnancy he and Nadya were trying to get.

:sleuth: And now the first annual websleuth award for the best observation goes to JMO8778 !!:takeabow:

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http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.phpp=4468601&postcount=675

Awww no miracles. just another chapter of As the Octo-Lies!! Stay tuned :kilroy: or not, :beamup: there will be more :dj: lies to come... :scream:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

And now it's time for the WebSleuth Riddle of The Day!

Boyz_Mum? :U There:

Yes LCMom? :wink:

How can you tell Not-a-ma is lying? :liar:

Her Lips are moving!! :talker:

:floorlaugh:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

 

[JMO8778]

>>>>>JMO8778 said: I'm aware of genetics, but the octuplets sure do appear to be of several different ethnicities. In my *own opinion, I think the Dr played 'embryo round-up' and scrounged together whatever (or as many as) he could find in order to facilitate the HOM pregnancy he and Nadya were trying to get.

:sleuth: And now the first annual websleuth award for the best observation goes to JMO8778 !!:takeabow:


Really,I'm flattered...you didn't have to!!
I **so** wish they could do DNA tests on ALL of the kids to figure out exactly what happened.Is there anything stopping them???

I think the 2 sets of identical twins is another huge lie as well.

I've a feeling there are bio-parents of some of octomom's offspring out there somewhere.Especially baby Noah, with that blond hair and those light features of his, who doesn't appear to resemble his siblings in basic ethnicity at all.A couple of them even look like they might even be part asian.

But I mainly replied so I could post the link to the pdf of the accusations against Kamrava.(Note that nowhere does it say, in any form, that two of those eggs split to become identical twins.Of course at this point it doesn't mean they didn't,just an observation on my part):

http://www.latimes.com/includes/misc/kamravaaccusation.pdf

 

[JMO8778]

..and since when does a Dr 'follow patient demands'??? HE is the Dr,the one who's supposed to have the knowledge to properly care for and look out for his patients:


"'Octomom" Nadya Suleman's fertility doctor has been accused by the Medical Board of California for a pattern of gross negligence that led to the birth of her 14 children, including the world's longest-surviving octuplets, the Los Angeles Times reports.
The state board charged that Michael Kamrava created a "stockpile" of unused frozen embryos that serve "no clinical purpose."
Click here to read the board's accusation on the Times' website.
The number of embryos Kamrava transferred in July 2008 was so outside the norm that they "should not be transferred into any woman, regardless of age," the document says.
The Whittier Daily News, Suleman's hometown newspaper, reports that guidelines established by the American Society of Reproductive Medicine say in patients under 35, no more than two embryos should be transferred.
The Times quotes Kamrava's lawyer, Peter Osinoff, as saying the doctor is "devastated" by the charges, which could cost him his license, but says he was following his patient's demands.
(Posted by Doug Stanglin)

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...ccused-of-gross-negligence-by-medical-board/1

 

[PeteyGirl]

Good gawd!! How MANY embryos did they make? They never seemed to use the ones left over from the previous cycles, just made more each time she wanted to get pregnant again. There is a stockpile of embryos somewhere . . . unless they were sold for illegal research activities. I mean, to what purpose would a doctor conspire to create so MANY embryos? Holy cow.

 

[Boyz_Mum]

I'll admit to being really curious about the "stockpile" of unused embryos (it's obvious they aren't used if they're frozen, but just how many could have been used from this "stockpile" over the years?) Is it possible that some of these embryos could have been implanted in 'the wrong uterus'? I pray for his other patients, I think it would be a little nervewracking thinking about his practice and whether or not it had an effect on 'me'. JMO.

I totally agree with you JMO8778, if all our doctors followed 'patient demands', I can't imagine the turmoil there'd be at the pharmacy! Dr K should definately be the one making the choices in the doctor/patient relationship.

 

[JMO8778]

Good gawd!! How MANY embryos did they make? They never seemed to use the ones left over from the previous cycles, just made more each time she wanted to get pregnant again. There is a stockpile of embryos somewhere . . . unless they were sold for illegal research activities. I mean, to what purpose would a doctor conspire to create so MANY embryos? Holy cow.

although pregnancies do occur from previously frozen embryos,it's the fresh embryos that have a higher implantation rate.once they're frozen,they tend to lose a little something...some of their 'omph',or sticking ability,so to speak.My guess is that Dr K was trying to up his % of pregnancies and births in order to pull in more business and $$.I recall reading he had a rather low late of success before this.

I think he used a new method on Nadya where the embryos are actually sewed into the lining.In other words...they had no choice but to 'take'.(although that doesn't mean she couldn't have miscarried some or all later).I'm guessing in that case,it wouldn't matter if they were frozen or not..they are going to cause a pregnancy,regardless.

 

[JMO8778]

I'll admit to being really curious about the "stockpile" of unused embryos (it's obvious they aren't used if they're frozen, but just how many could have been used from this "stockpile" over the years?) Is it possible that some of these embryos could have been implanted in 'the wrong uterus'? I pray for his other patients, I think it would be a little nervewracking thinking about his practice and whether or not it had an effect on 'me'. JMO.

me too.just wondering if he did the same thing to other women,and,if so,did he get some of the embryos mixed up?? (He does appear to have some sort of 'problem' with record-keeping).Or did he purposely conspire with Nadya to create a HOM pregnancy using whenever was available,if she didn't have enough for that? If she didn't have enough...what happened to the ones she had? were they used on another pt?

I really don't see how they can figure out exactly what happened without DNA tests.and in that case,I hope they test each and every baby born with the help of Dr K,and anyone he might have had associations with.(other clinics,etc).

I can't imagine anyone would want their bio-child raised by octomom,even if they did willingly donate their unused embryos.(personally I don't think that's what happened here,given the accusations against Dr K).I think he played 'God',to some extent,and created his own stockpile of embryos from more than one woman.

 

[Steely Dan]

..and since when does a Dr 'follow patient demands'??? HE is the Dr,the one who's supposed to have the knowledge to properly care for and look out for his patients:


"'Octomom" Nadya Suleman's fertility doctor has been accused by the Medical Board of California for a pattern of gross negligence that led to the birth of her 14 children, including the world's longest-surviving octuplets, the Los Angeles Times reports.
The state board charged that Michael Kamrava created a "stockpile" of unused frozen embryos that serve "no clinical purpose."
Click here to read the board's accusation on the Times' website.
The number of embryos Kamrava transferred in July 2008 was so outside the norm that they "should not be transferred into any woman, regardless of age," the document says.
The Whittier Daily News, Suleman's hometown newspaper, reports that guidelines established by the American Society of Reproductive Medicine say in patients under 35, no more than two embryos should be transferred.
The Times quotes Kamrava's lawyer, Peter Osinoff, as saying the doctor is "devastated" by the charges, which could cost him his license, but says he was following his patient's demands.
(Posted by Doug Stanglin)

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...ccused-of-gross-negligence-by-medical-board/1

Colored by me.

Following patient demands?! If I go to my doctor and ask for prescriptions for seven different tranquilizers I can tell you for certain that he would NOT write those prescriptions for me. Controlling patient demands is exactly why a doctor is there. A doctor has a responsibility to do what's best for his patients. Implanting that many embryos into a woman with no kids is unethical. Doing it to a woman who already has six kids is uber unethical. JMO

 

[LCoastMom]

I'll admit to being really curious about the "stockpile" of unused embryos (it's obvious they aren't used if they're frozen, but just how many could have been used from this "stockpile" over the years?) Is it possible that some of these embryos could have been implanted in 'the wrong uterus'? I pray for his other patients, I think it would be a little nervewracking thinking about his practice and whether or not it had an effect on 'me'. JMO.

I totally agree with you JMO8778, if all our doctors followed 'patient demands', I can't imagine the turmoil there'd be at the pharmacy! Dr K should definately be the one making the choices in the doctor/patient relationship.

This is just the tip of the ice berg. Didn't Dr K have two more women that we know of who were pregnant with / delivered 4 babies each, last year? Interesting that she is sticking up for him, yet he tried to pawn off his mistakes / errors in judgement by saying he was doing as she asked. I guess he did so because he is such a nice guy?

This report is frightening to read, no woman *in her right mind* would volunteer to go through stimulation and retrieval as many times as NS did.

*which means he knowingly continued to treat a mentally unbalanced woman for infertility and sent her home with a new babe in arms every year.

OctoGram thought NS had gone to a new doc, after she begged the original doc to stop treating NS and he agreed, because of the situation at home. So the doc lied to gma? Or Octo-Gma lied? Someone certainly has lied!!

At her age a normal course of drugs to stimulate her ovaries to over produce should have theoretically produced 15 to 20 good quality eggs.

Being conservative lets say he retrieved 16 each time and used half. (Not adding any for the undocumented extra's)

By the documentation she stored excess eggs 7 times, all frozen 1 time, not stated two times. She could conceivably (no pun intended) have 8 eggs, 7 times, 16 eggs x1 for a total of 72 frozen embryo's. And I truly feel this is a low estimate. I also believe the state would not be using this particular charge against him if there were not a significant number of frozen embryo's or the lab had documented embryo's that were of poor quality.

09/00 :cold:
10/01 :cold:
12/02 :cold:
07/04 :cold:
11/05 not stated ??
01/06 :cold:
03/07 :cold:
11/07 all frozen :cold: :cold:
01/08 :cold:
07/08 not stated ??


Go to any web site where couples are trying to make babies and read the emotional horror stories of these women on hormones, hoping to produce an egg and hoping the egg is healthy enough to be used for fertilization and implantation. Their symptoms include hot flashes and sweating, severe nausea and vomiting, headaches, mood swings, breast pain, bloating, full breasts, difficulty sleeping, irritability, fatigue and pain at the injection site.

I can't imagine going to school or work and caring for many small children while facing the side effects of the drugs she had to use to stimulate her ovaries as many times as she used the drugs. Also studies show the more often the ovaries are stimulated, the lower the quality the eggs become.

These are the the side effects of the hormone he is accused of over using:

Failure to adequately monitor and adjust dosage can lead to a very serious condition, ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome. Kate G suffered from this the month the tups were conceived, she had to be hospitalized. This syndrome is characterized by ovarian enlargement, abdominal pain, abdominal distention, weight gain, circulatory problems, and often requires hospitalization. Other side effects can include: ovarian cysts, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal cramps. bloating, irritation at the injection site, and multiple births. Multiple births occur about 25% of the time. The incidence may be lower when the drug dosage is monitored by an experienced Reproductive Endocrinologist.

Had she not achieved the Octo-birth, was she just going to keep bringing home a new baby or two, every year until she was 80? or at least keep trying until she achieved a "super-birth"?

In late October 2005, NS used IVF, which would mean it was Nov 05 when she experienced a chemical pregnancy, which is a very early miscarriage and in Dec she was back on hormones and retrieval.

Nov 07 NS had retrieval but none were used, all were frozen. In Aug 2000, NS had IVF the document states the remaining embryo's were apparently frozen, the doc's sloppy books made it impossible for them to know for sure what became of the remaining embryos.

I keep seeing her smug face during early interviews, saying these frozen embryo's were her children. How the heck was she planning to use all of them? Are the stock piled reserves for the years to come when she no longer has the ability to ovulate eggs healthy enough to produce a pregnancy?

I was rather shocked when she admitted she had been able to procure 6 or 8 donations from a man who had no intentions of maintaining a relationship with her or the children. Using the documentation by the state, Octo would have needed a fresh sample 14 times!! Nov '07 she had a retrieval with a batch of embryo's frozen with no attempt to put any back into her uterus! Yet, Jan - Feb '08 she was back on hormones for more eggs, with no pregnancy achieved!

Would they have done a DNA study when her ex came forward claiming he had donated more than 1 time and was it the months when no pregnancy occurred which made her able to say positively he was not the dad?

Is it possible Dr K donated DNA for her pregnancies?

 

[Boyz_Mum]

LCoastMom, it's pretty scarey, isn't it?

I was curious about the donor sperm too.

Dr K and Nadya IMO are 2 peas in a pod. Both equally scheming.

 

[LCoastMom]

although pregnancies do occur from previously frozen embryos,it's the fresh embryos that have a higher implantation rate.once they're frozen,they tend to lose a little something...some of their 'omph',or sticking ability,so to speak.My guess is that Dr K was trying to up his % of pregnancies and births in order to pull in more business and $$.I recall reading he had a rather low late of success before this.

I think he used a new method on Nadya where the embryos are actually sewed into the lining.In other words...they had no choice but to 'take'.(although that doesn't mean she couldn't have miscarried some or all later).I'm guessing in that case,it wouldn't matter if they were frozen or not..they are going to cause a pregnancy,regardless.

BBM

According to one of the LA area specialists who was interviewed early on, Dr MK has the lowest success rates for achieving pregnancy in the county! And there are more fertility doctors in the greater LA area than just about anywhere in the US.

Multiple births are less common with frozen embryo cycles than with "fresh" embryo transfers.

In one of her interviews she slipped and said 8 were used. I wouldn't swear to it but I believe it was the "unseen footage" or an interview from around that time.

The number of embryo's returned varies with the desires of the patient and the return technique, under the guidelines of age categories; under 35 years old, up to three embryos; 35-40 years and older, up to four embryos. These are older numbers, correct when OM started treatment but no longer up to date when she got pregnant with the Octo's. (Octo was what 32 yrs old??)

Per State: in far excess of ASRM and reasonable judgment of any doc when using advanced stage embryo's, fewer should be used.

This number of using 2 or 3 embryo's is for those still in the 2 to 3 day dividing stage, when they are in the older 4 or 5 day stage, the implant number is one for younger women, 2 for older women. They are less likely to become a twin at this point. If you notice all of Nutty's were used at the 5 or 6 day mark.

The newest research is showing embryos that are "messed with" including having a cell removed for genetic testing or thawing out are less likely to take due to probable damage done to them in the lab. So they may have started out as good quality but end up being unlikely to continue dividing normally once implanted. I would surely imagine this would include his technique of somehow tying them down.

Nutty is hard to place on any curve of the average patient receiving ART. She was 21 the first time she showed up in his office which is very young to be thinking about being treated. So to say what her chances were for conceiving or conceiving multiples can't really be compared to their average patient. It now appears without a shadow of doubt to me, she was trying to have a HOM birth and she was going to keep trying until she got what she wanted. Regardless of the effects on her other kids or her own health even.

If you read all the dates closely, it appears to me after her 4th singleton she began amping up. #4 born in April and back to MK in 3 mos for treatment. Then returning when the twins were 2 or 3 mos old to try again!! Twins conceived 1/06 born 09 or 10/06, back to MK for treatment 01/07 with a neg pregnancy test 02-03/2007. Returned for a consult 08/2007.

Wondering if she saw other doctors during this time who turned her down? And was this the time frame Octo-gram was referring to when she said she begged the doc not to help her anymore. 11/07 treated but not used! all frozen! (Tried again early 2008) 01/08-02/08 neg preg, following IVF, R-Frozen.

05/08 consulted for MK's new "treatment". + pregnancy test following July treatment. Octo birth 01/09. So now that the embryo is out of the freezer so to speak and another year's worth of "storage fee's" she complained about last year. What is to become of the dozens of possible embryo's she has frozen???

Wasn't the trouble she kept returning to KP for fibroids? One of the side effects of fertility drugs is fibroids or causing fibroids already present to grow! Talk about the doctor causing her troubles by giving her higher doses of drugs!

Dates of treatment (>>) = drugs for ovary stimulation.

1997 first consult for treatment, wants to use donor sperm....

4/97, 11/98 2 unsuccessful IUI

5/99 ectopic following 1st IVF ''

7/00 (hormones with no eggs retrieved) hmmm? no male dna available or did she just have a less than stellar response to treatment the first time?

>>8/00-5/01 ds- remains frozen?

>>10/01-6/02 1 dd remains frozen

>>11/02-08/03 #2 ds RFrozen

12/03 to 01/04 consulted

>>07/04-04/05 #3ds (4th pregnancy) RFrozen

07/05 consulted - baby 4 just 3 mos old!!

>>10/05 -11/05 miscarried (does not mention remaining embryo's)

>>12/05 hormones started again

>>01/06 - 10/06- twins - dd & ds RFrozen

>>01/07-03/07 neg pregnancy no mention of remain

08/07 consult

>>11/07 all frozen!!

>> 01/08-02/08 neg preg, following IVF, R-Frozen

05/08 consulted

>>07/08--1/09

14 "donations" needed total

 

[LCoastMom]

LCoastMom, it's pretty scarey, isn't it?

I was curious about the donor sperm too.

Dr K and Nadya IMO are 2 peas in a pod. Both equally scheming .

It is crazy! Who would do what he has done? I loved the state saying "He is not board certified''... because I believe he was until they gave him the boot!! I am amazed and really pleased that the state is taking this very seriously!

Also, the fertility doc, after her story came out saying 'We don't play God, it is not up to us to say when she has enough kids."

The state NOW saying MK did not considered her prior children or her health when he kept treating her. That isn't playing God, it's using common sense!

If God wanted her to keep having babies, she wouldn't have needed a doctor to implant them in her womb!

 

[Boyz_Mum]

Since Dr K had a lower success rate than his 'peers', I am inclined to believe that Nadya was his 'test subject'. She was a willing participant, IMO. This one HOM birth would have most likely gained him many more clients than it did but with all the circumstances (Nadya's lack of health insurance, Nadya having 6 kids already, and all the other oddness) it didn't turn out to be nearly as 'fruitful' as either Nadya or Dr K had anticipated. This is JMO.

And what's the deal with that Christmas photo? Only the octos and Nadya as the 'first photo'? What about the other children? I feel really badly for them, they seem to be sort of ignored in the grand scheme of things?

One good thing I can say is that I am happy that the octos appear rather healthy. Things could have been much worse for them, healthwise.

 

[JMO8778]

Since Dr K had a lower success rate than his 'peers', I am inclined to believe that Nadya was his 'test subject'. She was a willing participant, IMO. This one HOM birth would have most likely gained him many more clients than it did but with all the circumstances (Nadya's lack of health insurance, Nadya having 6 kids already, and all the other oddness) it didn't turn out to be nearly as 'fruitful' as either Nadya or Dr K had anticipated. This is JMO.

I agree,and I wonder if he was paying her as well.It's been speculated that's where the money for all her plastic surg and lip treatments came from.

And what's the deal with that Christmas photo? Only the octos and Nadya as the 'first photo'? What about the other children? I feel really badly for them, they seem to be sort of ignored in the grand scheme of things?

indeed they do.I haven't seen parents of other multiples and siblings do that.

One good thing I can say is that I am happy that the octos appear rather healthy. Things could have been much worse for them, healthwise.

yes

 

[JMO8778]

I am amazed and really pleased that the state is taking this very seriously!

yes,it's about time! the tups are almost one yr old.I just wonder what took them so long,but I guess these kinds of investigations take time.

Also, the fertility doc, after her story came out saying 'We don't play God, it is not up to us to say when she has enough kids."

..and I saw Nadya awhile back saying Dr K should never have been punished,b/c based on her past history (of pregnancy rates) he did nothing wrong.WELL,that is not for her to say!He clearly went above the guidelines,plain and simple.

 

[JMO8778]

This is just the tip of the ice berg. Didn't Dr K have two more women that we know of who were pregnant with / delivered 4 babies each, last year?

I recall there was at a 49 yo he treated who was pregnant with quads.so he's certainly not above doing anything that might harm a pt or their children.

Interesting that she is sticking up for him, yet he tried to pawn off his mistakes / errors in judgement by saying he was doing as she asked. I guess he did so because he is such a nice guy?

I wonder if Nadya is ever going to become angry at him someday,and spill the beans about the whole mess.I speculate not though, since it would mean she would have to tell on herself as well.(Unless someone offers her a pretty penny for the truth?!).My other thought is he's still paying her to be quiet.

At her age a normal course of drugs to stimulate her ovaries to over produce should have theoretically produced 15 to 20 good quality eggs.

Being conservative lets say he retrieved 16 each time and used half. (Not adding any for the undocumented extra's)

By the documentation she stored excess eggs 7 times, all frozen 1 time, not stated two times. She could conceivably (no pun intended) have 8 eggs, 7 times, 16 eggs x1 for a total of 72 frozen embryo's. And I truly feel this is a low estimate. I also believe the state would not be using this particular charge against him if there were not a significant number of frozen embryo's or the lab had documented embryo's that were of poor quality.

09/00 :cold:
10/01 :cold:
12/02 :cold:
07/04 :cold:
11/05 not stated ??
01/06 :cold:
03/07 :cold:
11/07 all frozen :cold: :cold:
01/08 :cold:
07/08 not stated ??

is it even possible to retrieve that many eggs? I know women are born with several thousand,but only a select few of those are capable of becoming mature and then being released in a normal cycle.(or rather,approx. 12 per yr for every yr a woman has cycles.minus the months she is pregnant,and maybe a few more if she breastfeeds).
That said,she should surely be in menopause now,what with probably no viable eggs remaining inside her that can mature.

Go to any web site where couples are trying to make babies and read the emotional horror stories of these women on hormones, hoping to produce an egg and hoping the egg is healthy enough to be used for fertilization and implantation. Their symptoms include hot flashes and sweating, severe nausea and vomiting, headaches, mood swings, breast pain, bloating, full breasts, difficulty sleeping, irritability, fatigue and pain at the injection site.

I can't imagine going to school or work and caring for many small children while facing the side effects of the drugs she had to use to stimulate her ovaries as many times as she used the drugs. Also studies show the more often the ovaries are stimulated, the lower the quality the eggs become.

These are the the side effects of the hormone he is accused of over using:

Failure to adequately monitor and adjust dosage can lead to a very serious condition, ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome. Kate G suffered from this the month the tups were conceived, she had to be hospitalized. This syndrome is characterized by ovarian enlargement, abdominal pain, abdominal distention, weight gain, circulatory problems, and often requires hospitalization. Other side effects can include: ovarian cysts, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal cramps. bloating, irritation at the injection site, and multiple births. Multiple births occur about 25% of the time. The incidence may be lower when the drug dosage is monitored by an experienced Reproductive Endocrinologist.

that's why I think Dr K was paying her to come back,again and again.Not the other way around.

Had she not achieved the Octo-birth, was she just going to keep bringing home a new baby or two, every year until she was 80? or at least keep trying until she achieved a "super-birth"?

good question! I think it's a good thing she's gotten so much negative press over this,as she seems the type who would try to break another record,such as oldest women to give birth (seriously!)

Nov 07 NS had retrieval but none were used, all were frozen. In Aug 2000, NS had IVF the document states the remaining embryo's were apparently frozen, the doc's sloppy books made it impossible for them to know for sure what became of the remaining embryos.

possibly they were scheming for this back then,stockpiling embryos?

I keep seeing her smug face during early interviews, saying these frozen embryo's were her children. How the heck was she planning to use all of them? Are the stock piled reserves for the years to come when she no longer has the ability to ovulate eggs healthy enough to produce a pregnancy?

yep,obvious lie.

I was rather shocked when she admitted she had been able to procure 6 or 8 donations from a man who had no intentions of maintaining a relationship with her or the children. Using the documentation by the state, Octo would have needed a fresh sample 14 times!! Nov '07 she had a retrieval with a batch of embryo's frozen with no attempt to put any back into her uterus! Yet, Jan - Feb '08 she was back on hormones for more eggs, with no pregnancy achieved!

I recall her saying something about the father of the first 6 would come around,up until she got pregnant w the tups.huh?

Would they have done a DNA study when her ex came forward claiming he had donated more than 1 time and was it the months when no pregnancy occurred which made her able to say positively he was not the dad?

Is it possible Dr K donated DNA for her pregnancies?

possibly,and on the Dr issue,since we know it's been done before,(thinking of that clinic that happened at a few yrs ago,where the doc fathered the babies),that is the one thing that makes me think they will most likely do DNA tests on all the children.(IF they haven't been done already(?)) Would this info be kept private in CA, in the interest of the children,at least publicly? anyone know?

 

[JMO8778]

In one of her interviews she slipped and said 8 were used. I wouldn't swear to it but I believe it was the "unseen footage" or an interview from around that time.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009...main5207772.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody

 

[JMO8778]

from the above link,BBM:


Aug. 3, 2009
Regrets, Octomom Is Having a Few
Tells Us Weekly She's Having Second Thoughts About Having Had So Many Kids; Opens Up About Their Father


(CBS) Nadya Suleman says, knowing what she knows now, she'd have done things differently, rather than having had octuplets.

"Octomom" tells Us Weekly magazine she never thought all eight embryos that were implanted would "take." The result was eight kids in addition to the six young ones she already had.

Perhaps, suggests CBS News Correspondent Terrell Brown, misgivings began to set in during a media crush when she brought the first of the eight home from the hospital.

"Running the paparazzi gauntlet," Brown points out, "a panicked" Suleman called police, saying, "They're trying to break down the garage door. We pulled in here and they're swarming the whole area."

Hindsight is producing regrets, Suleman tells the magazine.

"She said from the beginning that it wasn't her intention to have eight children at once all along; and that's just the way the cards were dealt," Us Weekly Senior Editor Ian Drew told CBS News.

She also gave new details about their biological father, confirming that all 14 of her kids were conceived via invitro-fertilization, using the same sperm donor, someone she'd dated.

After having six children, Brown says, she reportedly asked the donor for help again, but he refused. Without his knowledge, she had doctors implant frozen embryos left over from the birth of her twins and didn't tell the donor about the pregnancy until a week before giving birth.

"She said that one of her great regrets is that, after having the kids, he is no longer part of their lives."

Perhaps most difficult for Suleman is trying to provide for all those little ones, Brown says. With $30,000 in monthly expenses, Suleman recently signed a deal to shoot a reality TV show, but so far, no network has signed on. And it's her constant search for a big payday that's brought charges that she's exploiting her kids and endangering their welfare.

"We wanted her to succeed," attorney Gloria Alred told "Early Show" co-anchor Harry Smith in March, after filing complaints with cild protection authorities. "But unfortunately, how can she be succeeding if she rarely comes in to even feed the babies, except when the (news) cameras are rolling?"

Suleman says she's also writing a memoir. And, just last week, a court appointed a guardian to make sure her kids' earnings from the TV series go to them and not Suleman.

© MMIX, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.

 

[Steely Dan]

By the documentation she stored excess eggs 7 times, all frozen 1 time, not stated two times. She could conceivably (no pun intended) have 8 eggs, 7 times, 16 eggs x1 for a total of 72 frozen embryo's. And I truly feel this is a low estimate. I also believe the state would not be using this particular charge against him if there were not a significant number of frozen embryo's or the lab had documented embryo's that were of poor quality.

I can't imagine going to school or work and caring for many small children while facing the side effects of the drugs she had to use to stimulate her ovaries as many times as she used the drugs. Also studies show the more often the ovaries are stimulated, the lower the quality the eggs become.

School is all she claimed to have gone to I believe. I wonder how many classes she skipped?

Is it possible Dr K donated DNA for her pregnancies?

Dear God, what kind of kid would result from that pairing? :loser:

I forsee a lot of jail time for her kids in the future. She has to be neglecting them all due to the sheer numbers. It's a shame that the state can't take those 8 kids away from her.

BBM

In one of her interviews she slipped and said 8 were used. I wouldn't swear to it but I believe it was the "unseen footage" or an interview from around that time.

I thought one of her kids said; "Ummmm, you said we did it for the show. :waitasec:

05/08 consulted for MK's new "treatment". + pregnancy test following July treatment. Octo birth 01/09. So now that the embryo is out of the freezer so to speak and another year's worth of "storage fee's" she complained about last year. What is to become of the dozens of possible embryo's she has frozen???

Could you imagine being a couple who finds out a mistake was made and you got one of that woman's eggs implanted in you?