Would the Govt response be different in NO.......

[bulletgirl2002]

I loved the news story about the man who found a school bus and keys and took it, loaded about 70 people on and drove them to the super dome. He is my hero and I bet to those 70 people and their families. God helps those who help themselves and others who cannot help themselves and he will be blessed. I bet he already has some good person in Houston who wants to hire him. He has one thing that you cannot teach an employee and that is character.

 

[Beyond Belief]

I loved the news story about the man who found a school bus and keys and took it, loaded about 70 people on and drove them to the super dome. He is my hero and I bet to those 70 people and their families. God helps those who help themselves and others who cannot help themselves and he will be blessed. I bet he already has some good person in Houston who wants to hire him. He has one thing that you cannot teach an employee and that is character.

I loved that story too. The other story was the man who took, I think it was 13 small children in a boat to safety. I never have heard about the safety of their mothers. How heartbreaking to have to separate from your small children.

 

[less0305]

j2mirish said: I meant by the US sitting in our homes, was just we are all so upset with the tragedy, that we want things to go perfectly -- ( you know that saying....armchair quarterbacks!) I am one of the first to shout the things about our government that I feel are wrong-- Maybe I just want to feel in the bottom of my heart, that this scenario was SOOOOO HUGE--- they did not even know where to begin- Again ..does that make this right--- absolutley not--- but does it mean it was intentional...I dont think so ---I live just miles north of where hurricane charlie hit last year-- it was a 4 also- but it did not have near the dimension of Katrina-- that was a year ago- and there are still piles of trash & debri-- I cant even begin to imagine taking on the cleanup of this nightmare-[/QUOTE]


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Can't anyone admit that we are human. We are fallible. Tragedies will happen. They happen over and over and over again. Hurricanes and tragedy are cyclical. It WILL happen again - in another generation. But for right now, can't we ALL agree that humans are fallible, they make mistakes, and if we were a perfect people nothing bad would ever happen.

Sure decisions may not have been made correctly - but c'mon this was a HUGE storm that people underestimated. It seems to me to be a collassal (sp) mingling of many, many factors - a huge storm, city below sea level, massive flooding, residents who either by choice or necessity who didn't leave, a very large part of the coastline obliterated (not just NO, but three states), massive efforts from many different entitities all crying out at once, no communication to work with (much less communicating in sync with all the other affected reas). It was just a mass collection of so many unfortunate events all at once.

We'll all learn something from this.....but in 60 or 70 years will those lessons we learned mean anything to the next generation for the next HUGE tragedy? No two storms will ever be the same. How can what happened here be expected to happen exactly the same way 60 years from now? It won't. Every single situation will require its own response and efforts. And in 60 or 70 years we will still be dealing with people....people who do make mistakes, do make errors in judgement, do underestimate the wrath of mother nature. It's inevitable.

I wouldn't want to be there. I wouldn't want to have been waiting days and days for water and food, but I have faith in my country. I have faith in my people. I have faith in my government. I refuse to believe that this failure means we are a bad country with a bad government. I have ALWAYS lived by two specific lines of thinking:

Everything happens for a reason (and we may never in our lifetime know the reason - but it happens to serve a purpose).

And

When it is your time to go, it is your time to go (either by hurricane, starvation, heart attack, motorcycle accident, cancer, tumor - whatever...when God calls your name, it is time to go. PC or not, I believe in a higher God).

If that sounds bad or harsh, I'm sorry.

 

[bulletgirl2002]

very good post and my sentiments exactly.

 

[Marthatex]

I loved the news story about the man who found a school bus and keys and took it, loaded about 70 people on and drove them to the super dome. He is my hero and I bet to those 70 people and their families. God helps those who help themselves and others who cannot help themselves and he will be blessed. I bet he already has some good person in Houston who wants to hire him. He has one thing that you cannot teach an employee and that is character.

Isn't that amazing! He's going to be a hero, written up in the magazines! He seemed like a great kid; calm. Life works in strange ways... or is it God works in strange ways...

The ones that make it out may find their lives the better in the future. Amazing Grace....

 

[less0305]

I've listened to the mayor beg for help from the government and it was very clear that he is feeling desperate. Maybe if the mayor and every other person who holds some kind of office had been white... help would have come before the 5th day.

And yet the MAYOR sent buses to collect tourists from the Hyatt and put them AHEAD of the line at the superdome to get them out. Tourists who were not dirty, hungry, and living in the cesspool of the dome for four days were taken out on buses BEFORE those less fortunate at the MAYOR'S direction.

 

[Beyond Belief]

Several nights ago there was an interview on with some tourists from one of the hotels who were held up in a timeshare. The story went that the hotel had hired some buses to move the hotel guests out. The buses were taken to use for some of the survivors leaving the tourists stranded. The tourists interviewed were from Scotland, they were hysterical with fear of the gangs roaming the streets. Is this the same group that were moved out ahead of everyone else? I don't know, but was just wondering if thats the reason these people were given a priority ride.

 

[Marthatex]

I agree with the goody who said it was more a matter of class than race. And not discrimination, but just INDIFFERENCE.

The Government knew, as we did, several days ahead that she was coming and might be at least category 3 or 4. Someone should have watching and putting everything into place - ready to go. Someone should have thought about ahead of time - how do the poor get out?

The response time should have been 1-2 days at the MOST; not 4-5 days. Where was FEMA; they were talking about it ahead of time?

These people were just left to fend for themselves; they're not all educated, they needed be told and explained why they needed to get out NOW. And provided the buses.

I am not a fatalist; I believe many tragedies can be averted. Others come by complete surprise, tho', and cannot.

 

[Dara]

Originally Posted by less0305
Can't anyone admit that we are human. We are fallible. Tragedies will happen. They happen over and over and over again. Hurricanes and tragedy are cyclical. It WILL happen again - in another generation. But for right now, can't we ALL agree that humans are fallible, they make mistakes, and if we were a perfect people nothing bad would ever happen.

So, we shouldn't ask questions, shouldn't try to learn. Shouldn't hold people accountable for their actions or lack thereof. Huge mistakes were made. Mistakes that were avoidable, and mistakes that would have ensured a pitiful response to even a much smaller scale distaster. As President Bush said, the response was "unacceptable." You justify it all you want. I won't.

And here's why I won't. Because if we yell and scream loud enough, maybe the people making decisions won't be incomptent. Maybe instead of a Michael Brown in charge, we'll have a Rudy Guiliani.

It was just a mass collection of so many unfortunate events all at once.

Which were predictable. That's documented all over this board. THey knew the levees could break, they knew a Cat 4 would flood the city, they knew. There's a great post in the Political Pavilion that tracks some critical decisions/events.

When it is your time to go, it is your time to go (either by hurricane, starvation, heart attack, motorcycle accident, cancer, tumor - whatever...when God calls your name, it is time to go. PC or not, I believe in a higher God).

I'm sure that's a big consolation to the parents who watched their babies die of dehydration because of the governments failure to do its job.

If that sounds bad or harsh, I'm sorry.

Well, to me, not so much harsh as uninformed, callous, and simplistic.

imo.

 

[Dara]

And yet the MAYOR sent buses to collect tourists from the Hyatt and put them AHEAD of the line at the superdome to get them out. Tourists who were not dirty, hungry, and living in the cesspool of the dome for four days were taken out on buses BEFORE those less fortunate at the MAYOR'S direction.

Well, based on your earlier post, the mayor is just fallible and human and all of that happened for a reason.

 

[CyberLaw]

I read an article today and some of the thing that it pointed out was interesting and telling.

Many people had no way out of the city. These people were not part of GB base. Which is you know is the white, affluent people. The poor, single Moms, blacks, elderly, sick, those without a car are not existing in GB eyes. Oh he knows they are there(I think)but does not acknoledge them.......

Bush got $ for Iraq real quick, but not this human diaster. I wonder what was more important to him. Do your Geograpy Bush, 1/3 of the USA oil comes from the Gulf. Oh yeah, you are not too bright. Even though if he knew this, he probably would have said OIL, get people together, I need billions of dollars to protect the Gulf OIL. Some one will TRY to point out that PEOPLE come before OIL. But oh yeah, these people are not the base of GB. When the person says "GB you have to save the People, or it will seems that you put oil before people and that is not good PR." GB will put his hands over his ears and say: "I can't hear you, la da da da, da da. I am not hearing you....."

In every society you are going to get the "dregs", they exist upon us without a crisis. These are the theives and "criminals". Honest people will take only what is needed for survival and try to help their neighbours. The dregs will prey upon people, like they would have had it there was not a Hurricane.

The second wave of Hell was after the Hurricane. That is when people thought "oh good" I am alive. I doubt they thought "oh god how am I going to stay alive, does anyone know this happened to us, if they do know, where is the help to survive the afermath..........surviving the Hurricane now seems the least of their problems, staying alive if first and foremost.

I would have looted, the necitties, food, water to ensure my family would survive the second Hell on Earth. Hopefull.......if we were in the city, I would arm myself(as a Canadian I am big time anti gun)but.......this is not a civilized city with a police force, I have to depend on myself. I would probably end up shooting my self in the foot though.......

This is what GB is concerned with these days......the elimination of ESTATE TAX, so the 20K of people who have $$$$$$$$, can pass on that money to heirs wihout taxes. This will ensure that 1.5 billion dollars is not public money anymore.......but stays private within the "wealthy" estate. This is the "base" that GB was talking about.......

But people are dying in the streets of "Hell on Earth" due to lack of food and water......

No matter how you play it, most people are taking a "racial" stance on this view.....I know last night the news in my City did and it seems to be the norm.

I am beyond disgusted.....as everyone is.......this is the USA for god sake, not a third world country........but people are dying of third world causes.....I never thought that I would live to see this happen to our neighbour to the South.

 

[less0305]

Well, based on your earlier post, the mayor is just fallible and human and all of that happened for a reason.

Yep, he is. And the reasons may not be revealed to us - except to realize that everyone is capable of making erroneous decisions from the Mayor to the Governor to the President....to the folks who could very obviously see that there were other people in worse need of leaving the city, but still stepped in front of them and took a seat that might have been better given to someone else. There is enough fault to go around was my only point.

 

[less0305]

Dara said: "So, we shouldn't ask questions, shouldn't try to learn. Shouldn't hold people accountable for their actions or lack thereof. Huge mistakes were made. Mistakes that were avoidable, and mistakes that would have ensured a pitiful response to even a much smaller scale distaster. As President Bush said, the response was "unacceptable." You justify it all you want. I won't.

And here's why I won't. Because if we yell and scream loud enough, maybe the people making decisions won't be incomptent. Maybe instead of a Michael Brown in charge, we'll have a Rudy Guiliani."

I never said we shouldn't ask questions. I'm asking questions. I never said we shouldn't learn. I said we'll learn, but future generations will make mistakes - we're human.

And yell and scream all you want (I'm yelling, screaming, and crying also) - but human nature is to constantly find blame and finger point and people who will love Rudy....and people who won't. There was lots and lots of people who professed their hate for Rudy after 9/11.

Dara said: "Which were predictable. That's documented all over this board. THey knew the levees could break, they knew a Cat 4 would flood the city, they knew. There's a great post in the Political Pavilion that tracks some critical decisions/events."

Yes, it was predictable. But did anyone predict that the cities of Biloxi, Gulfport, Waveland, and cities as far as Alabama would be blown off the face of the map at the exact same time? The country will never be ready for mass destruction. It can be said it's predictable that a meteor will someday hit the face of the earth....does that mean everyone will be ready to handle the devastation and be able to provide exactly what is needed at the exact moment it is provided? No. I'm only saying that we can't plan out every disaster to the nth degree and have every answer at the moment it occurs. Yeah, we're willing to learn from each event and try to do better. I'm sure we're doing better than they did in 1900 or 1901 when the hurricane struck Galveston. But Galveston wasn't a bowl below sea level either. So things are always going to be different depending on what happens, when, and where.

Dara said: "I'm sure that's a big consolation to the parents who watched their babies die of dehydration because of the governments failure to do its job."

I wouldn't have sat there for four days and let my baby die. I'd have walked my somewhere - if I'd have had to walk for four days. My baby wouldn't have died in my arms while I sat and waited for someone to come.

Dara said: "Well, to me, not so much harsh as uninformed, callous, and simplistic."

I'm not uninformed, callous, or simplistic, thank you. I don't think it's uninformed to say you can look at history and see human tragedy. You can look at history and see loss of lives. You can look at history and see human fallacy. It's not uninformed or callous to say it has happened in the past....it will happen in the future. It's incredibly sad - the loss of any life by means of devastation is sad. I feel an incredible sadness and helplessness - just like I'm sure you do. It's unfair of you to say I'm callous when you have no idea where I've come from....what I've been through....and how I contribute what I have and what I can do for my fellow human beings.

 

[Dara]

I wouldn't have sat there for four days and let my baby die. I'd have walked my somewhere - if I'd have had to walk for four days. My baby wouldn't have died in my arms while I sat and waited for someone to come.

Uh huh. Guess the roving gangs of gun-wielding thugs would just cower at your bravery and will. So, I guess according to you, it's the parents' fault that the babies died. Or God's.

 

[aussieblue]

NOT ALL tourists, we have over 40 still trapped in NO and the stories we are getting by the 6 who have just been rescued by our own media are quiet disturbing.

1 female aussie tourist is trapped in a church with 2 elderly people she found and helped. The elderly people had been left/abandoned by their careers. They are in wheelchairs and this young aussie got through to her mum (phone) here in aussieland and she said they cant get to the roof BUT she told her mum she cant leave them there to die. The church is surrounded by water.
Her mum was on tv and she is totally distraught, our aussie officials have been contacted and they have contacted yours BUT yours said nothing can be done yet to help.

We also, on our tv watched the rescue of the aussies from near the convention centre. It was our own media (channel 7 i think) that got in there and organised their rescue. These aussies said they could not go anywhere near where large groups where as they had been shot at and attacked. They where chased out of/away from the center. They said we were the minority it was terrifying.
They where helped into a hiding place near the center by a family of African/Americans. These people smuggled water to them 2 days ago (4 bottles for 6 people). The aussies just kept thanking that family and kept saying to the media guys “get help for all these people please, tell everyone how bad it is here”.

Also mentioned was how they witnessed rapes. The screaming of a young girl being dragged out of a building and being raped by a pack of men. The aussie lady broke down badly, she couldn’t talk about it, one of the guys said total animals, some of these people are total animals, how can you do that to children. He broke down too. I broke down too just watching it.

Its just sickening what they are saying about what is going on there.
The media guys did well to get them out, an African/American police officer helped them and it showed the guns they had been given to use if they were attacked. They got it all on film and apparently your people (officials) aren’t happy about it.

So please do not believe that tourists are getting special treatment as they are not ACTUALLY some are getting worse treatment as they can not even get to water or any supplies. I wont post some of the things that has been said by those rescued as people will jump and say I’m stirring the pot BUT this racism thing is going both ways as 1 of the guys said they were chased and being told what they were going to do to the “white” woman, well I think you can guess the rest to that.

Now even though that happened the aussies said “get help to these people”, so please don’t think they were criticizing or blaming all African/Americans because they weren’t.

But boy oh boy they were criticizing your officials.

Here are some earlier links ...

Officials refused access to stranded Australians

Australian consular officials are being kept away from New Orleans at the insistence of US authorities.
The Foreign Affairs Minister Alexander Downer says US authorities do not want foreign officials in the city until order is restored in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

Mr Downer says he understands a television crew from Australia and a British newspaper have assisted Australians in leaving the city but the well-being of up to 40 others remains unconfirmed.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1452548.htm

While Australia's diplomats remain locked out of New Orleans, a Seven Network television news crew has driven six Australians out of the city.
Among them was Queensland couple Tim and Joanne Miller, from Rockhampton, whose daughter Tamara said her parents were rescued "no thanks to the Australian government".

"Obviously, we now know who really does have the power these days. It's definitely not the Australian government, it's the press," she said.
The Millers were forced to sleep under a bridge in the city's warehouse district for several days.

Mr Downer questioned why the media could get into New Orleans, but not Australian officials.

"We've said, well, if the media can go in, why can't government officials go in, and we might more easily be able to round up the Australians and get them out," he said

"And (the US government is) insistent that it's their responsibility, the Americans' responsibility to take everybody out."

http://news.ninemsn.com/article.aspx?id=59641


~aussieblue

 

[Dara]

aussieblue, thank you! I am still reading your post and will check out links, but one thing you said made me almost weak with relief:

They got it all on film and apparently your people (officials) aren’t happy about it.

We need any true record we have of this disaster.

 

[less0305]

[/color]
Uh huh. Guess the roving gangs of gun-wielding thugs would just cower at your bravery and will. So, I guess according to you, it's the parents' fault that the babies died. Or God's.

Good grief......

I appreciate your comments. Thanks for the healthy debate. Have a good day.

 

[Beyond Belief]

Geraldo is showing film of the last of the folks being taken to the airport, he is saying that its almost over for the abandoned. I should not use the word over, but their rescue from the convention center. This will never be over for those who suffered.

 

[bulletgirl2002]

NOT ALL tourists, we have over 40 still trapped in NO and the stories we are getting by the 6 who have just been rescued by our own media are quiet disturbing.

Officials refused access to stranded Australians

http://news.ninemsn.com/article.aspx?id=59641


~aussieblue

But there are so many others too....I understand your concern for your own people, but I don't think they should be gotten out ahead of the others who live there. They are in just as much danger as the tourists.

 

[kgeaux]

Isn't that amazing! He's going to be a hero, written up in the magazines! He seemed like a great kid; calm. Life works in strange ways... or is it God works in strange ways...

The ones that make it out may find their lives the better in the future. Amazing Grace....

I am praying that God will richly bless this young man. What a heart he has! I loved it when Greta asked him what do you say to the people you picked up when you see them in the AstroDome and he said "I tell them I love them." Wow. I hope this young man has the BEST life, that every good thing comes to him!